Bulletproof Tool For Golden Age Browsing? 366
An anonymous reader writes "I work in a retirement/assisted living home. Many of the residents had never used the Internet but really find it fascinating once they are given a little training. However, I've stopped introducing it to them because of the drain it puts on me. There are a million and one things that a computer novice can screw up, and I don't have time to solve all of them. These folks don't need any sophistication. and they need only the most basic options. Adjustable text size would be nice, but otherwise — no email, no word processing or editing, no printing — just Internet browsing. This may not seem like a big market, but it's getting bigger every day! Is there an absolutely fool-proof device that can provide this without requiring virus scanners and constant attention?"
Turn Off Javascript (Score:4, Informative)
I'm not sure which one you value the most. But, assuming we need all three, I would suggest something like the OLPC as an everything. Yes, it's geared for children but I guess you're kind of dealing with
One step up from that would be to use a premade Live CD of Ubuntu or Dragonfly or some other easy live Linux OS. You show them how to reboot with it and then they can surf like that. The downside is they can't save anything to disk but the upside is they can't save anything to disk
You know, the last college I attended had labs where you had administrative privileges but they reverted to a system restore point nightly. As a result, there would be screwed up machines but only for a day or week at most.
But, if we assume you don't want to reboot with a live CD of the OLPC or Ubuntu, you could instead simply turn off cookies & turn off javascript. Why? Because javascript is the devil. I think it has some of the most flawed type casting (if I can call it that) out there today. It's not a "type safe" language. And the proliferation of JSON objects in Javascript is frightening. But once you eliminate cookies & javascript, you also eliminate a lot of functionality.
I would suggest giving them the flash plugin (pending system requirements) as it's not so bad anymore. That and they'll probably want to watch YouTube videos of their offspring. I think that is a fair trade being as the latest Flash plugin is fairly secure.
So, I would finally recommend you give them plain jane mozilla firefox with no javascript or cookies & the flash plugin. It probably wouldn't hurt to jack the security meter up to the top and just tell them that sites they can't access are bad sites anyways.
Once again, I could use more requirements before giving you a final assessment but the above two options sound like they would come pretty close to satisfying your (and their) needs. These were made under the assumptions that these people suffer from learning disabilities in their old age and, as a result, you cannot host training sessions whereby you show them safe & secure internet usage.
In the end, I predict that some of the users are going to find a way to make it hard for you and them. I suggest starting with the lightest steps and only progressing forward as necessary.
Re:Turn Off Javascript (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Turn Off Javascript (Score:5, Informative)
Wow, thats the most runabout post I ever wrote. Going to bed.
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Goodnight!
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http://blog.deconcept.com/swfobject/ [deconcept.com]
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So, basically, your advice is that he provides them with a pretty much completely non-functional system, that will fail with most websites they might visit, purely to satisfy your religious zealoutry re typesafe languages? Good advice.
Re:Turn Off Javascript (Score:5, Funny)
Your post, however, now that's right on the fucking money. He kind of did mention it would severely reduce functionality though. But I like yours better still. A sentence, a sentence fragment and not a singly fucking reinforcing point. Well argued, sir!
LiveCD DSL linux or Mac OSX Simple Finder (Score:5, Informative)
Now if you are budget minded you could do the same with Linux. Use a Live CD, configure it to boot to a browser. Remove all the other icons and don't give them permission to the apps. One of the very easiest ones to configure this way is DSL linux which has the benefit of booting very very very fast from CD and running on old, memory starved hardware, and being parcimonous about screen realestate. However, for you i'd recomend DSL-N (not DSL) as that is more modern.
If you are not budget minded, it would be smarter to go with the mac. several reasons
1) lots of plugins will be easier to use. likepdf support in the browser itself, (flash quicktime silverlight....)
2) some folks there might want a real computer too. The liveCD linux boot will be constraining. Macs, have faster user switching so you can corral the people who need the simple finder but let other use it in advanced mode.
3) Eventually they may want to add a few more apps. maybe they want for example to have podcasts. google earth. Watch DVDs
4) you can keep a mac secure without going crazy. You can even firmware lock it to keep the wiseguys at bay.
5) it's easier to attach portable disks, second or external screens, cameras, etc... to the mac. No sys admin needed.
6) If you need support you can call apple and so can they if you are not around.
7) For desktops there are no cables and they are easy to adjust to viewing angles (like for a wheel chair)
8) easier to use applications, should they want them.
Mac OSX Simple Finder (Score:4, Insightful)
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You could certainly build a linux box that was similar (though it would lose compatibility with some sites), but if so
Re:LiveCD DSL linux or Mac OSX Simple Finder (Score:5, Informative)
There is an easier way to do it with Linux than live CD. Much higher performance as well.
Start with a full install of Debian or Ubuntu or any other distribution that strictly complies to the fs standard and does not write into /usr. Build it with separate /,/var,usr and use tmpfs /tmp /var/tmp. Install all necessary plugins. Once you are happy with the result switch /usr to read-only mode. Do not give them a root password and provide sudo instructions for the visiting grandchildren if the golden age customer asks them to install something in addition.
This has been tested on a Golden Age customer (my mom) and this setup is the first machine she has had so far that does not require any maintenance. It just works regardless of powercuts, cats sleeping on the keyboard, etc. She had a windows before that and it got trojaned with a dialer hijacker which clocked her an insane phone bill. It also worked 10% of the time. During the rest it was suffering from various windowsy degenerative diseases. Prior to that she had a linux with a normal read-write install and she successfully managed to f*** it up by pressing the power button during fsck a couple of times.
Re:LiveCD DSL linux or Mac OSX Simple Finder (Score:5, Interesting)
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I will also add the following trick to this. You can safely test any improvements, configs, desktop settings, locks etc with a 5 year old prior to deployment. If it works and he does not break it, you can safely roll it out onto the unsuspecting golden age population.
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So, wait...you're suggesting that visiting strangers should have sudo instructions/access but not the main users of the machines? I can't imagine that applications would be installed so frequently as to be problematic for the OP to install, thereby maintaining security and avoiding apparently-random changes to the installation. Plus the consensu
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The OAP has the possibility to elevate his privileges to install an applications and has the instructions on how to do it.
Based on experience the OAPs never ever uses that. He/She always coopts visiting grandchildren to do that. While you can create them an account as well it always ends up being done from the OAP account as well so no need to do that./
In the meantime he/she has 0 privileges on the machine and keeps on using it and it does not break.
By the way - these are simple practical observations on
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Re:Turn Off Javascript (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Turn Off Javascript (Score:4, Informative)
When the user is done with the computer, just reboot, and it will be back to its original configuration. If users need a 10MB space or whatever for bookmarks, load them to an internal webpage, or allow that space on a spare computer.
No mess, no fuss, easy.
Disclaimer: I used deep freeze on my grandmother's computer because i grew tired of hearing about broken things every time I visited. That was several years back, and I have not heard a peep since.
Install the Wikipedia search plugin too (Score:4, Interesting)
Sifting the signal from the noise in a typical google search is just too complex for people that are computer novices as well as internet novices. But show them the Wikipedia plugin, where they can just search on whatever they're curious about and immediately get a single response that probably answers their question, and they'll immediately grasp just how cool the internet can be and they'll want to learn more.
I usually set windows to large or extra-large fonts, too. Just ask them which setting they find most comfortable while they are in front of the computer.
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(hey, if Nigerian scams work...)
Give them some responsibility (Score:5, Insightful)
I would suggest something like the OLPC as an everything. Yes, it's geared for children but I guess you're kind of dealing with ... well, in some cases degenerated minds.
'In some cases' is the key phrase here. In most homes there will be enough people who are perfectly capable of using a computer.
In short, my advice is to find the one of them with the most clue or potential for clue and make him/her the sys admin. Then let them do what they like.
I work in geriatric psychiatry and my group has been interviewing older people in institutions to understand in what way their needs are or are not being met. A common theme that arises among the cognitively intact (who are quite often smarter than most of us) is that they feel useless, they can see there are needs within their environment that are not met and they are not empwered to do anything about it. This upsets them greatly.
You've probably got people in your home who were in techincal jobs before they retired, and are more than capable of looking after a couple of PCs. Give them some Linux CDs or Windows or whatever and a good book and let them figure it out. They've probably got nothing better to do.
They'll feel empowered, they'll teach their friends, and leave you alone. Don't patronise them, don't give them a crippled system.
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I even removed the hard drives, boots from a old useless 256 meg CF card (80X card) stuck in a $2.00 adapter in the IDE
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There is also this device http://www.linutop.com/ [linutop.com] never used it or heard much about it but it certainly seems interesting.
Re:Turn Off Javascript (Score:4, Informative)
You bet they do. I'm nearing 70 and my prebyopia (limited ability to bend the eye's lens) is much less advanced than most of my contemporaries. Still, though I'm sitting about 50cm from the monitor because that's the closest I can focus this year. I have to wear reading glasses to read books except in really bright light because my arms just won't stretch far enough any more.
The problem is that most geeks and web designers are young and fairly unconscious. They design screens that the elderly can't possibly read at the intended resolution and are difficult to cope with when font sizes are increased. They'll probably figure out that wasn't such a great idea in a few decades (presbyopia often sets in as early as age 45). But that won't help the folks they have unecessarily inconvenienced. And, BTW, not all vision problems in the elderly can be fully corrected with glasses.
Obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Obvious (Score:5, Funny)
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I'm going to assume you're kidding.
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It didn't even occur to me until I read your post.
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So, you must get so confused when you leave your basement.
Old People need more than that! (Score:5, Insightful)
My first thought was to do a Linux livecd of some sort (or MacOS or BartPE or OpenBSD if you're not a Linux fan.) You *should* be able to do a pretty safe read-only-/usr environment instead, which will perform better and be a bit more reliable, and you can build yourself a reinstall-everything CD/DVD to fix things in case it's acting up - just try to find some way to preserve any user account settings. VMWare or User-Mode Linux or Xen can make it easy to build a heavy-duty sandbox environment to make it easier to keep the basic system safe if you want.
The important part of the user's interface to the operating system is that if they turn the power switch off and then on again, everything will work as if it were loading from scratch. Maybe they need to type in their name and a password, or maybe not.
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You've sort of bracketed the right answer there. Almost all malware attacks today are aimed at Windows users. Using Windows pretty much mandates using a virus checker that will need to be attended to. And a firewall and/or NAT router is pretty much mandatory with Windows. The specifications say minimal maintenance. So Windows is probably the wrong OS for this applica
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Wii (Score:5, Interesting)
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Firefox in kiosk mode? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Firefox in kiosk mode? (Score:5, Informative)
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As another poster noted below, you don't even really need a WM. Just run firefox in your x session and nothing else. On exit, you could have a default profile copied over for the next person.
Re:Firefox in kiosk mode? (Score:4, Informative)
Read-only home directory. (Score:2)
But short of that, the way to make it truly bulletproof is to make absolutely nothing writable that doesn't have to be. That way, even if someone manages to find a way to download something, they won't be able to do anything with it. A "noexec" flag on that partition might help.
This does NOT mean a LiveCD environment -- you wan
Live CD (Score:3, Informative)
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VMWare to the rescue! (Score:5, Informative)
VMWare Player is free - have at it!
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Even go a step further and create a new copy of the 'virgin' setup every time you reboot. If anything goes wrong just reboot.
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Yes, someone did just put your sig through 5 rounds of base 64 decoding...
LAME!
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Re:VMWare to the rescue! (Score:4, Informative)
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Linux with Firefox and no window manager (Score:4, Informative)
Why make life difficult on yourself?
suggestion: (Score:4, Funny)
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please, pass me the acid.
DSL (Score:4, Funny)
Boot off CD, to RAM if possible, and enjoy the internet.
100% worry free computer usage.
If they want the computer to do more than just the internet, tell
them the instructions are available, on the internet. Have fun.
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Ubuntu? (Score:2)
Pretty hard to install spyware when it's not compatible with the system.
Hell, you can run it from a live CD if you want, then they'd have a really hard time screwing it up.
Opera on Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
Dlugar
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Re:Opera on Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
Opera Kiosk Mode (Score:5, Informative)
Designed to be used at public terminals. Bonus points for installing it on Linux.
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Some example options:
- Lock to fullscreen mode
- Disable all protocols exc
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Virtual Machine (Score:2)
Just make sure that your VM supports being run in full screen mode.
Use Kiosk Software (Score:3, Informative)
Gentoo Linux and Firefox Kiosk (Score:3, Informative)
- ssh (for remote administration)
- xorg
- Firefox( I think there is a kiosk mode addon, and you'll have to install security updates every couple of weeks)
- dwm (remove the status bar and add rules to tag all firefox window the same)
and run it all as a user with only read/write permission to firefox's cache.
You can't disable javascript because so many websites stupidly depend on it.
I've seen some sites that don't display anything if javascript is disabled.
- Jesse McNelis
Write a program tthat browses (Score:5, Funny)
Then they can pass it around, etc. Sort of like bookmark sharing.
MSNTV (Score:2)
try thin clients or boot cd's (Score:3, Informative)
set up a pretty decent single computer (running linux of course) and hook several terminals to it. have them either boot up like LTSP or do a small install and get X remotely. they could log in and you can set up what apps they have access to. if they aren'[t computer literate, they won't know firefox on linux from firefox on XP. and it's a bit safer, I'd wager.
or, remoce (or just unplug) the hard drives and give them boto cd's like ubuntu. or just leve the cd's in the drive. you can make a custom ubuntu cd which has only basic browsing, plus can already be set up for proxies, etc.
either way, it's gonna be hard to mess up the system. that's my $0.02. more work up front, far less down the road.
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Kiosk w LTSP (Score:2)
My personal preference would be to roll out a thin client setup using Linux thin clients w firefox in kiosk mode as a full-screen login session. No viruses, if it crashes you reset it, etc. Simple - if you know some Linux. K12LTSP is helpful for those not already familiar with DHCP, tftp, etc and who lack an existing server infrastructure. Even if you do have an existing solid network I'd strongly recommend the LTSP base as a s
s/basic/starter/g (Score:2)
A Simple Solution (Score:3, Informative)
Come-on, never heard of a kiosk? (Score:3, Insightful)
Zonbu (Score:2)
Zonbu [zonbu.com]
Yes, there's a subscription fee, but if you compare it to the price of off-site storage (which it is, plus more), you'll see it's quite reasonable.
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Windows CE Thin Terminals (Score:2)
Most of the modern ones have a basic version of IE built-in, and can be configured to boot up from their flash disk and just run as an Internet browser. All you need to provide is a DHCP server so they can obtain an IP address and they can immediately surf the web from any network.
I have one at home for friends to "check their email" when I don't want
BartPE and Firefox Kiosk plugin (Score:2)
I think I'd make a bootable bartpe cdrom, and put firefox on there using the kiosk plugin.
A few plugins, java, and a couple basic bookmarks, and your done.
Hardware wise, I'd have external volume, and a screen blanker.
Plus the bartpe reboots every 24 hours to make m$ happy.
firefox+wine (Score:2)
a list of extensions that might just fix this little problem:
adblock [kills ads]
no script [again kills ads, helps against any javas
OpenDNS should be your first stop... (Score:2)
1) OpenDNS - block a lot of phishing and adult sites before it even reaches their computer.
2) Get them an iMac - it's simple to use and most of the hacking world does not care about MacOS. Plus, unlike Linux there's a lot of support documentation on the net that a user can tap into (and understand).
3) Firefox - Safari is nice but Firefox has more ad-blocking and anti-phishing extensions that make the Internet a safer place.
4) Gmail - ditching Outlook will save you a world of hurt.
Jamie Zawinski has already done this. (Score:2, Interesting)
Buy a Nintendo Wii (Score:2)
Buy them a Nintendo Wii and download Opera for it.
* It works on any TV they have, so no need to purchase a computer, find a place for a desk, etc.
* It is a easy browsing experience, with built in zoom (helpful for older eyes).
* It can do web-based e-mail, can surf the web, and view videos, etc.
* It has a built in Weather and News channels service that are intuitive and fun
* Plus, the included game (Wii Sports) might be very enjoyable and useful for maintaining activity (particularly Bowling and Golf,
Knoppix in kiosk mode.... (Score:2)
Security (Score:5, Informative)
As every poster has pointed out, you can rock-solid a computer with Kiosk modes, virtual machines, etc, etc. But if you're going to put a tool like the Internet into the hands of (shall we say) "unskilled" users, you have a responsibility to protect them from the baddies.
Before anyone gets on the computer for the first time, drill some basic saftey tips into them. Do not give out passwords. Do not give out personal data. Do not give out financial data. Not to anyone, no matter how legit it looks. For many, this is probably their first experience on the internet. You cannot take for granted that they have been ingrained with The Basics. They don't know about Phishing. They don't know people can make a website that looks exactly like their banks' website. They don't know about Nigeran princes. Their bases have only every belonged to them.
Print out some Golden Rules, and post them in the computer lab/common area/whatever. If the computers are going to be in the resident's apartments, make sure you print out something that can be stuck to the monitory.
Send them out to play, but not in traffic.
You can do some things behind the scenes as well. Route everything through a gateway you control. Make sure you have some good security on it. Go grab PeerGuardian's list, and maybe mvps.org's host file. Keep it up to date so that it blocks all the well known phishing sites. Concider blocking any outbound request for an IP address (rather than an URL). Run a mail server with a kickass spam filter, and give them all their own email boxes. (grandpaAbe@shadyacres.com). It also makes it easier to whitelist their friends&family email addresses to let legit attachments through.
Try running guided tours of the Internet. Don't just pluck them down and say "here you go". Show them good places to go, and how to get there. News sites. Wikipedia. National Geographic's site. Typing Tutor sites. Maybe some instructional courses: How to use Flickr to view and post family albums. How to edit a Wikipedia article about the hometown they grew up in (and know everything about... preserve the knowledge!)
Do this right, and not only will you have safe comptuers-- but you'll also have safe, happy, productive users.
Depends on what you want (Score:3, Insightful)
If you are really, REALLY only interested in a browser, then Firefox on Linux takes the cake. VMWare-based solutions are overcomplicated and under-performing. Firefox on Linux has the following neat qualities:
1) Once configured with well supported hardware, it's nearly impossible to hork without the root password.
2) cron can automagically apply updates (via yum on RPM distros, apt on Debian derivatives) via cron.
3) Viruses are rare to non-existent. (See #1)
4) Usability is good - it's not hard to teach somebody how to use it.
5) Compatability is decent. (not all flash/shockwave/java thingies work without a bit of crabbing, but it's usually doable)
6) Works wonderfully with that old 1.5 Ghz P4 you got at the yard sale for $80.
7) Remote support is decent. You can ssh in, forward X11 to your local system, and see whatever they see.
But, if you want MORE than the basics (EG: a browser + Internet connection) and might want to give the users a full computer (TM) then I'd strongly recommend a Mac. They can be had used for fairly cheap, almost all will run OSX, and I've never seen a computer that I've had fewer problems with when my 6 kids bring over their 27 friends to my (forever messy) kid-friendly house.
If they are more expensive, it comes back rather quickly in "OMFG IT JUST FRICKKEN WORX!" savings. (but don't expect Windows Media support anytime soon)
And, in case you are curious, I'm a long-term Linux geek, my laptop runs Fedora Core 6, my servers are all CentOS 4.x and I love 'em. They are rock-solid and the servers deliver 99.95% uptime. (most of the last 0.05% is not because of software problems, either)
Linux is fabulous for servers, passable for a deskop, mostly due to lack of 3rd party support.. MacOS is the opposite - teh shiznit for desktop systems thanks to great OS and decent 3rd party support, but only passable for a server.
Windows is, at best, median at either - although it's a crappy solution to both desktop and server issues, the industry 3rd party support makes up for much of the rotting carcass that is the Win32 API.
I have to disagree.... (Score:2)
Of course, something new gets invented down the ro
SimpleC (Score:2)
lynx (Score:5, Funny)
"These folks don't need any sophistication. and they need only the most basic options."
Don't underestimate your elders (Score:3, Insightful)
I disagree.
Used imaginatively, the computer can break down the physical isolation of the elderly and disabled. Help them to read, to write, to speak their mind freely. Don't deny them the benefits of e-mail, instant messaging and chat.
Don't deny them a printer. Encourage them to personalize their small - institutionalized -space with letters, photographs, graphics of every kind. Let them fill scrapbooks, albums.
There is so much out there that they would enjoy.
My grandmother loved the sentimental artwork of the Victorians, Coolidge's poker-playing dogs.
If they are lucky, there will be - one - Reading Radio station programmed to their needs and tastes. On the Internet, there may be dozens, hundreds.
Don't ignore the mental and physical challenge of online games and puzzles.
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Macs also tend to be pleasant, reliable machines, and out-of-the-box mych less prone to gremlins...
--
Tom
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A browser and Gmail or Yahoo will be fine. Administering a bunch of rotating clients e-mail accounts increases the complexity. This moves the admin job from you to an online provider as needed. This is most helpful if you are not doing individual user logins but just one always o
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The server runs Squid and the terminals can be any old junk. Our Athlon 2500+ with 512 megs of ram happily runs 10-12 terminals over a 100 mbit ethernet connection. We use old 2gb hard dri