Open Source Linux Phone Goes On Sale 520
An anonymous reader writes "Sean Moss-Pultz has just announced on the OpenMoko mailing list that the Neo1973 is finally available for purchase. OpenMoko.com is now taking orders via credit card. OpenMoko intends to 'free your phone' through a hardware-independent and open source user interface backed by the Linux kernel. This device could very well stand as a competitor to the more expensive Apple iPhone, but at a fraction of the price and with no vendor lock-in. Although the devices in this release cycle (GTA01) are mainly intended for developers, the up-and-coming devices targeted to the consumer market (GTA02) will also feature WiFi capabilities, a 3D acceleration unit, and 256MB of on-board flash. Both units will use the MicroSD card interface for removable storage and have USB client / host capabilities. For a full feature list, check out OpenMoko.com or the OpenMoko Wiki."
Re:Sounds great, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Regardless, every OSS developer with a mobile phone should be switching to this device. It is everything we have been asking for in terms of good corporate citizenship toward the open source community. Everything is open. Hardware specifications, source, direct contact with developers, community sites, everything. Once we all get on board only good things can follow.
Everyone vs. iPhone (Score:5, Insightful)
This smacks of the same sort of complaint-response attitude that drives the also-ran category in the music player market. Sure, it's open. Sure, it has features that everyone claims to need. Sure, it has a vaguely iPhone-ish interface. Wake me when it syncs with iTunes and automatically pulls my contacts, music, movies, TV shows, and calendar.
Ha. Ha. Ha. (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh yea, because, you see, iPhone is selling like crazy because it has a big touch screen!
It's *marketing* people. To reach the masses, you need a clear message, a clear brand and a clean hyped up release.
iPhone, by Apple, at 6PM, in all Apple and AT&T stores. Clear enough, right?
What does it do? iPod, Browser, Phone, Maps, YouTube.
Neo1912324, running OpenMoko, released just for developers for now and later for I don't know who and later maybe for everyone. For sale now in some places, if you can find it. What does it do? It's got advanced features running on Linux and is unlocked.
Normal people will see absolutely nothing in that phone, never mind how we, geeks, are salivating at it, if the marketing and branding effort is so weak. Sorry.
Re:Oh, the Slashdot fads (Score:3, Insightful)
Forget the sealed batteries, non upgradable memory - to me perma-locking the phone into AT&T is the biggest crime about the iphone and I think should be grounds for an anti-trust suite. Maybe open phones are in?
If Microsoft had done this with a killer phone everyone had to have (yes - I know they don't have one...) everyone on Slashdot would be crying bloody murder.
great screen, too (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sounds great, but... (Score:1, Insightful)
OH God! ROTFL (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but can we get just a little reality check here? And I'm someone who thinks the iPhone is 80% hype.
Re:What a deal! (Score:3, Insightful)
If you really wanna compare the Neo Advanced with the iPhone, you'll have to include the many billions of dollars you'll have to give Apple so that they give you some of the iPhone's IPs.
Oh, and did I mention the Neo's got built-in GPS? Imagine a world where the freaking phones switch into silent mode when you enter a theater.
Re:Oh, the Slashdot fads (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:OH God! ROTFL (Score:3, Insightful)
When I last posted about my Motorola e680i (a low priced phone, for the China market) the only responses I got here were that I was elitist and linux phones weren't for everyone..
pfeh..now all of a sudden its cool.
There are a couple on sale on ebay at the moment from $36 to $195.
Re:What a deal! (Score:3, Insightful)
You seem knowledgable, so I'll ask you: does the OpenMoko include PIM apps? And, just as importantly, does it synchronize with anything (hopefully e.g. KDE PIM at the least, but bonus points for Apple's iSync...)?
Re:And then Boom! (Score:2, Insightful)
Hmmmmmn, if you ask me, making you buy a track you allready own (on CD) - just to use it as a ring tone is pretty fucking ugly.
Beauty isn't just skin deep.
Re:And then Boom! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Ha. Ha. Ha. (Score:5, Insightful)
Everybody does. And everybody has different apps that matter to them. That's why having lots of apps matters.
And let me tell you - it's a vicious cycle. If the phone isn't attractive to mainstream, developers won't develop mainstream apps for it, and mainstream won't buy it.
Ah, yes, and Linux will never work because nobody will develop software for it, right? Current phones (including the iPhone) come with so little software that is so limited that the bar is really low. Most of the so-called mainstream developers are fixing bugs and omissions in the base OS, something OpenMoko doesn't need.
OpenMoko costs $450/$600. You can get a Symbian/WinMobile smart phone with open API for less than that.
OpenMoko costs $300 with a 640x480 screen and GPS (the $450 and $600 include development hardware, something that costs thousands of dollars from other vendors). There is no Symbian or WinMobile that comes even close. In fact, the only other 640x480 phone is a brick. $300 will barely get you the lowest end Symbian phone unlocked (the E50). And Symbian is not exactly open or standard and a pain to develop for (I've tried).
Re:Everyone vs. iPhone (Score:3, Insightful)
You may attribute their success to anything you want, but it's just not that simple.
"Call it flashy advertising or a fashion statement if it helps you to feel better about your electronics purchase, but simplicity and interface are key."
Yeah, that's always said yet it's not clear how much more simple Apple's products were to provide that "key" differentiation. Funny how the interface that was so inherently superior in the iPod was abandoned entirely in the iPhone yet the iPhone is now praised for it's "simplicity". The fact is that whatever Apple's product is at any given time is claimed to be the standard by which everything is judged. That's called fanboyism.
"...but I've never seen a communications device that makes contact and calendar syncing so easy..."
Then you haven't been looking. Contact and calendar syncing is a trivial process with every smartphone. Palm was doing it for years prior to the iPhone and they are, frankly, the gold standard, not Apple. The iPhone is exactly as easy and no easier to sync than the last several smartphones I've owned.
"Wake me when it syncs with iTunes and automatically pulls my contacts, music, movies, TV shows, and calendar."
And that comment smacks of the same Apple-elitist mentality that defines everything in the market by what Apple does. If iTunes is required, no one but Apple can succeed. Syncing a smartphone through a media jukebox application is totally counterintuitive yet no one comments on that.
I can make a lot of claims regarding what other products do that the iPhone doesn't. Funny that you don't concern yourself with any of that. Apparently, all that's important to you is precisely what the iPhone does. Wonder why that is? Can the iPhone sync its SMS messages to its host computer? Can it archive it's IM conversations? Oh yeah, it doesn't even do IM.
Re:Everyone vs. iPhone (Score:3, Insightful)
1) It really, truly, and honestly does marketing well. Apple fans will swear up and down that that has nothing to do with it, but they are deluding themselves. Apple does marketing in a way that few other consumer electronics even begin to contemplate. Whoever the hell is running Apple's marketing campaign needs an extra zero or two tacked on to the end of his salary. I am not saying that Apple doesn't make a good product, but Apple isn't the only company to make a good lap top or MP3 player in the history of mankind... but they are the only ones to market it with so much success. Apple is a marketing god that lays waste it its enemies with fiery bolts of marketing d00m.
2) Apple locks down their products and creates slick interfaces. If you look at the competition against Apple (and this goes for all of their devices, from phones to computers to MP3 players), Apple uses the same strategy. They bust out workable hardware that is more or less about par for the industry, wrap it in a shiny case that was designed by marketers who know what a human eye likes instead of engineers, and then spend a good long time working on slick software that is tied to the hardware. The actual electronics are generally nothing to write home about. The shinny case developed by marketers who actually know what humans like to look at is helpful, but this still is not terribly remarkable. There have been other pretty devices in the history of humanity that have failed. The software is what really completes the package. Apple takes complete control over what goes in and out of the device by exerting a great deal of control over the both the software and hardware of the package.
You see this with the iPod. You use Apple hardware to hook up, and then use Apple software to load up (yes, I realize you don't HAVE to use iTunes, but 99% of the people do). The result is that Apple has control over almost the entire process and can make sure it actually works. If you look at other MP3 devices, they tend to let go of control when it comes to the software. They either don't have the software expertise to build a slick (or even workable) software interface and instead build a bad one, or the rely on a third party that is usually accommodating more then one MP3 player to be the portal in. Things are better today in the non-Apple MP3 market as other companies have caught up, but Apple has already eaten their breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
The advantage the iPhone is going to have, despite all of the things that irritate me about it, is that Apple is going to be the first to lock down the phone with a complete software and hardware package. Further, they are taking it a step further and even specifying the carrier so that they have control over that too. This is just classic Apple at work. Grab as much control as possible and sacrifice third party software/hardware/carrier to provide a standardized, controlled, (and as a result) stable package. Apple isn't selling these phones as open phones not because they couldn't convince Best Buy to sell an open iPhone, but because gobbling up as much control as is practical is how Apple operates. Are you really going to notice or care that the iPhone has a hard time communicating with non-Apple products or that AT&T can't slap on their standard cell phone OS?
So, this open phone Vs the iPhone? Eh, I put my money on the iPhone. As much as I might not touch the thing with a ten foot pole (I don't mind switching between devices and padding my ass with a pile of the cashI saved... not to mention not selling my soul to AT&T), Apple is going to win a fair hunk of the market in the end. Coming into the market with control over the software, hardware, and carrier means that Apple is able to offer up an integrated device that the cell phone market has seen very little off. Thrown into the mix some Apple marketing divine intervention, and you have a winner. So, grab the Linux phone if that tickles your fancy (it tickles mine), but I wouldn't invest any money in that company.
They don't care so long as you're on contract (Score:3, Insightful)
Just that you pay your bill (and perhaps rack up some overage).
In fact, if you didn't buy the phone from them, they have less to deal with
if you have hardware problems. T-Mobile has no issues with doing that
what so ever.
Re:2.5G GSM? (Score:3, Insightful)
For those of you who really think that the difference between 2.5G and 3G is a deal breaker, I'd like to point something out:
Unless you are going to hook the phone up to your computer and use it as a modem, the difference doesn't matter. You've got a 2" screen with a relatively low resolution - even crappy video streaming will run over 2.5G (poorly, but who watches video on their phone anyway?).
If you could do VOIP or something over 3G that might make it matter, but the latency for cellular internet access is so horrible that it's not worth it. On my 3G Sprint (PowerVision) phone, I've never seen my ping get lower than 500ms - and I've even written midlets to test it.
Maybe 4G will matter, but the difference between 2.5G and 3G is *nothing* relevant for any phone usage pattern I can come up with. Even MP3 downloads are fast enough on 2.5G.
Re:why do i need a beta phone? (Score:3, Insightful)
Not really cheaper than the iPhone (Score:2, Insightful)
From the announcement:
We will sell this device through multiple channels. Direct from openmoko.com, the price will be $450 for the Neo Base and $600 for Neo Advanced.
Hmm. $450 (likely plus shipping) sounds an aweful lot close to the 4gb iPhone, and $600 sounds about a dollar more than the $599 iPhone.
Maybe it's not really cheaper. Yea, you can get the developer version, without the 3d graphics support for $300 (without the developer tools!) or when you pay for the developer tools it's $450.
If I buy a phone that's $450 (I know this is against the heart of opensource and "DIY" stuff), but I want it to be super tested, and work well. Yea, yea, the iPhone has a few problems. Apple's phone support staff alone for the iPhone is bigger than the R&D for this whole company. I don't want someone to say, "Recompile the kernel on your phone... don't know how? RTFM!" as you often get in some open-source circles. I don't mind paying a little bit to Apple to know that I can get all the support I want just by walking into an Apple store. I don't want to have to log onto a Subversion/CVS server and download code, recompile it, and cross my fingers
It's a cool idea, but it seems to miss some of the 'good things' that Apple's done, like the Multi-touch screen? Also, from everything i've read the iPhone is more durable than almost anyone would have expected. I dunno about this thing. You can open it with a guitar pick? huh
I know all of Slashdot was hoping for Open Source to show us how they "aren't ripping the world off" and aren't "locking you down" and how open source can do it cheaper and better. Well this doesn't look like cheaper. It doesn't look more tested. And it doesn't look better. Sorry.
Also, duh. Half the reason anyone wants an iPhone is the same reason they want a Porsche. Because people recognize it, and they can show off.
You can't possibly provide better user experience (Score:2, Insightful)
Geek does not imply Linux fanboy ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Being a geek does not mean you will buy something merely because it is Linux based or FOSS based, that is a bit more like fan boy'ism. You need to realize that for most geeks Linux is not a crusade, many just need a good general purpose *nix environment and don't really give a rats ass about the politics and religion that gets so much attention. For this phone to make an impact in geek circles it has to deliver as a phone, like Linux delivered as a general purpose *nix. If its greatest feature is "its Linux based" then it will be a niche product even among geeks.
Re:Here's an easy prediction: (Score:5, Insightful)
You buy a phone.
You get a SIM from a carrier.
You put the SIM in the phone.
It works.
What more needs to be done?
Re:Opnemoko versus iPhone (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sounds great, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a bloody good start. But it's got a long way to go.
Re:Phones and SIMs are always bundled here (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.nokiausa.com/A4411004 [nokiausa.com]
http://www.store.motorola.com/mot/en/US/adirect/m
Rather than buying locked phones and whining about how difficult it is to unlock them why not just buy an unlocked phone?
GSM/GPRS module (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm curious as to how similar the GSM module is to a CDMA counterpart; Look specifically at smartphones like the treos; they come in both GSM and CDMA models, and the mainboards on them are pretty much identical. I'm willing to bet that if you took the GSM module out of this thing and slapped in a CDMA module from another phone (that uses the modular technology) that you'd be able to use CDMA networks.
Now the CDMA guys have agreements where they won't activate an ESN from another carrier, but if you've got an old or broken CDMA smartphone from someone like Telus, say, you could in theory have this phone on a CDMA network without too much trouble. There'll be some driver work as the commands aren't identical, but they're pretty damned close.
As a consumer (Score:5, Insightful)
Me: "I have this phone I want to add to my plan"
Sprint: "Did the store activate it?"
Me: "No it's my phone I didn't get it from a Sprint store"
Sprint: "Sir we don't do that"
Me: "blah blah blah blah - - ~~~ you're supposed to blah blah"
Sprint: "Sir let me check can you hold?"
Me: "Yeah sure"
-15 minutes later
Sprint: "Sir? We can do that, the activation fee is $375"
Me: "Huh?"
Sprint: "Sir yes if it's not a phone we sell then that's the activation fee"
Me: "Never mind, thanks anyway"
Sprint: "Thank you for calling Sprint"
This ought to be good. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Awesome (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Oh, the Slashdot fads (Score:1, Insightful)
Do you live in ths US? Because if you do, it's surprising that you don't realize that every single phone sold by cell providers is locked to the provider. If you think that's grounds for an anti-trust suite, then you're going to have one against every cell provider in the US. (oh, and it's not -- neither AT&T nor the iPhone have a monopoly)
Re:Awesome (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not really cheaper than the iPhone (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Here's an easy prediction: (Score:5, Insightful)
GPRS is the choice because it's generally not restricted. Supposedly it's relatively easy to connect to GPRS without the provider's help, but a lot harder to connect to EDGE. Dunno how true that is, but that was the rationale for using GPRS. It would be nice if the consumer model had support for EDGE.
But the main point is that what this phone is doing is something different. Normal phones you get from your cell provider are disposable, and they have to be, because they generally suck. The hardware is great, don't get me wrong, but the software usually bites, and you can't fix it. My Samsung t809 won't sync with my Prius because of some stupid handshaking glitch. There's never going to be a firmware update for that. If the OpenMoko doesn't sync with my Prius, what to do? Fix it. I don't have to try to get Samsung to fix it. I don't have to listen to Samsung and Toyota blame each other for the problem. I just fix it. You, if you don't want to hack the phone yourself, wait for me to fix it. It's a really good deal from that perspective.
Likewise, my t809, which is a really sweet piece of software, has an alarm tone that genuinely pisses me off. It's an earworm. If I use the alarm on the t809, I'm hearing it in my head the rest of the day. I'd like to use a different alarm tone. But I can't. Because it's a closed-source phone, and they didn't think to let me install a different alarm tone. They weren't trying to screw me - they just didn't think of it. On the Neo, I can just hack the software if it's not configurable.
My t809 doesn't support stereo bluetooth. The fix? Buy a new phone. Two years later, when my old contract expires. Lame. On the Neo? A simple matter of programming. It probably already works - I haven't tried it because I don't have the phone yet. But if it doesn't work, I have the source code, I can fix it.
My Macbook won't work with the modem in my t809. So I have EDGE support, but I can't use it. On the Neo, as long as I can get the Neo to talk to the network, I can just have it do IP over the bluetooth, with NAT, so that my Mac has access to the Net at the same time that my Neo has access to the net. Doesn't work? Use the source, Luke.
So yeah, the Neo is really under-featured, if you're into cell phone cameras. But if you're into flexibility, and not being locked in to a broken phone for two years at a time, I think it's got possibilities.
Hackers and closed source (Score:3, Insightful)
Closed source or not, once a device is in the hands of malevolent hackers they can attempt to crack it. There are cracks for DVD's that allow them to read all regions, that software is closed source. There are hacks for Windows Genuine Advantage, which is closed source. Mention an electronic device that costs money to use and I bet there's a hack for it, closed source or not.
Even if the software is in protected firmware (which I bet it is) there is the potential for "patching" the firmware or abusing the open source API with some clever hacking.
Hopefully this phone won't be a target because the company behind it are trying to do something special. But if you expect people to play 'nice' then you'll generally be disappointed.
Re:Sounds great, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, like you said, I bought one because I want to support this. I'd hate to have wasted the money if this turns out to be a dud, but I want to show these companies that demand is out there. This is the kind of thing where you really do need to vote with your wallet. This phone is, in principle, a dream come true.
Re:Oh, the Slashdot fads (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Apple got it wrong (but may still win) (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Here's an easy prediction: (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed. I fully intend to get an OpenMoko device, but I'm likely to wait until a 3G version is available. A slightly bigger screen and a hard keypad would be nice too.
'running Linux' is not a good reason to get a phone
I think it's a very good reason:
1. All the development tools are Free and will work on my workstations (all of which run Linux)
2. I can run OpenMoko in qemu for development purposes
3. I can run many of my normal GUI applications on the phone since it uses Xorg
4. I can easilly hack up shell scripts, python scripts, run cron jobs, etc
5. Hopefully the Free software mindset will allow better Free software - I'm sick of everyone wanting to charge me 30-50ukp for every crappy little utility for my Symbian phone
that came free with my (cheapest possible) contract 18 months ago
I spend around 2ukp a month on my cellphone - I have no intention of going onto another contract with a monthly charge just to get a new phone (especially since all the phones provided by the operators at the moment are shit)
but it has no camera (WTF?).
Why on earth do I want a camera on my phone? Most of them take crappy blurry photos through their crappy tiny plastic lenses. I'll stick to using my old IXUS400 for quick snaps thanks.
iPhone != best designed phone (Score:3, Insightful)