AT&T Dumps VOIP Customers

Proudrooster writes "In the past two weeks AT&T has sent out disconnect letters to VOIP customers in big rude red letters, stating that VOIP service will be suspended in 30 days and permanently disconnected in 60 days. They cited E911 service as the reason. (It is peculiar that AT&T is unable overcome an E911 technical hurdle, since SBC/AT&T is also the local landline company in many areas where VOIP cancellation notices are being received.) Many AT&T VOIP customers have found that they are unable to transfer their phone numbers to a new provider. Further, AT&T is unwilling to set up a forwarding message directing callers to a new phone number for those who are unable to transfer their old numbers. In effect, AT&T has told many long-term VOIP subscribers: 'We are turning off your phone in 30 days, goodbye.'"

Re:Can't We

[rec9140]

911 is more than just a fowarding number on the POTS side of things.

When you dial 911 or *something on your cell phone that is simply a forwarded number to a regular POTS line at the PSAP.

If and ONLY IF your carrier and the local PSAP are setup for wireless 911 does a 911 call get routed similar to a regular 911 call which then provides info like the cell site and an ESTIMATED ADDRESS its not exact and this level of cellular 911 is available to a very small area.

911 on POTS is not a forwarded number its routed special and it comes in on 911 trunks, NOT on regular lines. This will help to understand the 911 process:
http://contact.bellsouth.com/email/bbs/phase2/how9 11works.html [bellsouth.com]

As for VOIP and 911 thanks to voncrap and the hordes of non technical users VOIP is now saddled with this issue. Plain and simple there should big huge warnings when signing up that 911 and emergency calling are not supported YOU the CUSTOMER need to make plans to deal with this by 1) Keeping a basic POTS line 2) Having a cell phone 3) Take your safety into your own hands and be prepared

Re:The Rape of Ma Bell

[packeteer]

Name one industry where the price of entry is so high that a company can have a true monopoly. The phone company is about as close as it gets because they rely on laying down expensive lines over public land that needs clearance from different organizations.

Takin the bait Re:The Phone Company DOES care!

[cdn-programmer]

1) we exchanged names. I know who he is. I have not mentioned names.

2) I back up the bills paid with paper work.

3) They had from February 2006 until Nov 2006 to fix the bill. They didn't do it. I complained every month.

4) My answering service has not been running from Nov 2006 until now.

5) They have my phone # my fax # and my email address(s). I am easy to get ahold of. I do not put people on hold.

6) I usually pay my bills before the due date. I walk over to the bank which is within about 2 blocks once or twice a month. I take my bills due over the next couple weeks with me and pay them.

Your interpretation is posted for the world to view. If it goes to court you can get transcripts.

(short form)

I did nothing wrong here. I am illustrating in a fashion that does not expose the management of any firms what the issues are. I do not know if the CEO of the firm in question reads /. I suspect many of their technical staff do read /.

I do think that many people might look at several strategies required to deal with the issues and I have posted elsewhere in this thread comments on what the companies are facing... which is perhaps a death sentence... but I won't go that far.

From your comments I would also conclude that you have not been in court as often as I have. If so... then I recommend you avoid court. To get $10 bux out be prepared to put $100 in. You have to convince the judge and these people are very experienced. You have to choose the correct side. If you plan on going to court then you better be prepared to back up what you say.

Re:The Rape of Ma Bell

[ScrewMaster]

It wasn't illegal. People try to compare it to, say, Microsoft ... but it's Apples to Oranges. AT&T was a government instituted monopoly, granted to AT&T in exchange for their following some strict regulations and providing service for all. Which, I might add, by and large they did, and did very well. We had the most reliable phone system on the planet.

What we really needed was to have the lock on subscriber equipment broken, so I could go out and buy a phone from a third party rather than being forced to rent it from AT&T. Judge Green overshot the mark when he broke up old AT&T. The result of his decision turned the telecom industry into a free for all which (predictably) resulted in the gradual coalescing of AT&T and the old Baby Bells back into the original giant, but without the original regulatory controls and quality-of-service standards.

All in all, not really a good thing. The court also failed to understand that competition was coming whether AT&T wanted it or not.

A good way to screw with them

[Anonymous Coward]

When they call, say "I do not give you permission to tape this call".

That befuddles them for a good 3 minutes when you get them to turn off the machine.

Then when they tell you that they're going to do the same thing that they said last time but didn't, ask them this key question:

    "If you've tried to do this 3 times and it didn't work, what will you try differently this time?"

And be insistent if they can't give you an answer.

It's a good question, one they can never really resolve properly. It pisses them off, because the question basically calls the service rep an idiot, but it's so polite they can't really get mad.

Then insist everything be sent via FedEx overnight because you can rightly claim they're either lying or incompetent when they claim to have sent you the documents 3 times, claiming it was "lost" every time.

Finally, after it's resolved, and you pay the final bill, pay about $1.05 more than the bill. Then just let them send you bills forever, burning up 40 cents each time.

Then after they've done this for a few years, call and ask them for a check.

Look, people say "don't screw with the reps, they're only doing their job", but the truth is the company uses reps as a shield to not provide good service. It sucks to screw with these people, but it's not the customer's fault. It's the company's fault, as they provide poor service and expect polite people to just calmly sit by and not take the bull by the horns.

I had a problem with fake charges on my credit card, I saw them in real time happening, and the company steadfastly refused to do anything about it, despite calls, multiple registered letters, 13-14 conversations. The only way I got it was to figure out the desk number of one customer rep and basically call her repeatedly until she did something to get it fixed. When she put me on hold, I'd hang up and call her right back. I was the customer from hell. I felt bad for her, but on the other hand, the company had set up a system whereby they would just claim to be "working on it" for months meanwhile still billing you for charges that are false. Sucked to be her that week, but it got done. Nobody really wants to be a jerk, but companies force you into it and then throw the customer reps under the bus. I guess that's how you make big money in big business.

IPv6, Fixed Addresses, Wiretapping

[billstewart]

Unfortunately, "Fixed Addresses" are one of the IPv6 features that might or might not happen, because the reasons for using or not using them are the same as in IPv4 (though that doesn't really address whether you need to use servers or how easy it is to do wiretapping.) The main reasons broadband carriers prefer dynamic addresses and charge more for static are

• Customers don't have to configure their PCs or firewall routers for IP addresses if they use DHCP, and they can just plug the stuff in and have it work, so you cut down on installer technician work and help desk handholding work. In the IPv6 world, there are mechanisms for autoconfiguring your host number (e.g. use 0000+MACaddress) but they still require either configuring your /64 etc. network number into your router or else using some other kind of server, so the problems are pretty similar, and the handholding is more complex because IPv6 gives you more options.
• Some carriers really like PPPoE, because it makes it easier for them to correlate network connections with billing and shut you off if you haven't paid them or they catch you spamming. This is more of an issue for cable companies than DSL, since most DSL is ATM-based, which makes it pretty easy to do the same things at Layer 2.
• Customers who want static addresses are usually willing to pay more, and if you're willing to pay more, carriers absolutely want to charge you more. This is especially true for people who want static addresses so they can use business VPNs, because the carriers perceive they can get you to pay more since it's for business.
• US cable modem companies developed an early fear of customers running servers, because they were worried about perceived performance, and they didn't have the technical capability for rate-limiting individual users - they were especially worried that some customer might by running a pr0n server at home that used up the upstream performance of their whole neighborhood. The telco DSL servers exacerbated this fear by running the "Web Hog" TV commercials, which were dishonest but effective.
  

But even if you've got a fixed IP address with IPv6, you're less likely to communicate it to somebody by printing it on your business card and handing it to them than you were with your IPv4 address - you're probably going to use a presence server of some kind (whether it's SIP or something proprietary like Skype), or at least a DNS server ([e-mail]), or email it to them, and all of those mechanisms introduce potential vulnerabilities if you're not careful with them. 128-bit end-to-end encryption is enough to keep anybody from breaking into your phone call, so the obvious attack methods are to get you to relay the voice channel through somewhere, or else relay the key exchange through somewhere that can be cracked.