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Software Microsoft

Does ODF Have a Future? 402

qedramania writes "Linuxworld seems to think ODF is a dead duck. Is the Windows monopoly too big and too entrenched? Other than diehard Linux fans, does anyone really care if they have to keep paying Microsoft to do basic word processing? It seems as though the momentum is towards a complete Microsoft monoculture in software for business and government. You can bet that big business and governments will want more than just reliability from Microsoft in return for their acquiescence. Does ODF have a future?"
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Does ODF Have a Future?

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  • Open Office will happily read/write/create MS Word files. That said, it seems that ODF is gaining popularity, not losing it.
  • by MeditationSensation ( 1121241 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @01:07PM (#20059603) Homepage
    I don't think it's a technical issue at all, it's just what people "know". Whenever I go on a job hunt people ask for my resume "in a Word .doc", as if that's the only possible format.
  • Yes. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @01:15PM (#20059743)
    Option 1: Continue to use MS formats, and continue to pay. Save money now in the short term.

    Option 2: Break free from MS formats, and help develop a better, free format. Outlay some money to break free, never pay again (unless you're feeling charitable. :). Yes, it will be expensive to convert from .doc to ODF, but won't it be worth it in the long run?

    Red Hat created a logo and posters [redhatmagazine.com] recently to help spread ODF. Print a couple of copies and stick them up somewhere. Maybe include a link to openoffice.org. :)

    ODF is far from dead.
  • Re:In short. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by quanticle ( 843097 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @01:20PM (#20059839) Homepage
    It's a great alternative that only computer literate people will every try, and that most businesses will ignore because it doesn't matter for them.

    And then the alternative will gain marketshare to the point that even mainstream consumers are trying it out, which will cause businesses to notice.

    Honestly, the analogy I'd think of is Imperial vs. Metric. The rest of the world isn't nearly as wedded to Microsoft as the US is. Therefore, we're likely to see uptake of ODF become significant elsewhere before it becomes significant in the USA.
  • by mlts ( 1038732 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @01:24PM (#20059901)
    I'm pretty sure ODF isn't dying. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Office 2007 natively (or with a plugin available from MS's website) supports ODF as a native format to save and open from, just like you can specify that Word uses .doc instead of .docx.

    IMHO, ODF is far from being dead.
  • by anwyn ( 266338 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @01:28PM (#20059983)
    If someone installs a ring in your nose, is it really smart to save money on a hacksaw?

    The entity that installed the ring, expects to recover the cost of the ring, plus a lot more.

    Freedom is not free, but slavery costs more.

  • by Divebus ( 860563 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @01:32PM (#20060019)
    As CTO, I'm telling my staff that it's irresponsible to send MS Word .doc files. We're at least sending PDFs through email but haven't managed to break the MS Office habit yet. Still too many buzzword enamored people here but they're starting to understand.
  • by Mawginty ( 882393 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @01:32PM (#20060021)

    It seems to me that open formats are most important for government archival purposes. That is, state governments are producing huge amounts of public documents that really ought to be preserved for posterity. Saving them in an open format (free from copyright protection which lasts 120 years in the instance of an institutional author like MS) seems to be a pretty good step to take towards that goal.

    My question is, what are the practices of digital archival in state governments? Do they even have one? I'm taking it for granted that things like bills and committee reports are turned into pdfs and made publicly available, but what about letters to constituents, emails between legislators and things like that?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @01:38PM (#20060097)
    Why is it "irresponsible" to send doc files? Not preferred, but irresponsible?
  • by dpilot ( 134227 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @01:40PM (#20060137) Homepage Journal
    About as many stories I hear of ODF being rebuffed in the US, I seem to hear of it being adopted overseas. Not 100% penetration, but still better than in the US.

    In that light, perhaps the metric system is the correct analogy.

    Maybe the limit has more to do with how many politicians Microsoft can buy. For many years they ignored politics, preferring to exert their force against "business partners." After the antitrust suits they began to learn about US politics, and with ODF they began to meddle in state politics. But there are subtle difference in politics in every political entity - do it wrong and you're even worse off. They've just put a lot of effort into China, obviously because it's a big emerging market. They'll likely put a lot of effort into India, too. But beyond that, it starts getting little - and local.
  • I showed her how to export PDFs and send that.
    I've actually recommended installing OO.o as a means of converting MS Word .doc files to PDFs. So far, I've never had a problem with it messing up the format. OTOH, I interact primarily with people who also use OO.o. Usually, my conversions from .doc to .odt are one-time conversions and not a back-and-forth process.
  • by ronocdh ( 906309 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @02:10PM (#20060635)

    Do you really *want* your resume in their database? Personally, I'd much rather send my resume to a person who can ignore it because they're busy rather than to a database where it will be ignored because I forgot to mention the keyword "AJAX".
    Although you raise an interesting question about the appropriateness of widespread network inclusion, I think the more important issue is that companies' databases will accommodate whatever formats they must. If you send in PDF, and I send in PDF, they'll adjust the system rather than keep reminding people to use .doc.

    I do this routinely, whether exchanging papers with colleagues or submitting resumes. It has to do with the philosophy that I will not give you easy editing privileges on something that I created; a PDF, while alterable, still feels more like a sealed envelope to me than a blank postcard like a .doc.
  • by Krishnoid ( 984597 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @03:13PM (#20061527) Journal
    I don't remember where I read this, but there was a business article describing pricing that said if you want to compete with a monopolistic product (I think it was Microsoft Access), you need to price your offering *higher* than theirs. This is to give the impression that going with you will provide you an advantage over going with the crowd, or that your product is better quality.

    Considering that MS Office is a tried and tested solution with a huge support network, a product can't really compete on being a little bit worse (i.e., a raft of unknown headaches) for a few bucks less. I bet you'll find more people who'll pay 10% more for a 10% better product than 10% less for a 10% worse product. If your perception of 'worse' or 'better' in a given situation skews those numbers, the choice becomes easier or harder, but it still kind of boils down to your cost/quality curve. And I'd suspect Linux power users are more concerned with quality than cost.

  • by Vexorian ( 959249 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @04:02PM (#20062241)
    Seriously, have you ever wondered how PDF managed to get so usual? People began using them in web pages, and asking for you to get adobe acrobat reader to read it, that's how it works. If people want your information they'll use your format.
  • by shelterpaw ( 959576 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @04:10PM (#20062339)
    .DOC and PDF are the standards and will stay that way for a long time. There first must be a shift in applications. For example if Google Docs and OO.org can penetrate the market then you might see a slow shift. If you breakdown the OS by percentages and then the applications within those Operating Systems, you just have a long way to go. OO.org just committed to porting to the Mac. Sure NeoOffice is an alternative, but it has some major weaknesses. But Even if everyone on Mac and LInux switched to OO.org and Google Docs, you will still have a majority of people on windows using Word.

    You also have to get the word out. How many non technical people know what ODF is? Not many. How are you going to promote it? The only way you can do this is for big companies to jump on board and make all internal documents ODF and eventually that'll push to outside firms. However, it's not likely in the near term. It does have a chance to creep in when more companies use web service for office suites, but that's a ways off.
  • by Divebus ( 860563 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @04:49PM (#20062869)

    I sold the latte stand [therappaha...coffee.com] about 5 years ago.

    No dogs, 100 person shop, yes CIO, no CEO, not in Enumclaw WA [google.com], still have too many Outlook junkies (3 remaining), OpenOffice/NeoOffice still a shade buggy for prime time and... why yes, I am important nerd on /.

  • by rdebath ( 884132 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @05:49PM (#20063571)

    The Microsoft RTF 'standard' is re-written with every version of MS-Word. It has exactly the same compatability problems as MS-DOC because it's about the same format, just asciified. Also an MS-WORD RTF file usually contains three seperate versions of the document (a) the document in the current RTF variant, (b) the document in the previous RTF variant and (c) an original style approximation of the document. This is one of the reasons it makes such big files. (The other major one is that MS-Word usually puts images in the file as hexdumped BMP files!)

    RTF is seen as more compatible than MS-DOC because the previous version of word can read the file; but that's a con, it's just a single step reversed combatability not true interoperability.

    Finally it's also got the same problem as OOXML, a very, VERY badly written standards document.

  • by Hektor_Troy ( 262592 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @07:36PM (#20064651)
    I work as a hotliner for a computer retailer (no, not Dell).

    The latest trend on our computers is to bundle them with a trial edition of Microsoft Office (60 days). This doesn't support saving your files it seems, nor priting or anything else even remotely useful apart from viewing documents.

    Once we explain customers that they have to pay Microsoft to get a fully functioning version of the program, they almost always ask where to get something else, that works without having to pay for it. I always tell them to try out OpenOffice.org - see if it fits their needs. If it does, great - they've just saved a minor fortune. If not, they can always switch back to paying for MS Office.

    Same when the computer is bundled with MS Works, which for some really arcane reason doesn't want to play nice with MS Office.

    While I've no feedback from all of the customers that I've advised to try out OO.o, I have heard from several of them that they will never use MS Office again, when their trial version is so "buggy", that you can't even use it properly in the trial period.

    Does ODF (well, something other than MS' formats) have a future? I would say it has a big future as long as Microsoft shoots itself in the foot instead of luring customers in with fully functioning/compatible programs.

    But maybe that's just me.
  • by brantondaveperson ( 1023687 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2007 @09:01PM (#20065325) Homepage
    PDF is made for prepress, which is something that it excels at.

    PDF is not made for the onscreen viewing of documents, which is obvious from the extraordinary extent to which the PDF viewer sucks at this.

  • Another question: what's the likelihood of such an organization switching to Open Office without destroying a lot of data?

    Why on earth would you need to destroy data?

    One of my clients did this recently. We mirrored all of our MS format data to an archive volume, then used OOo's built-in batch converter to convert everything to ODF. We set it going on a Friday afternoon, and it turned out to be pretty seamless - not much hand-holding at all. When staff came in on Monday, they had a new office tool, and all their documents were in the new format. We had the archive volume ready so if there were any corrupted documents, we could retrieve them in the original MS formats, but we haven't needed it yet.

    For us it wasn't specifically about OOo anyway, though it's a decent enough tool. What we wanted was to be able to automate a lot of document creation, including machine produced data (loggers on locomotive engines), and with ODF that's an order of magnitude easier than with MS's proprietary formats.

  • The other problem, is that word uses an undocumented binary format, thus it's much easier to hide malware or 0day exploits in it, and much harder for your filtering system to weed them out.
    At least with ODF or PDF the format is known, so you can parse it in a sandboxed environment on your mail filter, and remove anything that shouldnt be there. Sure there are still risks, but they are greatly reduced, any exploit against an ODF application would need to work without breaking the XML schema. Also with a standard format, you're less assured of what application the end user will be running (thus making 0day attacks less likely).

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