linux pickle writes "Mozilla has released version 0.5 of Sunbird, its calendar app. New features in this release include numerous stability and usage improvements, Google Calendar synchronization support, and much improved printing support. Check out the release notes or grab a copy."
I'm looking for a way to give my Exchange server a toss (because I hate Exchange *and* because I'm stuck with running it on Windows SBS 2003). How close is Thunderbird/Sunbird to the point where I can go to my manager and make the pitch?
The big thing my organization needs Exchange for is shared calendaring and event management. I find Exchange's address books hokey, and am going to be setting up an LDAP server to manage that anyways. Basic isn't bad, in my opinion.
Take a look at Xandros server which has Scalix groupware and an Active Directory to LDAP migration wizard.It also brags (although I haven't personally tried it yet) that it connects seemlessly to Outlook clients.If you are wanting to replace your Windows server,it would be the way I'd go.Also has Xen built-in and the license allows for unlimited virtual machines on the server.
Although I've only recently started using their server,so far it seems as rock solid as their business and home desktop OS products
I've actually tested Zimbra in my environment.. Currently we use Eudora for Pop3 and Oracle Calendar. The biggest problem I have with much of the "open source" groupware is that it is Browser only. (zimbra has an offline client that is a resource PIG). For my traveling users, they are not always connected to a network. They still need to be able to lookup when/where their next appointment is. I am planning on moving everyone to Thunderbird/IMAP for email, and would absolutely love to use an opensource
Unfortunately, you won't find much to read there. The documentation is horrible and there is literally nothing on that website that explains how the system works, only the feature set. But absolutely NONE of the featureset is explained in detail.
Short of setting up your own server with the software and spending a ton of time, you probably will not get any answers on what works with that system. Also, after lots of research, the synCML plugin for lightning is no longer supported because the mozilla calendar a
Nope, tried it at mine. Lightning (a must if you are going to be using Thunderbird in the work place) missing decent native shared calendaring support. This is big stopper. But if you have users that do not require it, go for it. I've rolled it out for our laptop users, i.e users not connected to the exchange server..
Lightning/Sunbird do support shared calendaring. Use either WebDAV or FTP to host it and install it on the client as a remote calendar (whatever it's called). Writing is supported.
If you want to dump exchange, though, go with Scalix. The Community Edition is free for 25 users, though when you get above that it's not cheap. Still, it does everything Exchange does, runs on Linux, provides an excellent web client, full integration with Outlook via a plug-in, and full integration with Evolution via a plug-
I'm sorry to report that Thunderbird/Sunbird is nowhere near ready to replace Exchange. Depending on your needs, it might be a good fit though.
They would be far closer to replacing exchange if they supported Exchange. The Evolution Exchange plugin has been open sourced for ages now, porting it the cross platform Thunderbird and Sunbird would make the suite hugely more attractive to enterprises locked into MS Office for their client software.
I imagine it would also make it an attractive target for Microsoft patent lawyers.
I see. So tell me, what open source projects have been the target of Microsoft patent lawsuits to date? And exactly which patents are you talking about? Microsoft doesn't seem to want to disclose this information, so if you have any insight I'm sure we'd be all ears.
Given that Exchange is a service on a server and Sunbird is a calendar client, I would say your right. Sunbird will never replace Exchange. But it could replace outlook;)
You should consider SurgeMail. I did away with Exchange for 200+ users using it. To the users it was transparent. They weren't using some of the core functions of Exchange anyway so it was worthless to me. After showing them how things worked, give or take a month and a half of "teach the idjit/PEBKAC (l)users", all was well and it offered the same level of functionality of Exchange. Only a couple thousand dollars cheaper.
What you probably need for an Exchange replacement is something that supports CalDAV. iCal in Leopard will, and it's on the Sunbird roadmap, but I don't think it's in this release. Novell's Hula also supports CalDAV, and might be an option.
Im thinking of replacing the toilet in my bathroom, how close is BMW to making a 325 that can fill that need? Exchange is a messaging and collaboration server, Thuderbird and Sunbird are user applications.
...because it couldn't when I last used it in March. Seriously, I tried to organize my SXSW schedule using Sunbird. 1. I added all playings of all movies at SXSW Film that I wanted to see into the SXSW online calendar. 2. Then, I sync'd Sunbird to the online calendar. 3. So that I could make local edits, I exported/reimported the calendar data as a local calendar. 4. I looked at conflicts, etc., and determined which movies I could see on first showing versus catching reruns. 5. When I had it about half done, I sa
by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday June 28 2007, @12:02PM (#19677831)
Is a combined / integrated application that incorporated Firefox, Thunderbird and this Sunbird... that each part could be run separately if you wished.
It could save on the download because each part would share the UI code, networking code, etc, given that they're all built upon a custom platform layer, and each download replicates that.
what you're describing sounds a lot like what they wanted to do with XUL Runner. Each mozilla app could be packaged as a plugin for XUL Runner. So, you would have XUL Runner installed and then you could just download and install the firefox plugin, the thunderbird plugin, the sunbird plugin, etc... They had scheduled this for firefox 3, but it looks like it's not going to happen at least for now.
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/archives/2 007/05/xul_and_xulrunner_investment.html [mozillazine.org]
If you are dedicated it's possible to pull your appointments from an exchange server, covert to iCal, and then import them into Sunbird.
I still prefer KOrganiser, not least because it has an exchange plug in [kde.org]. Integration with the mail client is also better in my opinion.
In fact Kontact is overall a fantastic piece of software. My only gripe is the fact that it's handling of IMAP mailboxes is horrific, but I believe that is slated for a total revamp in KDE4.
Re-posting under my login vs my first AC post:
With this latest announcement of Google Calendar Sync ability this opens up the option of getting my Outlook at work to sync up with my Sunbird at home on my Mac OS X desktop via a couple of hops.
1. Outlook PC at work to ScheduleWorld.com using a Funambol client to extract from Outlook.
2. ScheduleWorld.com to Google Calendar via ScheduleWorld's Google sync ability. You can make step #2 automatic by enabling this in the preferences of your ScheduleWorld (fr
I would *love* to use it- but without Exchange calendaring support, it will be effectively a non starter for me and for thousands of other geeks out there who would love to use Thunderbird as their primary mail client at work.
Please use your influence as a Microsoft customer to get them to add CalDAV support to Exchange, in the spirit of cooperation and interoperability. Does anybody know if the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is looking to standards for their calendering systems as well?
by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday June 28 2007, @01:01PM (#19678679)
Screw Exchange. Exchange support is the last thing in the world that the Sunbird team should be working on. The whole point of this project should be to get people to *stop* using Exchange.
Then you better bring to the table the features that Exchange has that folks want. There is no good central calendar sharing server software in the OSS world that can do what Exchange can and integrates everything together with email. It simply doesn't exist, so folks won't migrate for that reason.
A good first step in moving would be to integrate your client so that it can use exchange until an OSS exchange server replacement is made. That's what the grandparent wanted, and it's a very reasonable request.
The vast masses aren't going to migrate away from MS based on principle. They want things that work. You aren't going to break the hegemony until you provide them with something that works as well. Sunbird isn't there yet. Not by a long shot.
Sunbird doesn't need to work with Exchange. What we need is a Exchange server replacement that will work with Outlook and Sunbird. It is easier to migrate a single server than a thousand clients. Once you have a server that that supports Sunbird "and Sunbird+Thunderbird can do everything Outlook can" it will be easy to migrate people off of Outlook.
This should be the number one priority for the Sunbird team, if it's not already working (anyone have info on this?). Apple will have iCal 2 out with Mac OS X v10.5 in October, and the iCal Server with Mac OS X Server v10.5. Darwin Calendar Server is available for testing [calendarserver.org] on Mac OS X v10.4, and should also run on any UNIX-like system.
I've been using Sunbird for a while now as my sole calendaring app for my tech. consulting business. It's been great, given a bug here and there (but who doesn't encounter bugs in OL/Exchange?). I've also installed it as a Webdav shared calendar for one of my clients, and they love it too. Never had a problem with it, save the timezone issue a while back (but who didn't have issues with that?) Now the events in Sunbird 0.5 are shadowed, looks much nicer. Thanks guys!!
I do love this programme, it ties together all the nonsense that I have / am forced to use so that I know what I'm doing... * my own iBook, running iCal
* iPod sync'ed off of iCal
* Novell Groupwise at work, on both company Dell laptop and desktop
* Windows Mobile 2003 PIM thing as my work mobile phone
And what runs on everything? The open source stuff, running on many platforms and generating files to import for everything. No agenda as to 'doesn't import / export files for other platforms'. Cracking interfa
I was the first one to download Sunbird 0.0.1alpha and try it out, and even use its integration with iCal resources. But it was crashy, and the features it had were flaky. I'm sure they've improved matters since then. But I'm not gonna use it now, because I've found Google Calendar. SMS support alone is worth the switch. It also has contacts integration so I can invite people to meetings from my contact list, and it has an upsell story: You can run Google Apps for Domains and get the PIM/Groupware featur
Syncing with google calendar is the most profound new feature to me. Having a calendar stored on one computer is no good to someone who moves between several computers. This is the same reason I use IMAP email, store my sent emails on the IMAP server so I can read even them from whereever I am, and why I DONT use gmail: because it doesnt support IMAP.
Off topic: anyone hear any rumors about gmail supporting IMAP?
Should have looked before I posted. Bidirectional access to Google Calendar from Sunbird is possible with the Provider for Google Calendar extension [mozilla.org]...
Umm, I don't know who modded the parent troll, but let's be honest, when the story's went for nearly five minutes with nothing but this post, he might actually be right. Just sayin'.
I'm a bit busy right now. Cheney asked me to come back home for a nooner, and thought I would love to discuss this proposition, I cannot sit down right now. Perhaps some other time?
Lightning [mozilla.org] is the Thunderbird extension that provides the same capabilities as Sunbird. It supports iMIP and other email invitation formats. It also has a Provider for Google Calendar Extension [mozilla.org] .
Lightning Is Released, Too (Score:5, Informative)
Update as usual: Tools > Add-ons > Find Updates
Great work, guys!
Question (Score:3)
I'm Sorry (Score:5, Informative)
I'd say download it and try it out. If it's too basic for your needs, and it probably is, then look at some of the open source groupware packages.
There's some neat open source groupware out there.
Parent
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Although I've only recently started using their server,so far it seems as rock solid as their business and home desktop OS products
That feature is key. (Score:2)
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The documentation is horrible and there is literally nothing on that website that explains how the system works, only the feature set. But absolutely NONE of the featureset is explained in detail.
Short of setting up your own server with the software and spending a ton of time, you probably will not get any answers on what works with that system. Also, after lots of research, the synCML plugin for lightning is no longer supported because the mozilla calendar a
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Nope, tried it at mine. Lightning (a must if you are going to be using Thunderbird in the work place) missing decent native shared calendaring support. This is big stopper. But if you have users that do not require it, go for it. I've rolled it out for our laptop users, i.e users not connected to the exchange server..
Lightning/Sunbird do support shared calendaring. Use either WebDAV or FTP to host it and install it on the client as a remote calendar (whatever it's called). Writing is supported.
If you want to dump exchange, though, go with Scalix. The Community Edition is free for 25 users, though when you get above that it's not cheap. Still, it does everything Exchange does, runs on Linux, provides an excellent web client, full integration with Outlook via a plug-in, and full integration with Evolution via a plug-
Re:I'm Sorry (Score:5, Insightful)
They would be far closer to replacing exchange if they supported Exchange. The Evolution Exchange plugin has been open sourced for ages now, porting it the cross platform Thunderbird and Sunbird would make the suite hugely more attractive to enterprises locked into MS Office for their client software.
Parent
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I see. So tell me, what open source projects have been the target of Microsoft patent lawsuits to date? And exactly which patents are you talking about? Microsoft doesn't seem to want to disclose this information, so if you have any insight I'm sure we'd be all ears.
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"The PHP Scalability Myth"
http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2003/10/15/php
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Can it now track events, listed by date and time? (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, I tried to organize my SXSW schedule using Sunbird.
1. I added all playings of all movies at SXSW Film that I wanted to see into the SXSW online calendar.
2. Then, I sync'd Sunbird to the online calendar.
3. So that I could make local edits, I exported/reimported the calendar data as a local calendar.
4. I looked at conflicts, etc., and determined which movies I could see on first showing versus catching reruns.
5. When I had it about half done, I sa
What would be cool ... (Score:5, Funny)
It could save on the download because each part would share the UI code, networking code, etc, given that they're all built upon a custom platform layer, and each download replicates that.
Ah well, I'm sure it will never happen.
Re:What would be cool ... (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:What would be cool ... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/ [mozilla.org]
I know you know this exists, but it's polite to include a URL when you're sassing someone who doesn't.
Parent
sounds like the XUL Runner idea (Score:2, Informative)
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/archives/2 007/05/xul_and_xulrunner_investment.html [mozillazine.org]
Getting off topic
Can sync (sort of) with exchange (Score:5, Informative)
I still prefer KOrganiser, not least because it has an exchange plug in [kde.org]. Integration with the mail client is also better in my opinion.
In fact Kontact is overall a fantastic piece of software. My only gripe is the fact that it's handling of IMAP mailboxes is horrific, but I believe that is slated for a total revamp in KDE4.
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How do you pull your appointments from an exchange server?
Re:Can sync (sort of) with exchange (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
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Re:Can sync (sort of) with exchange (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, but in order to be that dedicated you would first have to be committed... To a to a highly secure facility for the chronically insane
Parent
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With this latest announcement of Google Calendar Sync ability this opens up the option of getting my Outlook at work to sync up with my Sunbird at home on my Mac OS X desktop via a couple of hops.
1. Outlook PC at work to ScheduleWorld.com using a Funambol client to extract from Outlook.
2. ScheduleWorld.com to Google Calendar via ScheduleWorld's Google sync ability. You can make step #2 automatic by enabling this in the preferences of your ScheduleWorld (fr
Screenshots (Score:2, Informative)
Exchange Required (Score:5, Insightful)
Please Fix It (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Exchange Required (Score:5, Insightful)
Then you better bring to the table the features that Exchange has that folks want. There is no good central calendar sharing server software in the OSS world that can do what Exchange can and integrates everything together with email. It simply doesn't exist, so folks won't migrate for that reason.
A good first step in moving would be to integrate your client so that it can use exchange until an OSS exchange server replacement is made. That's what the grandparent wanted, and it's a very reasonable request.
The vast masses aren't going to migrate away from MS based on principle. They want things that work. You aren't going to break the hegemony until you provide them with something that works as well. Sunbird isn't there yet. Not by a long shot.
Parent
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It is easier to migrate a single server than a thousand clients.
Once you have a server that that supports Sunbird "and Sunbird+Thunderbird can do everything Outlook can" it will be easy to migrate people off of Outlook.
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Then Sunbird is doomed to a small niche.
Apparently you've missed the last 10 "revolutions".
Wedged (Score:2)
Nevermind (Score:2)
Darwin Calendar Server Support? (Score:5, Interesting)
Looks awesome! (Score:2)
Now the events in Sunbird 0.5 are shadowed, looks much nicer. Thanks guys!!
Oh, and if anyone wants to make an openso
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I'd switch in an instant if it had support.
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Cheers,
Morel
Congratulations to the team (Score:2, Insightful)
* my own iBook, running iCal
* iPod sync'ed off of iCal
* Novell Groupwise at work, on both company Dell laptop and desktop
* Windows Mobile 2003 PIM thing as my work mobile phone
And what runs on everything? The open source stuff, running on many platforms and generating files to import for everything. No agenda as to 'doesn't import / export files for other platforms'. Cracking interfa
Too late, Google Calendar wins. (Score:2)
But I'm not gonna use it now, because I've found Google Calendar. SMS support alone is worth the switch. It also has contacts integration so I can invite people to meetings from my contact list, and it has an upsell story: You can run Google Apps for Domains and get the PIM/Groupware featur
Google Sync is the most important... (Score:3, Interesting)
Off topic: anyone hear any rumors about gmail supporting IMAP?
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I'm a bit busy right now. Cheney asked me to come back home for a nooner, and thought I would love to discuss this proposition, I cannot sit down right now.
Perhaps some other time?
Love,
*S
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