Bulletproof Tool For Golden Age Browsing?

An anonymous reader writes "I work in a retirement/assisted living home. Many of the residents had never used the Internet but really find it fascinating once they are given a little training. However, I've stopped introducing it to them because of the drain it puts on me. There are a million and one things that a computer novice can screw up, and I don't have time to solve all of them. These folks don't need any sophistication. and they need only the most basic options. Adjustable text size would be nice, but otherwise — no email, no word processing or editing, no printing — just Internet browsing. This may not seem like a big market, but it's getting bigger every day! Is there an absolutely fool-proof device that can provide this without requiring virus scanners and constant attention?"

Obvious

[Anonymous Coward]

Man, you should know better than to ask a question like that on Slashdot. The Mac guys will say to use a Mac, and the Linux guys will say to use Linux. And then the Windows guys will complain about bias. Just watch =)

Firefox in kiosk mode?

[mccrew]

F11 in Firefox goes to full screen mode. Lots less to mess up.

Come-on, never heard of a kiosk?

[flyingfsck]

I find it hard to believe that this guy needs to ask the question and never heard of Kiosks or Live CDs.

Re:Obvious

[Enderandrew]

Without an emoticon I can't tell if you're being tongue-in-cheek or trolling.

I'm going to assume you're kidding.

Re:Turn Off Javascript

[Stormie]

you could instead simply turn off cookies & turn off javascript. Why? Because javascript is the devil. I think it has some of the most flawed type casting (if I can call it that) out there today. It's not a "type safe" language.

So, basically, your advice is that he provides them with a pretty much completely non-functional system, that will fail with most websites they might visit, purely to satisfy your religious zealoutry re typesafe languages? Good advice.

My 79-year old mom...

[Anonymous Coward]

I dreaded my mom getting a PC, but my dad ran out and bought them one a few years ago. They're both almost 80. Well, she never ceases to amaze me with her ability to do things right. During a recent complete system upgrade I installed Opera. She found it and uses it fully. She loves the "Speed-Dial" and has it filled up. Despite being a bit of a giddy-ditz type, she does have a BS in bio-chem and she's great with the computer.

Bottom line- do NOT underestimate our seniors. Their apparant slowness belies their great intelligence, adaptablity, eagerness, and wisdom. They may take a long time to understand something which is obvious to us, but overall they deserve to have at it. If you live right and with some luck, you may live to be a senior too. ;)

Mac OSX Simple Finder

[goombah99]

Oh and the other biggy on a mac is the meu bar is a the top of the screen and the ability to use a one button mouse. Both of those are a LOT better for your old folks. It has the handicapped access modes too (locking shift keys, high contrast views, zoomable)

Depends on what you want

[mcrbids]

Subject says it.

If you are really, REALLY only interested in a browser, then Firefox on Linux takes the cake. VMWare-based solutions are overcomplicated and under-performing. Firefox on Linux has the following neat qualities:

1) Once configured with well supported hardware, it's nearly impossible to hork without the root password.

2) cron can automagically apply updates (via yum on RPM distros, apt on Debian derivatives) via cron.

3) Viruses are rare to non-existent. (See #1)

4) Usability is good - it's not hard to teach somebody how to use it.

5) Compatability is decent. (not all flash/shockwave/java thingies work without a bit of crabbing, but it's usually doable)

6) Works wonderfully with that old 1.5 Ghz P4 you got at the yard sale for $80.

7) Remote support is decent. You can ssh in, forward X11 to your local system, and see whatever they see.

But, if you want MORE than the basics (EG: a browser + Internet connection) and might want to give the users a full computer (TM) then I'd strongly recommend a Mac. They can be had used for fairly cheap, almost all will run OSX, and I've never seen a computer that I've had fewer problems with when my 6 kids bring over their 27 friends to my (forever messy) kid-friendly house.

If they are more expensive, it comes back rather quickly in "OMFG IT JUST FRICKKEN WORX!" savings. (but don't expect Windows Media support anytime soon)

And, in case you are curious, I'm a long-term Linux geek, my laptop runs Fedora Core 6, my servers are all CentOS 4.x and I love 'em. They are rock-solid and the servers deliver 99.95% uptime. (most of the last 0.05% is not because of software problems, either)

Linux is fabulous for servers, passable for a deskop, mostly due to lack of 3rd party support.. MacOS is the opposite - teh shiznit for desktop systems thanks to great OS and decent 3rd party support, but only passable for a server.

Windows is, at best, median at either - although it's a crappy solution to both desktop and server issues, the industry 3rd party support makes up for much of the rotting carcass that is the Win32 API.

Re:LiveCD DSL linux or Mac OSX Simple Finder

[BiggyP]

Why bother with a LiveCD at all? If you have machine with a harddisk then give them a full fledged linux system fully installed, the majority of your limitations will go away and suddenly the idea of buying a Mac is less attractive.

Old People need more than that!

[billstewart]

.... and the people who support actual old people will complain that you don't understand what old people need. Unfortunately, many old people need a bit more than the original poster suggested.

• They do need Javascript and Flash, because too much of the Web uses it. Therefore you need an environment that can support that dangerous junk safely :-) You also need to be able to play a couple of different video and audio formats.
• Old people print stuff. That's how they remember it between sessions, especially if they've got a kiosky environment where they can't save their own stuff easily. It's also how they make it easier to read some things that are hard to read on screen. So you need printing.
• Shared machines might need logins or equivalent to take care of bookmarks and web-page stored passwords.
• Old people need email, but you can punt it over to Yahoo/etc. if you want.
• Some old people like Instant Messages; others don't.
• Some old people need to be able to load pictures from their cameras, so they can mail them to their kids or grandkids.

My first thought was to do a Linux livecd of some sort (or MacOS or BartPE or OpenBSD if you're not a Linux fan.) You *should* be able to do a pretty safe read-only-/usr environment instead, which will perform better and be a bit more reliable, and you can build yourself a reinstall-everything CD/DVD to fix things in case it's acting up - just try to find some way to preserve any user account settings. VMWare or User-Mode Linux or Xen can make it easy to build a heavy-duty sandbox environment to make it easier to keep the basic system safe if you want.

The important part of the user's interface to the operating system is that if they turn the power switch off and then on again, everything will work as if it were loading from scratch. Maybe they need to type in their name and a password, or maybe not.

Re:larger text and images

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever used a non-geek's computer w/LCD monitor? 95% of them aren't running at native resolution, and they never complain. And while I can tell at a glance when an LCD isn't at its native resolution, most people don't care--even when it's been pointed out to them. My grandmother even complained when I changed the resolution on her computer--everything got so small! So she runs at 800x600 on a 1280x1024 LCD with no complaints.

Give them some responsibility

[stranger_to_himself]

I would suggest something like the OLPC as an everything. Yes, it's geared for children but I guess you're kind of dealing with ... well, in some cases degenerated minds.

'In some cases' is the key phrase here. In most homes there will be enough people who are perfectly capable of using a computer.

In short, my advice is to find the one of them with the most clue or potential for clue and make him/her the sys admin. Then let them do what they like.

I work in geriatric psychiatry and my group has been interviewing older people in institutions to understand in what way their needs are or are not being met. A common theme that arises among the cognitively intact (who are quite often smarter than most of us) is that they feel useless, they can see there are needs within their environment that are not met and they are not empwered to do anything about it. This upsets them greatly.

You've probably got people in your home who were in techincal jobs before they retired, and are more than capable of looking after a couple of PCs. Give them some Linux CDs or Windows or whatever and a good book and let them figure it out. They've probably got nothing better to do.

They'll feel empowered, they'll teach their friends, and leave you alone. Don't patronise them, don't give them a crippled system.

Re:LiveCD DSL linux or Mac OSX Simple Finder

[ricebowl]

Do not give them a root password and provide sudo instructions for the visiting grandchildren if the golden age customer asks them to install something in addition.

So, wait...you're suggesting that visiting strangers should have sudo instructions/access but not the main users of the machines? I can't imagine that applications would be installed so frequently as to be problematic for the OP to install, thereby maintaining security and avoiding apparently-random changes to the installation. Plus the consensus so far seems to be towards read-only privileges to /usr, would it not be even simpler to offer something along the lines of removable media, such as a USB stick, for saving to and simply allowing the default installation of applications? At the very worst, if the users are aware of Gmail, on attempting to save a dialogue could be configured to suggest that either a USB key is required or that the user simply email the document to themselves for online storage?

I am, regretfully, inexperienced with *nix but it should, I'd imagine, be possible? And this way maintains security/integrity of the machines.

Of course if the machines are regarded as the property of the people using them then they should certainly have more freedoms, whether that incurs more work for the sysadmin is, to my mind, irrelevant. People are never to old to learn and adapt and, some research suggests [accelerate...online.com], continuing to learn reduces the likelihood of memory-loss, degenerative mental illnesses.

Don't underestimate your elders

[westlake]

Yhese folks don't need any sophistication. and they need only the most basic options. Adjustable text size would be nice, but otherwise -- no email, no word processing or editing, no printing -- just Internet browsing.

I disagree.

Used imaginatively, the computer can break down the physical isolation of the elderly and disabled. Help them to read, to write, to speak their mind freely. Don't deny them the benefits of e-mail, instant messaging and chat.

Don't deny them a printer. Encourage them to personalize their small - institutionalized -space with letters, photographs, graphics of every kind. Let them fill scrapbooks, albums.

There is so much out there that they would enjoy.

My grandmother loved the sentimental artwork of the Victorians, Coolidge's poker-playing dogs.

If they are lucky, there will be - one - Reading Radio station programmed to their needs and tastes. On the Internet, there may be dozens, hundreds.

Don't ignore the mental and physical challenge of online games and puzzles.

Re:Turn Off Javascript

[hoeyst]

This kind of thinking is remarkably narrow, in my opinion. "Turn off javascript?" Yes, what better way to introduce people to the Internet than by letting them view thousands of pages with degraded markup, broken applications, and missing funcitonality?

I'm sorry that you hate JavaScript -- I know it's a tool that has design flaws and that's abused by lots of people. But, the last time I checked, bad nasty evil JavaScript is what makes Google Maps work. For most new Internet users, the most exciting and common activity is to find their own house on Google maps, and look at the satellite picture.

I just don't see how turning off that functionality makes anybody's experience better.

And other posters have described FAR better methods of ensuring browsing safety and security than disabling a major feature set.