US GPS, EU Galileo to Work Together 203
saintory writes "The US and EU are in talks to allow their separate GPS systems to work together. The future uses would allow enhanced location information based on two readings, among other benefits. 'The market probably will drive dual-use receivers. We think probably that single (U.S.) GPS-specific, or Galileo-specific receivers — the market will phase out in time [...] It just doesn't make sense to limit yourself to just one system'."
I don't know about Galileo, but GPS needs help (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm sort of underwhelmed (Score:5, Interesting)
But I also think this is nothing more than a recognition of reality. Unless they deliberately enforced licensing restrictions preventing it, I'm quite sure the market would have provided a dual-system device very shortly after Galileo was operative.
US ability to jam .... (Score:5, Interesting)
I thought the reason that Europe wanted their own satellites is that the US basically reserved the right to scramble the signal whenever they wanted, and the EU didn't want to be beholden to US technology. If they broadcast on the same frequency, does this make it easier or harder for the US military to degrade the signal when they wish?
Is this a good thing in terms of assuring access? Or is this a backdoor for the US to exert more control over it? TFA is vague on that point. It would kinda suck if all they've done is water down the reasons they had for wanting to do it in the first place
Cheers
I thought the whole point.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Now perhaps this story refers to times when both Galileo _and_ GPS are working. Would that increase the accuracy so that both systems together are more effective? I don't really think so. I don't think that Galileo (which has an accuracy of 0.1 meters afaik) can be enhanced by some GPS satellites (which has an accuracy of 15 meters). They are way too old, the GPS satellites (at least, most of them).
GPS/GLONASS combo receivers available now. (Score:5, Interesting)
Receivers that use both GPS and GLONASS satellite signals have been available for years. Maxim just announced a new receiver chip [gpsworld.com] which receives both and only costs $2.95 in quantity, so that capability is likely to become more available.
GLONASS was in bad shape after the USSR tanked, but new GLONASS satellites are being launched again, and the constellation is currently about half populated. As of today, 11 GLONASS satellites are functioning, 5 are down, and one new one is being brought into position. 24 operational satellites are a full set.
The earlier GLONASS sats only had a two year design life, but the latest models have a 7 year design life, and they're going for a 10-year model. They launch a new batch every December, so they're starting to catch up.
Re:How very... (Score:5, Interesting)
The only thing this did was to piss off a lot of legitimate users, including the FAA and the Military when the available supply of Military GPS units dried up.
Also, a very modestly inaccurate GPS signal isn't going to deter a terrorist. Rather, it's going to encourage him to build a bigger bomb, which would result in considerably more collateral damage.
Re:I don't know about Galileo, but GPS needs help (Score:3, Interesting)
How does this qualify as news? (Score:1, Interesting)
1. The Euros still have barely made 1 satellite broadcast a NAV message.. if in fact, they actually did. The most accurate discription of what the whole Galileo program has done to this point is bitch-n-moan, and put up a used Frigidaire into space with a HAM radio and a metronome hooked together with bailing wire broadcasting the opening 3 seconds of Weird Al's "Like a Surgeon" track for the last few years.
2. Teenagers keep hacking the ICD-spec'd encryption in a handful of days, thus ensuring that any possible monitary beneift the 72 countries "invovled" with Galileo will become naught once some industrious Chinese manufacturers start making receivers which bypass the payment scheme. (can you say "region-free/CCS-free DVD players?" I knew you could)
3. The Euros could shut-down Galileo anytime they wanted - why should the US depend on a system that could be shut-down anytime someone else wanted? Answer - they probably won't.
they killed the Concorde because they couldn't get along. They stopped supporting Airbus because they couldn't get along. They haven't accomplished anything of merit with Galileo because they can't get along.
Perhapse we'll just all do what we know everyone will do... what Euro's do best...
keep using GPS for free while complaining the whole while about it and keep bitching about the colonials until they're in deep shit and ask for help.
tossers.
Re:How very... (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't forget the US Coast Guard, who developed the Differential GPS system for boaters. It consists of a series of ground-based stations throughout the US that receive GPS signals then re-broadcast a "fixed" signal that DGPS receivers can then use for a more accurate fix. I always thought it was pretty ironic (and laughable) that one branch of the military would degrade GPS and then another branch of the military would remove that error specifically for civilian use.
Launches? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:GPS/GLONASS combo receivers available now. (Score:3, Interesting)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS#Current_statu s [wikipedia.org]
In recent years, Russia has kept the satellite orbits optimized for navigating in Chechnya, increasing signal coverage there at the cost of degrading coverage in the rest of the world. As of May 2007, GLONASS availability in Russia was 45.3% and average availability for the whole Earth was down to 30.5%, with significant areas of less than 25% availability. Meaning that, at any given time of the day in Russia, there is a 45.3% likelihood that a position fix can be calculated.
In short, that's not exactly what I would call a "global positioning system"
Re:US ability to jam .... (Score:3, Interesting)
When you get signals from 3 satellites you look at the differences in times between them. There is only one point on the earth that has the precise time differences corresponding to the data available. Due to error there is some error in the calculated position, which decreases as you get more satellite data.
Now, the GPS transmits the time in the clear, and it also transmits it encrypted. Currently both streams transmit the same data, so military and civilian units are equally accurate.
However, in time of war intentional error can be introduced into the cleartext time data - making civilian GPS receivers inaccurate. The correct time will be transmitted encrypted, so military units can make use of the accurate time and get full precision.
All of this posturing between EU/US proponents is silly. Most likely both governments would agree to collaborate - a threat to either an EU member or the US would probably lead to both systems being degraded. Sure, the US probably has the capability to play hardball by threatening to shoot down or otherwise disable satellites if others don't go along, but more likely than not it wouldn't be necessary to make threats. The US isn't about to go shooting down the satellites of major trading partners anyway unless we're talking all-out nuclear war. And if nukes are flying all over the place I think the EU will be interested in shutting off Galileo since they're just as likely to be in the path of missiles as anybody.
Terrorism probably isn't on anybody's mind - GPS probably isn't all that useful to terrorists. It is more useful as a conventional military technology.