Automatix 'Actively Dangerous' to Ubuntu 284
exeme writes "Ubuntu developer Matthew Garrett has recently analyzed famed Ubuntu illegal software installer Automatix, and found it to be actively dangerous to Ubuntu desktop systems. In a detailed report which only took Garrett a couple of hours he found many serious, show-stopper bugs and concluded that Ubuntu could not officially support Automatix in its current state. Garrett also goes on to say that simple Debian packages could provide all of the functionality of Automatix without any of the problems it exhibits."
FUD (Score:1, Informative)
Old News (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Illegal? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I think it screws up when upgrading. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:warez? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Could someone clarify why it is illegal? (Score:2, Informative)
Automatix not needed anymore (Score:3, Informative)
Slashdot Spin, as per usual... (Score:4, Informative)
The article is a technical crictism of Automatix, how it doesn't follow proper package rules, etc.
This is the conclusion to the article, which sums it up pretty well
Automatix is barely needed anymore. You can do just about anything through the standard repos these days.
Re:Illegal? Misleading and Misconstrued FUD (Score:5, Informative)
Re:"...could provide..." (Score:5, Informative)
They have. There's Debian-Multimedia [debian-multimedia.org], which has been around for a few years. I know there's one or two specific to Ubuntu, five minutes Googling will probably find one. I've been using D-M for years now and have not had a problem. Automatix is an ugly hack and should be avoided at all costs.
Re:I never understood (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Slashdot Spin, as per usual... (Score:5, Informative)
Incorrect. Distributing w32codecs and other proprietary software without permission violates traditional copyright law, not just DMCA provisions.
Re:Could someone clarify why it is illegal? (Score:3, Informative)
It's a question of whether you want to gamble that large software companies will continue to look the other way on your infringement or not.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Automatix is a utility that automates the installation of a bunch of software that is considered "must have" for people just switching to Ubuntu. For instance, it installed Firefox, mplayer, wine, DVD playing software, and multimedia codecs. (Actually the installer would just give you a list of things you could install, you select the ones you want and click "next.")
I don't really understand why this is being characterized as "illegal software." The packages are already in the usual repositories. The utility would just automate the installation for you. If you live in a country where installing one of those packages is somehow illegal (is this actually the case?), then that's your responsibility. The tool is just an automator intended to ease the transition for new users. It really provides nothing above and beyond the standard packaging interface, except that it was easier (in some people's opinion) to tell new users "install automatix" rather than telling them to open the package manager and list the software they should install.
In any case, the whole argument seems rather pointless. Automatix was created a few years ago, at a time where installation of things like multimedia codecs was perhaps non-obvious. New users were flooding forums with repeated requests like "my mp3s don't play! why?" and "how can I play DVDs on this Ubuntu thing?" Automatix was created as a simple response to that.
In the meantime, Ubuntu has, from what I can tell, cleared up these issues. Installation of codecs is straightforward and pretty obvious. The package manager is very user friendly. In short, there is no need for Automatix. Basically, Automatix was an ugly hack. It's always been recognized as such, and developers have always discouraging people from using it. On the Ubuntu forums, the standard advice is no longer "install Automatix," since it is recognized to be a non-optimal solution.
So, in short... I think this issue has already passed us by.
Re:Old News (Score:3, Informative)
I use Linux, have all of those things, and I've never even heard of Automatix. I'm not using Ubuntu though.
Re:Illegal software installer? (Score:5, Informative)
The important thing is that it's a stupidly dangerous (to your system) piece of software, that most members of the Ubuntu community are trying to inform everyone about. A lot of community sites swear by it, and when anyone argues they give the 'it works fine for me' argument.
This is not the mentality we want to have as a linux community. The automatix team refuses to make their software better, and launced a few all-out assaults on the communities that warn against it. Even going as far as to say (on their website, up until a few months ago) if you go ask help for automatix in their IRC channel, and claim that the people in the ubuntu channel sent you there, they (automatix team) won't help you. Which is stupid in and of itself, but that's the mentality that the automatix people have exhibited time and time again.
Because of this, and in some random attempt to clear their piece of software (and argue about it's proper terminology whether 'package manager' or 'packaging script' or whatever), and to get their lead developer (arnieboy) unbanned from the ubuntu forums (for trolling, more or less), they went to the Forum Council and petitioned, the forum council rejected some stuff, and said that they shouldn't make a decision on the technical merits (since they're not technically qualified or whatever). I imagine this is the fruit of their lack-of-verdict, someone higher up (who was qualified to assess its technical merits) finally took a semi-official look.
I wish I had links for the meeting, here it is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ForumCouncil/
Re:I think it screws up when upgrading. (Score:5, Informative)
To get Flash working on 64-bit Linux, try searching your distro's software repository for "nspluginwrapper". Technically it's a bit of a hack, but from a user's perspective it's fairly transparent at getting 32-bit browser plugins to work on 64-bit platforms.
Debian, at least, has it.
Also on Debian, to get MP3 and video codecs add http://www.debian-multimedia.org/ [debian-multimedia.org] to your list of repositories, either in the Synaptic GUI, or in /etc/apt/sources.list. It's been a while since I first started using it, and I think you might have to reinstall or upgrade some packages that depends on the codecs, but after it's setup it works just like the official repositories.
Re:I think it screws up when upgrading. (Score:3, Informative)
I know you're just trying to rant, but in case anybody else is interested:
sudo su -
echo 'deb http://janvitus.interfree.it/ubuntu/ [interfree.it] feisty-upure64 main-amd64' >
apt-get update
apt-get install nspluginwrapper
and voila, you can use the flash plugin on 64bit linux.
Medibuntu (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Old News (Score:3, Informative)
Ubuntu handles all that stuff with less problem than finding and installing Automatix.
Automatix *isn't* needed.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
That stuff is exactly what the "ubuntu-restricted-extras" package is for.
Rather than screw around with Automatix, perhaps someone should post the following script instructions:
I really don't see how installing some random script off a website and then messing with a new GUI program is any easier than that.
Re:I think it screws up when upgrading. (Score:1, Informative)
Mod parent up!
On a lot of support forums I see people having trouble with 64 bit Linux, I guess they figure they have a 64 bit chip so they have to install a 64 bit OS -- even though there are warnings all over the place about compatibility issues.
Re: 64-bit (Score:3, Informative)
WMA and WMV (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Ubuntu has its own problems (Score:3, Informative)
There is a net loss in using automatix. Upgrading is a huge pain, as so much stuff is broken / hacked together. Most things automatix was built for can now be done quickly in a none-hacky way. There is no real reason to use automatix, as the problem automatix addressed (lack of an easy way to make common customizations/installs) isn't there anymore. You sure about that? I certainly used RealVNC before the feisty final release. Insecure? That'd be addressed in security updates. Can't comment, know nothing of it. iptables is also installed by default on ubuntu. You can also use firestarter to manage it in through a GUI, that's what I do
Re:Old News (Score:4, Informative)
Software? Add/remove programs and synaptic cover this in a way which is far more simple, centralised, consistant and user-friendly than Windows. Software management under most distros is about as good as it gets (e.g. yum, apt, etc). Codecs I've already covered.
You seem a little misled by these issues anyway. Stop by in your distro's IRC channel and they'll help you through it.
Re:And the reason Automatix exists? (Score:4, Informative)
I also understand that users want to be able to play their MP3s, their DIVXs and use their ipods. The reason I do less for these people is that I have very limited time (I have a full-time job that's nothing to do with Linux development). Does that mean I want everything to be done via the CLI? Am I ignoring the needs of users? Do I have a fundamental misunderstanding of what people actually want to use Linux for? No, I don't think so. I just contribute where I can with the resources I have. I'd prefer to be able to solve all of these problems, but I'm limited by actually having to do other stuff with my life.
Re:Illegal? (Score:4, Informative)
1) The DVD-Jon case was in Norway
2) Consequently, it wasn't under the DMCA
3) It was the public prosecutor that tried and failed twice to convict him
4) They chose not to appeal it to the Supreme court, but only because there was no point
5) Since then, Norway and the rest of EU has been forced to adopt the EUCD aka euro-DMCA
6) Nobody has really tested the current law after the EUCD, at least not here in Norway
Re:Illegal? (Score:2, Informative)
6) Nobody has really tested the current law after the EUCD, at least not here in Norway
What makes this the coolest paragraph is that as soon as a way to circumvent the protection is published it's no longer effective. Downloading a program that enables you to play something is not really "actively pursuing" to circumvent a DRM scheme.
However, even if circumventing DRM for personal use is not ruled illegal (still in Norway), normal copyright laws still applies so you can not distribute it even if the DRM is 'ineffective' of course.
Re:I think it screws up when upgrading. (Score:4, Informative)
Where are DAG and DRIES when you need them? (Score:3, Informative)
For excellent examples of just this sort of conflict and mispackaging craziness, take a good look at any of the Oracle installers of the last 8 years or so, or any of the hardware vendor's driver installation tools. Serously, most of them are not as bad as this, but lord, they're not good. This is why I worship the names of DAG and DRIES, the primary third-party RPMforge repository maintainers for the RedHat based world. They just do things right and set an amazing example for this sort of repository manager wanna-be.
Re:Illegal? (Score:3, Informative)
Re: 64-bit (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I think it screws up when upgrading. (Score:1, Informative)
Granted it used to require the building of a 32bit CHROOT, but for the last 2+ years it's been the installation of half a dozen libraries.
uname -a Linux ShadowAerie 2.6.20-gentoo-r8 #2 SMP Sun May 20 10:45:23 EDT 2007 x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
uname -a Linux ShadowBook 2.6.20-gentoo-r8 #4 PREEMPT Tue Jul 31 17:07:41 UTC 2007 x86_64 AMD Turion (Tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-44 AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
YMMV, IMNSHO, etc etc
P.S. Yes these are relatively new installs. The original Athlon64 Socket 939 3500 is in a box waiting to be put in a new case. It used 2.6.8 or 9 kernel.
automatix has never been needed (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Illegal? (Score:2, Informative)
Ubuntu is not the distributor of Automatix.
It does not endorse Automatix.
I know because I lurk in the ubuntu help IRC channels sometimes,
I know that Automatix causes many problems for users.
These users then turn to "official" ubuntu support, only to get redirected to the automatix channel.
The Automatix vs. plain Ubuntu battle is well documented on the web.