Verizon Copper Cutoff Traps Customers 269
theodp writes with more mainstream attention to an issue discussed here a month back: "As it hooks up homes and businesses to its FiOS fiber-optic network service, Verizon has been routinely disconnecting the copper infrastructure that it was required to lease to other phone companies, locking customers into higher broadband bills, eliminating power outage safeguards, and hampering rivals. A Verizon spokesman argues customers are being given adequate notice of the copper cutoff, which includes this read-between-the-lines fine print: 'Current Verizon High Speed Internet customers who move to FiOS Internet service will have their Verizon High Speed Internet permanently disabled after their FiOS conversion.'" Customers are supposed to be informed by both the sales person and the installer that their first-mile copper will be cut, and this is not happening.
Re:Well they told me when I signed up (Score:3, Informative)
I don't recall the sales people telling us this was the standard procedure, which is bad. But like you, I researched on the 'net before making the switch and I saw it mentioned everywhere. Then, when the installers came, they noted the second line that was present (but not in use) and asked me about it. When I said it was inactive but used recently by my roommate, they said they'd leave the copper, just in case. It seems they can't provide two separately billed residential POTS lines on one FIOS account right now. No argument from them, and I expect I can switch back if I want, though I have no incentive to do so right now. So far, FIOS has been great across the board. Their POTS sounds even better than on the old copper, has no 911 issues, and they install a battery backup for it. In the event of an emergency with a power outage longer than the battery life (extremely rare, at least around here), I guess I can plug the battery backup unit into the cigarette-lighter inverter ( $20) in my car to make any calls that don't work on my cell phone. That's no worse than the fact that I have to plug the cordless phone base station in, too -- or dig through the basement to find the one old corded phone I still own.
Re:It might be legal but.... (Score:5, Informative)
Funny. A couple of years ago, we had a wicked ice storm that knocked out power for a sizeable area for close to a week or more. In the case of the road I'm on, the power was out for 5 days.
The phones still worked the whole time.
I just got FIOS (Score:5, Informative)
1. They didn't cut the existing copper to the house. The installer said they don't do that if there is more then one family or if the customer asks them not to. But even if they had I could still get phone only service over fiber for the same price as over copper. It doesn't matter much as we don't have a LAN lane, only cell phones.
2. They install a battery backup with the fiber that will keep it alive for 6+ hours if the power goes out. But honestly, most people have cordless phones and other phones that require 120v AC so they lose phone when the power goes out anyway. True, if you power goes out frequently and you need to use the phone then FIOS isn't for you. But most places like that are rural areas where FIOS isn't being installed anyway.
3. The worst part of FIOS is that we now need to pay for the 15 watts the transformer uses. This really does piss me off but even with the $30 a year it will cost me it is still a much better deal then Comcast. Oh, and I can still use Comcast for Internet/TV/Phone if I so I have not lost my choice of connections. I would need two separate coax runs if I wanted both at the same time though. The installer asked me if I wanted him to run new coax in the house which I declined.
I'm not overly impressed with the actual speed of FIOS now that we have it but it still is a better deal then Comcast. When Comcast becomes cheaper, I'll probably switch again. We have more competition now then we ever had in the past and it is saving us money.
Re:I just got FIOS (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It might be legal but.... (Score:5, Informative)
nonsense. POTS over copper is centrally powered with sizable banks of batteries and 2 diesel generators the size of my car for backup power.
in the event of a total power grid failure, we have enough fuel in the tanks under the main office to keep the system running for roughly 2 weeks (and if we can't get more fuel in that time, the shit has really hit the fan). the batteries alone would power the system for about 8 hours, but the generator starts up automatically if the power is out for more than 20 minutes.
Re:It might be legal but.... (Score:5, Informative)
That's complete bull.
Oh, and wholesale Verizon partners were limited to ONLY the 768K/128K or 1.5Mbps/128Kbps speeds. Talk about a hard sell...
And now that the telcos have been deregulated again, Verizon has grandfathered most if not all of their wholesale offerings and has choked the market off even more.
I don't like at&t any better than Verizon, but at least their DSL wholesale pricing is a lot more reasonable.
Re:I just got FIOS (Score:5, Informative)
I have a two-family rental property. One family recently had Verizon FIOS installed. The other family is cell-phone only (single guy) with four idle copper lines.
Verizon cut all copper to the house.
The 1st unit now has Verizon fiber and lost its copper connection.
The 2nd unit lost its copper, and now has no connection to the street.
Re:Well they told me when I signed up (Score:3, Informative)
Like everyone else is saying, the problem isn't that they're replacing copper with fiber. It's that you no longer have any prospect of enjoying the benefits of telco competition. Verizon has you, and whoever moves in, by the short hairs.
Dream on if you think Joe's Coalition of Tiny Phone and Internet Startups has the lobbying muscle to require Verizon to open up that fiber.
Re:Why cut the copper? (Score:3, Informative)
Verizon, at&t, and any other Fiber service provider owns a 100% monopoly as long as there is no copper. Verizon is not required, and has no natural incentive to lease their fiber to competitors at any price. If they were to allow a competitor to "lease" the fiber, I guarantee they would say "Ok, well our retail rate is $49/mo, so we'll let you use the connection for $45/mo" or some other really impossible to compete with price. The competitor would still have to provide all of the connection termination equipment, and the bandwidth, and would probably have to sell the service at ~100/mo just to cover costs. So obviously no one would sign up for that.
Verizon isn't doing that though, as they cut the copper they are removing competitors and creating 100% monopoly service areas where customers have absolutely zero choice.
Re:Are competitors allowed to compete in the area? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Well they told me when I signed up (Score:3, Informative)
As far as local voice service, Verizon was it. Long distance, sure, AT&T, whoever else you like- but only Verizon for the local. No other competition- they own the local Class 5 and noone else offers any kind of local switching in this area.
Re:Interesting quote FTA (Score:3, Informative)
The simple truth is that the in-ground infrastructure is a natural monopoly, and while ideally it should be public property, if a private company continues to own it, then access to it and charges for using it should be heavily regulated, and any entity that wants to use it to provide services should have equal access at fixed rates.
Re:Well they told me when I signed up (Score:3, Informative)
Um, FIOS IS being run like a public utility. It's using PU right of way regulations to drop it's big ass boxes in front of peoples houses. It's using PU rulings on 'network improvements' to bypass all local regulations on construction & buildouts. The FIOS project is also part of the $9B+ in tax credits & grants that the telcos have received over the last decade with the garuntee that we would all have 40MB service 5 years ago.
Let's also back up & examine this, 'private business does it first'. In Chicago suburbs, the telco's spend $12M to defeat plans to run Municiple Fiber to EVERY HOME. 2 years later they force fed a 3% coverage to just the wealthiest neighborhoods & quoted their costs as 3X the total coverage plan they had defeated. AT&T & Verizon are actively blocking municipality's attemtps to impliment these types of installs - usually by quoting their PU monopoly status. After that, they are doing less, charging more, and killing all forms of competition in the process.
All while the FCC 'protects our interest' by ruling that 'phone, tv, internet' provided over fiber from the Telcos isn't subject to the regulations that cover 'phone, tv, internet' provided over fiber by the cable companies.