$298 Wal-Mart PC Has OO.org, No Crapware 422
cristarol writes "Wal-Mart has begun selling a $298 PC (Everex IMPACT GC3502). It comes with Windows Vista Home Basic and OpenOffice.org 2.2, as well as a complete lack of crapware: 'Users accustomed to being bombarded with trialware offers and seeing their would-be pristine Windows desktops littered with shortcuts to AOL and other applications will likely be pleased at their absence from the GC3502.' The machine is targeted at the back-to-school market. The hardware is nothing to write home about: a 1.5GHz Via C7 with 1GB of RAM and integrated graphics, but as Ars points out, it should be more than capable of performing basic tasks." Dell sells a low-end PC through Wal-Mart for $200 more, and one assumes it is loaded with crapware. Anybody know for sure?
Funny (Score:5, Funny)
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Clue #1: Don't call them that.
/Currently mouthbreathing
//Damn allergies
Wh else looked at it and thought... (Score:3, Funny)
Laptop specs (Score:2)
Anyhoo, Dell also sells some PCs with a 'no trailware' option. It seems that manufacturers are seeing the light. I wonder how much the 'PC Decrapifier' project has to do with this change of heart.
Re:Laptop specs - Linky Linky (Score:2)
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What I want to know, though, is do I call Walmart for the OpenOffice source, or Everex?
One Question (Score:3, Insightful)
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Probably. For $298, it doesn't even include a monitor.
Heck, I just built a dual-core Athlon 64 x2 3800+ with 1GB of RAM, a 250GB SATA HDD, in an aluminum "gamer's" case with a side window and lighted fans and an nVidia GeForce PCI Express graphics card for just a little more than that $298 with parts purchased via Pricewatch-participating stores. (it would have been less without the fancy case/power supply, even.)
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And why does anyone bother trying to whack computer geeks with a clue stick, since it's cheaper not to?
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These may actually not be cheaper. It depends on how much your own time is worth. Buying a used computer doesn't have to cost you extra time, whereas preparing your own food or building your own house certainly does cost time.
Also, I do cook my own food, because it's cheaper. And because it's better.
``And why doesn't everyone buy a used car, since it's cheaper?''
Agai
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"For Sale: Used computer. 2001 model. Cost $1100, will sell for $600. Taken good care of."
Any shops around here will try to cheat you out on both new and used computers. It's really sad when someone asks me where they should g
"Eco-friendly" computer (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess a computer that has little or nothing to it also doesn't use much power either. But then, my Game Boy is more eco-friendly.
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It's in the processor (Score:4, Informative)
"With a maximum power consumption of just 20 watts (2 watts average), the VIA C7®-D processor sets new standards..."
How much do 1.5GHz processors normally consume?
Re:It's in the processor (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:It's in the processor (Score:4, Informative)
Sam
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Simple solution (Score:2, Interesting)
If they truly wanted to make it power efficient compared to other computers, it would as simple as forcing the monitor (which would be LCD of course) to go into standby if the computer hasn't been in use for 15 minutes. I shudder to think how much power was being wasted when I used to work at a national lab, where everyon
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Compared to a PC that runs at over 100 W, it probably doesn't matter too much, but if your PC uses about 20 W, it matters if your monitor uses 1 W or 20 W.
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Also, besides the C7 being very low power, it also dissipates very little heat and doesn't usually need a CPU cooling fan. If it does use a fan, it's a little thing that takes nearly no power compared to a lot of processor
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Driving a Hummer once per year --> terrorist.
Driving a Prius 100 miles each weekend to bounce between parties --> eco-friendly.
Lighting up a tiny studio apartment with incandescent bulbs --> terrorist.
Lighting up a mansion full of empty rooms with CFLs --> eco-friendly.
Running non-eco-friendly computer 8 hrs per day --> terrorist.
Running eco-friendly computer non-stop -->
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Posting something that makes it seem like you're "thinking outside of the box", when you're really just attacking arguments no one made --> karma.
Has VIA improved? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Well both nvidia was delayed by about 6 months so I bought a cheap ASRock motherboard just as a stop-gap. It used a VIA chipset. I also thought the same about VIA then, but I don't now.
The motherboard didn't have blazing performance but it was incredibly stable. It had hardware raid, both SATA and PATA, supports both DDR 1 and 2 memory, and is still the only socket 775 motherboard that has both
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Comparison (Score:5, Informative)
- # Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition
- # NVIDIA GeForce 6150 integrated graphics
- # Dell USB keyboard and USB 2-button mouse
- # Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
- # Integrated 7.1-channel audio
- # 56k PCI data/fax modem
- # Microsoft Works 8.5
- # Adobe Acrobat Reader 7.0
- # Roxio Creator Basic
- # McAfee Security 30-day trial
- # Earthlink application software
- # Windows Vista PC-Restore
- # 1-year limited warranty and at-home service
Having experienced all the above software (with the exception of Earthlink application software whatever that is), I'm going to say that yes, it is loaded with crapware. Scariest one on that list would probably be the earthlink application software because that's the most generic name for a product I can ever think of.The other differences between these two machines is they have comparable memory, DVD burner & GPU, the Dell's hard drive & CPU are a lot better. The ArsTechnica article mentions upgrades at a price, you could probably get the IMPACT up to the Dell range and get it close which is probably pretty important for the average consumer who doesn't want to deal with the ordeal of reinstalling Windows just to get a clean slate.
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Minimal crapware.. (Score:5, Informative)
They could have chosen a free AV package, like they chose a free office suite (or even a free operating system). But, they went with the try-now buy-later package.
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Also: anyone know how a 1.5GHz VIA C7 performs? Comparable to a 1 GHz PIII at least?
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Yeah, the Epia and JetWay microATX/miniITX boards use that line, and I have one with that exact chip.
I'd say it compares favorably with the PIII, clock-for-clock. It works pretty well for a general purpose PC. You can use all your normal "productivity" apps no problem, it can handle audio just fine, some video (they usually have hardware MPEG2 and now even MPEG4 decoders, though I don't know what the exact setup mentio
A/V companies pay for placement on Dell machines (Score:2)
Re:Minimal crapware.. (Score:4, Insightful)
They could have chosen a free AV package, like they chose a free office suite
Even more, with the Norton stuff installed that 1.5ghz via cpu will feel like a 800mhz one and with constant hdd scratching it will feel like it swaps all the time. There are dozens of - even free - av sw that are at least as good and need much less resources - which is point to consider given there's only 1gb of memory and vista on it. I just made a 750mhz duron machine usable again last week by replacing that norton 2k7 stuff, they just wondered how could that be...
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Are you sure about that? While I obviously don't know any details of the discussions between "freeware" AV companies and PC makers, I doubt that AVG would let the company bulk-install even the freeware AVG version. They would probably treat installing it on 100k computers as a corporate install, and AVG charges for those.
Norton is only willing to pay to put their version on since it's crippled and they expect people to pay up when the trial ends. It's a lot d
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Additional Software
CyberLink PowerDVD Suite
Norton Internet Security(TM) 2007 (90-day subscription included)
Norton Internet "Security". In my opinion you would have to search hard for worse crap ware.
Nice home Linux server box (Score:4, Interesting)
The VIA C7 is a nice low-power CPU, with enough kick for most server tasks. At only 20 Watts power, it's well below any of the Intel/AMD options.
Too bad there isn't a version without the Windows tax.. this box at $250 would be even better.
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Anyone have links to real world benchmark information (not performance per Watt, raw application performance)?
This would make a nice Linux server.. my only hesitation is raw power for the few CPU intensive tasks my server performs. For example, MythTV commercial flagging. With my 1.6GHz Athlon64, it does commflagging quite well. I'm wondering if going to a C7 would slow that down a lot.
Also, this box could poss
Wow, a 1.5 VIA (Score:5, Funny)
Inflation of specs for student tasks (Score:5, Insightful)
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Other than that, I agree -- most non-gamers would be fine with it.
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How would stores shift the mid- and high-end PCs, given that most people don't play modern 3D games, if they didn't inflate the specs required to perform more common tasks?
I've even seen stores recommending at least a mid-end PC if you want to surf the web. Presumably the low-end ones aren't powerful enough to run a web browser...
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Not to abuse an old cliche.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Even with the MS tax, can you realistically buy or assemble a full PC with those specs for that kind of price? Sounds like a good entry-level Linux box to me!
It's not a bad deal at all (Score:3, Informative)
I'd buy one... (Score:2)
I'll take the crap. (Score:3, Insightful)
Windows Tax Refund? (Score:3, Interesting)
Does MS just give them away "free" to companies like Everex/Wal-Mart, just to protect their platform marketshare for selling Windows apps (or reporting marketshare)? Isn't all of that anticompetitive, probably explicitly so under the various (though largely unenforced) monopoly verdict decrees?
Or can you get your MS tax refund if you delete it and send it back? Has anyone pulled that off lately? Or maybe, possibly, convince Wal-Mart to save the expense, and sell a cheaper PC with Linux installed - or nothing installed, but with a Linux LiveCD/netinstaller?
It's all good (Score:5, Insightful)
And yeah, Wal-Mart probably isn't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, nor to boost open source, nor to satisfy the few Linux people. Their motivation is undoubtedly to make money, and they usually do that by giving consumers what they want (a cheap item, that does the job).
Well, we should be proud that OpenOffice is seen as a viable enough too in their delivery of such a product, especially one aimed at students. It really is a big step in the right direction, and validates Open Source to a very large degree.
-dale
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On the other hand, many colleges either provide Microsoft Office for a very low media fee, or for a very low student discount price.
So perhaps Wal Mart is figuring that students will just buy the cheap PC and then get the $12 version of MS Office from school. They probably include OOo as the default just to have something to provide. "Use this until you get MS Office from school..."
Just guessing.
Dell AthlonX2 $382.59 USD @ DELL (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.redflagdeals.com/deals/main.php/alldea
* AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor 4000+
* Windows XP Professional
* 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz - 2 DIMMs
* 160GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
* 16x DVD+/-RW Drive
* Microsoft Works 8
* Integrated 7.1 Audio, Video
* Dell USB Keyboard, Optical USB Mouse
* 1 Year Next Business Day Onsite/In Home Service and Tech Support
I think it's worth it for $100 more... even with possible crapware... XP Pro itself is worth like $150 OEM. (I'd still rather of XP than Vista at the moment)
If it stops them from getting hooked on WOW... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Look at the features of a modern web browser and it's no surprise that it sucks up 100+ MB of ram. Same goes for a word processor that's doing full-time spell checking and reformatting large documents. Then there's the OS updates. When an upd
Where to start. (Score:5, Insightful)
The machine has 1Gb RAM. My laptop has a quarter of that and seems to browse the web and run Office perfectly well.
As for CPU... I'm pretty sure it will cope with the heaviest of messenger sessions.
I've actually convinced myself that this computer is worse for students than I thought in the first place.
You need to climb down back to the real world. Very few people need garanteed sub-millisecond response times (or even knows what they are).
Re:Where to start. (Score:5, Interesting)
This included:
Word processing
Web browsing
IM
Matlab simulations
Circuit design with Eagle
I did have a 1 GHz Athlon Thunderbird available, but with the exception of the Matlab stuff, I took no productivity hit. In fact, if anything my productivity was higher because I could work while laying on my apartment's nice comfy couch instead of sitting at my desk. (This is why I used the laptop when I had another machine available.) In some ways the slowness of the Matlab stuff actuall increased productivity because it forced me/allowed me to multitask while my simulations ran.
Admittedly, the laptop ran Linux. Running Vista on this machine is likely crippling it so that 1GB RAM might indeed be insufficient.
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My college computer was an Exidy Sorcerer with a 2.5 MHz Zilog Z80 processor, 32KB RAM and a Radio Shack portable tape recorder. I used it to do my compiler and assembler class assignments. In Microsoft 8K BASIC. My instructors loved it because they had never seen one before.
The CS lab had an Imsai 8080, but was used by the card reader and was unavailable to students.
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Anyone remember how we use to have to "crack" these games? For you younger peeps, gather 'round, grandpa's got a story for ya.
It involved 1 of 2 things (let me know if I'm remembering this wrong):
* Some games had a key you entered every time you played. The crack here was simply copying the paper or card with the keys as well as the diskette(s), which was harder than you might imagine as photocopiers only ex
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I did my EE senior project (in 1984) on an Atari 800 with 48k of RAM (took 3 cards to hold all those memory chips!) and a floppy disk drive that wrote 88k per disk (unless you used the "hole punch trick", in which case it was a "flippy" and could hold 176k :-).
For the project, I designed and built a processor from discrete TTL gates (!), and used the Atari to write its operating system as well as a processor simulator to debug it. All this in Atari 8k BASIC.
And I got an A, too. :-) :-)
Better yet,
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2. At $300, they can probably afford to buy an OEM copy of Windows XP to downgrade th
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Re:If it stops them from getting hooked on WOW... (Score:5, Insightful)
All this stuff runs just fine even on 512M of RAM. I use one such machine for work, which includes most of the stuff you listed (word processing, web browsing, matlab, lots of compiling, lots of PDF, image editing, etc.), and it runs just fine even with dual monitors.
Let's not even go into the "uphill both ways" stories of what computing power we used in college to do these exact same things.
I think the GP is right, the kids will whine because they can't play games. Been there, done that
I don't think so... (Score:3, Funny)
I think you mean, the can't play the latest 3D game releases.
Slip 'em a copy of DOOM. I bet even DOOM II will run great. You could probably even run Quake or Quake II on there without much trouble.
Duke Nuk'em might take forever though.
depends (Score:2)
People w
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Of course this was about three or four years ago, she ran a combo of windows 98 and Knoppix and was paying for school and everything herself while working. I think she stret
Re:If it stops them from getting hooked on WOW... (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, though, if the choice is between a student having this $300 computer, and a student having no computer, which do you think is better?
Not every parent can afford to spend $1000 or even $500.
Yes they are. Any app designed for business is tweaked to run on a variety of systems, programs are designed to run on systems that were state-of-the-art more than five years prior. The business upgrade cycle used to be around three years, but now it's getting larger every day -- and businesses tend not to buy top-of-the-line systems anyway.
Back to educational use -- very few disciplines of study require apps that really use a lot of cycles. And when they do, typically those apps are run on university computers, not students' PCs. Those apps are also typically used for high-level research, not basic undergrad stuff.
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P.S. I may be kidding about the pr0n, but not about the root cause of the slowdown.
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Re:If it stops them from getting hooked on WOW... (Score:5, Insightful)
In fact, while I'm thinking of it, this PC might be a good buy for my parents who badlu need to upgrade their old workhorse. Those specs will run XP just fine!
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Don't worry... I'm sure your child will find something else to do at college... I know I did
*cough* became a father half way through third year *cough*
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Silver platter syndrome (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd just like to point out the absurdity of describing such a powerful computer with terms normally used to describe a 4-function calculator.
When I entered college, I paid for my own 8086 turbo, running DOS 3.something, and a 1200 baud modem. It had a 32MB RLL hard drive. It was also "more than capable of performing basic tasks
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Sure, if you include MP3's, porn, FPS games and bittorrents it may not run so well, but still $289 isnt a bad price for that.
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I suspect you could (Score:2)
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Re:Don't sell the students short (Score:5, Insightful)
I've done statistical analysis on a Zenith Data Systems 8088 system and written games for a Commodore 64, so please don't refer to anything with an 80 GB hard drive and 1 GB of RAM as "junk hardware". I know junk hardware, and that, sir, is no TRS-80.
The fact that the OS needs 1 GB of memory to function is what's wrong with the world! Seesh, kids these days...
Re:Don't sell the students short (Score:5, Insightful)
Apart from the fact that, if you're going with Windows on this kind of hardware, a version prior to Vista would've been smarter, everything should suffice for it's intended purpose.
Problem is that Microsoft probably offers OEM's Vista for near free but charges a premium for XP, the system would have probably been more expensive if it included an older version of Windows.
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If given the choice between Windows XP (any version) and Windows Vista (any version), which would you choose (if price weren't a factor)?
Assuming you said Windows XP, could you give me some reasons why?
Personally, I don't trust Windows Vista. I heard bad things about it, and I see no reason to abandon XP.
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The problem here is that I know people that throw away their P-IV 2.6GHz/1Gig RAM because they consider it "crap hardware". That's what sad in this world. People consider my 2003 AMD MP 2400+/4Gig RAM "crap" because it isn't the latest Intel Core Duo. Well with Debian on it, it flies... Thank you very much...
Heck with a price like that and a sane operating system, this is really nice hardware. I began computing on a "state of the art IBM PS/2 Model 50", so really, this system is nice compared to what w
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The fact that it runs vista (400-500M ram used to boot, maybe 100M max for virus/malware scanner, plenty of headroom) and OOo is a good thing, we have been doing that on our stores systems for a while now (although, we load firefox, OOo, spybot S&D, Ad-Aware, windows u
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But here is what I am see the average student told. You have to learn MS Office. IE is the interner. You have to turn your work in in office format. Employers will expect it. Sure, a kid could do a paper in a text editor. Most is more than sufficient for the tas
Re:Don't sell the students short (Score:5, Insightful)
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Actually... (Score:3, Insightful)
Some of us do :) (Score:2)
My wife got her Masters in Meteorology and did this. I'm an Aerospace Engineer and basically consumed 100% of my computers' resources (dual core AMD x5200) for a month and a half doing runs for my thesis. (and yes, the simulation was multi-threaded)
I agree with your premise. While this machine will work for people just interested in social networking, anything beyond that will leave the user lacking.
Re:Don't sell the students short (Score:5, Informative)
1. It has Vista Home Basic so no Aero. It probably will not be stressing the harware.
2. It has a gig of Ram. I have NO problem running XP media Center and OpenSuse on a system with a Gig of ram as a duel boot. Open Office runs just fine.
3. It is under $300.
4. I has a DVD drive so yes you can watch DVDs on it.
5. It has IE on it. The sad truth is some sites require IE to work correctly. This is changing but having IE to fall back on does make life easy.
6. It has Open Office. Which gives you a lot of good tools.
7. Did I mention it is under $300. Less than a PS/3 or 360?
8. It only has an 80 gig drive. So it has 6 USB ports. Think Geek was selling 80 Gig external drives for under $50! Those are much better to put your music and videos on anyway. When the RIAA and Montag come knocking at your door they my not find your external drive with your MP3s or your collection of books.
9. It uses SATA for the HD. I bet you could put in another or a Larger drive if you really wanted it.
10. So it only has one gig of ram. It has an open memory slot. Go buy an extra gig.
For a High school kid or even a college student this would be a good machine. Frankly a lot of businesses could work just fine off one of these. It also doesn't use a lot of power thanks to the C7 CPU.
As to just building your own. Not everyone wants to build their own PC or even knows how. This machine with an LCD monitor would be a handy little system for many people.
I don't know if it has any open slots but even without them you could add WiFi with USB. You could also add a TV tuner so it could be you kids TV as well.
In other words it seems like a good deal for some people. The fact that it will not play the latest and greatest games I can only see as a plus.
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It looks perfectly fine for web/office work. I can't see where it lacks for it's primary market. And if the only lack is RAM, then, presumably, you can bump it up to 2G for under $100.
Now, I'm not comment
Re:Slashdot Groupthink is strange (Score:5, Funny)
You are just the kind of dog that likes to pee inside the house I guess.
Re:Slashdot Groupthink is strange (Score:5, Insightful)
Interestingly, they usually describe this as "Groupthink"
The fact is that Slashdot users have a variety of backgrounds and opinions. On every issue, there is a distribution of opinions. On some subjects we all seem to agree (e.g. "technology is good"), on others we mostly agree (e.g. "Linux is cool") and on others still there is so much disagreement that you will see completely contradictory and opposing opinions both modded up to +5 (e.g. "global warming is a myth").
Your example, of disliking MS but supporting Wal-Mart, is a total strawman. The general impression I get is that there is a consistent but not universal dislike of Microsoft's business tactics, and that there is solid division of opinion on the Wal-Mart issue. I've seen insightful comments both supporting the good that Wal-Mart does as part of a thriving free market, and insightful comments about the harm that Wal-Mart does as a megacorp that only cares about money. Both sides make good points and the most reasonable stance is probably a nuanced view that takes into account all of these factors. To suggest that Slashdot has a single opinion on these subjects betrays a serious lack of perspective on your part.
Your closing sentence, "I wish I lived in the fantasy world of most Slashdotters", again is deeply rooted in the fantasy that Slashdot is a single entity with a single mind, and that any self-contradictory statements it makes represent its own insanity, rather than diversity of opinion among its constituents.
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