An anonymous reader writes "Here in the US, the Google purchase of Doubleclick is old news. Despite a fewhiccups, the news of April and May seems well in the past. In the European Union, though, the discussion begins anew again as Google seeks permission from EU antitrust regulators. From the article: 'The European Commission said it had set a review deadline of October 26, when it could approve the deal, give a two-week extension or open an in-depth, four-month investigation ... The Commission has already sent questionnaires asking competitors and customers what they think about the deal. Google has already filed with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission and with the Australian competition regulator.'"
Is there any reason why they would say anything other than "this will hurt us competitively"? It only makes business sense to prevent Google from acquiring whenever you can. This seems equivalent to the FCC asking the telecoms how they feel about Google buying/leasing some airwaves.
I've a question: who'll protect us from the monopoly of the EU? Did anyone ask YOU if you want them protecting your rights in THIS particular fashion?
The EU anti-competitive laws are set up to regulate the EU common market. The common market was set up as a multinational treaty. It is your goverments fault that it did not consult you before it entered this treaty, not the organization that was a result of this treaty. If you have issues with article 82 in this treaty, then you need to address your own gov
The bias though which the community spins EU's actions is hilarious, but I see this is consistent to what they did with Microsoft, charging them nearly a billion because they shipped a video player in their OS.
Look who spins!
Microsoft is still being investigated because they continue to spoil the playing field for others.
In Europe, just like the USofA, a company in a near-monopoly situation has greater obligations than a start up, Microsoft continues to challenge that notion.
Of course the EU commission could have picked better examples, like opening the specs to allow access to NTFS and supporting Samba.
I've a question: who'll protect us from the monopoly of the EU? Did anyone ask YOU if you want them protecting your rights in THIS particular fashion?
I feel very happy we have an active EU commission.
The problem is they see these things as a legal challenge while I would like more technical issues like interoperability being discussed.
Did someone ask you when EU slapped VAT and sales tax on online purchases? Do I have a choice, short of moving to a different continent.
I would find it weird, even unacceptable, when internet companies would have a tax advantage over a regular one.
So charging the local/national VAT at the place of destination sounds, as far as any sales tax goes, really fair for all.
I've a question: who'll protect us from the monopoly of the EU? Did anyone ask YOU if you want them protecting your rights in THIS particular fashion? Did someone ask you when EU slapped VAT and sales tax on online purchases? Do I have a choice, short of moving to a different continent.
They ask me, the European citizen. The candidate I voted for ran on that platform, and is now doing what he promised when I voted for him.
Probably that most politicians say one thing and does to other...
Or that it's impossible to find a politician that agree with everything you want... It especially hard to find any politicians with interest in computers etc... Since the majority of votes don't care about these issues, nobody borders to have a clear policy on these issues...
Though I as a European would say that like the EU. Maybe it's democracy could be better... And once in a while you may argue that EU officials have a lot of power, and
But you would have problems getting advertisers since you have a small viewer range. And you would have problems getting sites to use your system, since you don't payout much yet, lacking advertisers.
The counter argument is if it's so easy, then why would Google trouble themselves to purchase Double-click? Especially since Google already has their own existing advertising programme... so all they need to do is, extend it to take their competitors customers???
So I guess Google's intent with purchasing Double-click is actually to purchase Double-clicks customers.
That said, I find it hard to find a good argument against. It *is* comparatively easy to setup a similar business, so if Google subsequently
Noone is saying it's anti-competitive. They're saying it might be anti-competitive. There's less choice for the consumer. Prior to Google buying DoubleClick someone wanting to purchase adverts had a few choices between 3 similarly sized networks (Google, DoubleClick and Yahoo) plus a handful of smaller players. Since the merger there's one behemoth and noone even close to the same sort of size, and consequently noone in a position to offer the same sort of service. If Google wanted to they could reduce their prices too (economies of scale coming into effect). They have effectively bought themselves into the position of a monopoly. All the EU are doing is checking if that's really the case or if the market is still open for consumers to shop around.
All the EU are doing is checking if that's really the case or if the market is still open for consumers to shop around.
In this case you need to distinguish between "consumers" (i.e. you or me) and "customers" (i.e. people wishing to advertise online). And the question (that the EU will be asking) is whether people (in the EU) wanting to advertise or host advertising online will get screwed over by this deal.
No idea what the outcome of this investigation will be though. One question I'd have would be whether the online market be considered to be distinct from the real-world market? And would scale effects online prevent oth
All the EU are doing is checking if that's really the case or if the market is still open for consumers to shop around.
In this case you need to distinguish between "consumers" (i.e. you or me) and "customers" (i.e. people wishing to advertise online).
No, the term "consumers" still applies here. Google produces advertising opportunities; advertisers consume them. That makes the advertisers consumers in this context.
I could set up my own OS right now and sell it cheaper then Google offers and there is nothing they could do to stop me. Now of course an OS is slightly harder to build then an ad sense service, however the existence of Linux and Apple hasn't stopped the EU going after Microsoft.
One hopes such spotlights (or prospects thereof) will help deter Google from the temptations of the dark side... I'm sure those who remember using Google when it first came out simply to find better image galleries would like to still believe in the "we're not evil" tagline;D.
This doesn't mean Google is anticompetitive, more like the competition is incompetent. It isn't Google who closed EU for Yahoo, and it isn't Google who set M$'s business plan.
That is not a monopoly. There is nothing stopping anybody from creating a brand new business generating ads like Doubleclick. Only governments and thugs get in the way of new business/innovation from occurring (yes I'm referring to the EU Commision).
Microsoft isn't a monopoly either then. The laws trigger on someone taking the majority of the market, not the whole market because otherwise a company could keep a puppet competitor around to avoid monopoly status and because one company holding the vast majority of the market is bad enough already.
The European Commission said it had set a review deadline of October 26, when it could approve the deal, give a two-week extension or open an in-depth, four-month investigation
It's not friction unless the EU doesn't approve the deal on October 26. Until then, this is normal process. I would question who this "anonymous reader" who submitted the misleading headline is.
Hey, this headline isn't exciting at all! I mean, why do you think I come to Slashdot in the first place, if not for the sensationalism?? Well, to be sure, the headline spuriously adds this thing about "friction" just because the EU says, "Okay, we'll check out this Google purchase of Doubleclick and will tell you next month whether there might be problems," but "experiences friction" just doesn't have the same punchy feel to it. After all, when a police bring in the apparent sender of a bomb threat and re
What is getting out of hand?
The EU has never stated they have a problem with this purchase, they are only investigating as is their duty to keep business in it's jurisdiction fair.
Monopolies and similar have always hurt people.
In this particular case (the result of Google+Double Click) it's maybe not directly disadvantageous for the regular consumer but it's potentially a problem for companies depending on internet advertising.
And due to their sheer size they might make competition al but impossible.
I was going to argue with you, but I clicked your website (to see what country you're in). I don't want to argue any more; you're hot, wear black and have similar musical taste to me.
(Well, anyway: the EU is helping startups here, by allowing fairer competition and reducing the likelihood of a single company excluding small businesses from the market. They seem to give grants to small businesses as well [europa.eu].):-)
If only there were some way to look up past decisions, such as a web page which might return a list of results, when presented with a query.
Yes - the EU fines lots of companies regardless of where they're based. Just because the DOJ has no bollocks, doesn't mean everyone else has to roll over for big companies.
I recall two big Scandinavian dairies merge... The Danish competition authorizes spend a long time before allowing the deal...
There's many examples, many are handled by the different national competition authorities...
I wonder if the EU would be so vigilant if Google was started and owned by a pair of Europeans?
Actually, yes. Most antitrust action in the EU has been concerning European companies, not outside ones. And if anything, the commission tends to be harsher towards those than others (since it violates the idea of free trade within the EU).
Oh yes! Look up the Volvo-Scania case, for instance. And that's just one example of many.
I wonder why Americans always become so defensive when an US firm is has to deal with non-US policy makers. No, the rest of the world is not out to get you.
That would explain why the EU only ever investigates foreign companies...
Oh wait, what's that? they investigate Foreign and EU companies.. Oh The US investigates US and foreign companies for this kind of behaviour too? Oh and the commission is to ensure that *customers* don't get a poor deal? its not about promoting one company over another?
My god, how can we live with this horrible intrusion into the free market, which only effects all companies?
Wait a minute - how come you didn't complain when VW or SAS or Maersk Air, or Hoechst AG, or Peaugot were fined? See what a 2 minute web search can do? That's from a single page, all in one year, take a look at the EU website and see how many fines have been issued against EU and foreign companies. Whilst you are at it, take a look at how many companies have been investigated, because at the end of the day, all that is happening is that a deal that Google has put together that clearly *does* change the on-line advertising market, the EU wants to make sure that that change will not be detrimental to consumers. Hardly a protectionist and anti-American attack (OR should I say that it is not commercial-terrorism?). The EU *is* in part there to encourage and grow EU business, it is also there to protect its own internal market (see the tariffs and penalties imposed against foreign nations, in the same way as they are imposed on the EU), and if it didn't exist Google would be facing investigations not by one commission, but by the individual bodies of each of the current member states (I'm sure some are investigating anyway).
I'm sick and tired of US bashing in the EU and EU bashing from the US. Much of what is discussed in the media in terms of economics is nothing short of propaganda (Although I must say that the US is better at propaganda, or maybe European's are better at seeing through it), see what we have had recently with china, or the reaction in the UK to the US sub prime credit collapse.
If people could put aside their national bias for a day, we might be able to make this free-market globalisation thing work, but that is not likely, instead we will take taxpayers money and use it to prop up ailing businesses (as if they have a *right* to survive) or use it to prevent others from entering our markets. That's the US and Europe (and much of the rest of the world). Either practice capitalism, or scrap it and work out a way of organising an economy that benefits the citizens of the world rather than a few mega-corporations.
Bit of a rant, but come on, this is so far a non story, for the EU it is the sensible thing to do, it s not anti-American, it is ensuring that the consumer (thats me and you) get a good deal.
Yes, Few years ago, the EU didn't approve a merger between two big French industrial industries. Schneider and Legrand. Schneider lost billions in this affair (If I remember well, they had to resell shares of something). But the EU court voted in favor of Schneider and the EU had to compensate a part of this loss. http://www.arcweb.com/txtlstvw.aspx?LstID=2a4b621b-e581-471b-9f78-98c4f01409c6 [arcweb.com]
There are others like France Telecom forced to resell a subsidiary in Belgium. Merger in Austria forbidden, and plenty o
Also keep in mind that Google has a European HQ in Dublin. In a limited but real sense, within Europe Google *is* a European company. Of course they'll be subject to EU regulations and laws.
What's the fuss about anyway? So Google buy Double-Click. What for? Isn't a piece of spyware anyway? At least Google is using it that way. I can't really see a difference between a company forcing targetted results onto unsuspecting netters.
Maybe postmortem is the anonymous reader who submitted the article and feels the discussion is moving away from where s/he was hoping it would go... sort of firing literary maneuvering (sp?) thrusters.
Asking the competitors what they think.. (Score:1)
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The EU anti-competitive laws are set up to regulate the EU common market. The common market was set up as a multinational treaty. It is your goverments fault that it did not consult you before it entered this treaty, not the organization that was a result of this treaty. If you have issues with article 82 in this treaty, then you need to address your own gov
Re:Asking the competitors what they think.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft is still being investigated because they continue to spoil the playing field for others.
In Europe, just like the USofA, a company in a near-monopoly situation has greater obligations than a start up, Microsoft continues to challenge that notion.
Of course the EU commission could have picked better examples, like opening the specs to allow access to NTFS and supporting Samba.
The problem is they see these things as a legal challenge while I would like more technical issues like interoperability being discussed.
So charging the local/national VAT at the place of destination sounds, as far as any sales tax goes, really fair for all.
Parent
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They ask me, the European citizen. The candidate I voted for ran on that platform, and is now doing what he promised when I voted for him.
If you disagree, vote for someone else.
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How is it anti-competitive? (Score:4, Insightful)
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But you would have problems getting advertisers since you have a small viewer range.
And you would have problems getting sites to use your system, since you don't payout much yet, lacking advertisers.
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So I guess Google's intent with purchasing Double-click is actually to purchase Double-clicks customers.
That said, I find it hard to find a good argument against. It *is* comparatively easy to setup a similar business, so if Google subsequently
Re:How is it anti-competitive? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
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All the EU are doing is checking if that's really the case or if the market is still open for consumers to shop around.
In this case you need to distinguish between "consumers" (i.e. you or me) and "customers" (i.e. people wishing to advertise online). And the question (that the EU will be asking) is whether people (in the EU) wanting to advertise or host advertising online will get screwed over by this deal.
No idea what the outcome of this investigation will be though. One question I'd have would be whether the online market be considered to be distinct from the real-world market? And would scale effects online prevent oth
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No, the term "consumers" still applies here. Google produces advertising opportunities; advertisers consume them. That makes the advertisers consumers in this context.
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Vigilant Spotlight = Less Trouble Ahead? (Score:1)
Re:EU is right (Score:4, Insightful)
It isn't Google who closed EU for Yahoo, and it isn't Google who set M$'s business plan.
Parent
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misleading headline (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not friction unless the EU doesn't approve the deal on October 26. Until then, this is normal process. I would question who this "anonymous reader" who submitted the misleading headline is.
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And the anonymous reader is most likely a M$ shill.
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Hey!!! Where's my sensationalist headline? (Score:2)
After all, when a police bring in the apparent sender of a bomb threat and re
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The EU has never stated they have a problem with this purchase, they are only investigating as is their duty to keep business in it's jurisdiction fair.
Monopolies and similar have always hurt people.
In this particular case (the result of Google+Double Click) it's maybe not directly disadvantageous for the regular consumer but it's potentially a problem for companies depending on internet advertising.
And due to their sheer size they might make competition al but impossible.
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No.
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(Well, anyway: the EU is helping startups here, by allowing fairer competition and reducing the likelihood of a single company excluding small businesses from the market. They seem to give grants to small businesses as well [europa.eu].)
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A European company? (Score:1, Flamebait)
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Yes - the EU fines lots of companies regardless of where they're based. Just because the DOJ has no bollocks, doesn't mean everyone else has to roll over for big companies.
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Oh yes! Look up the Volvo-Scania case, for instance. And that's just one example of many.
I wonder why Americans always become so defensive when an US firm is has to deal with non-US policy makers. No, the rest of the world is not out to get you.
Re:A European company? (Score:4, Informative)
Oh wait, what's that? they investigate Foreign and EU companies.. Oh
The US investigates US and foreign companies for this kind of behaviour too?
Oh and the commission is to ensure that *customers* don't get a poor deal? its not about promoting one company over another?
My god, how can we live with this horrible intrusion into the free market, which only effects all companies?
Wait a minute - how come you didn't complain when VW or SAS or Maersk Air, or Hoechst AG, or Peaugot were fined? See what a 2 minute web search can do? That's from a single page, all in one year, take a look at the EU website and see how many fines have been issued against EU and foreign companies. Whilst you are at it, take a look at how many companies have been investigated, because at the end of the day, all that is happening is that a deal that Google has put together that clearly *does* change the on-line advertising market, the EU wants to make sure that that change will not be detrimental to consumers. Hardly a protectionist and anti-American attack (OR should I say that it is not commercial-terrorism?). The EU *is* in part there to encourage and grow EU business, it is also there to protect its own internal market (see the tariffs and penalties imposed against foreign nations, in the same way as they are imposed on the EU), and if it didn't exist Google would be facing investigations not by one commission, but by the individual bodies of each of the current member states (I'm sure some are investigating anyway).
I'm sick and tired of US bashing in the EU and EU bashing from the US. Much of what is discussed in the media in terms of economics is nothing short of propaganda (Although I must say that the US is better at propaganda, or maybe European's are better at seeing through it), see what we have had recently with china, or the reaction in the UK to the US sub prime credit collapse.
If people could put aside their national bias for a day, we might be able to make this free-market globalisation thing work, but that is not likely, instead we will take taxpayers money and use it to prop up ailing businesses (as if they have a *right* to survive) or use it to prevent others from entering our markets. That's the US and Europe (and much of the rest of the world). Either practice capitalism, or scrap it and work out a way of organising an economy that benefits the citizens of the world rather than a few mega-corporations.
Bit of a rant, but come on, this is so far a non story, for the EU it is the sensible thing to do, it s not anti-American, it is ensuring that the consumer (thats me and you) get a good deal.
Parent
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Schneider and Legrand. Schneider lost billions in this affair (If I remember well, they had to resell shares of something). But the EU court voted in favor of Schneider and the EU had to compensate a part of this loss.
http://www.arcweb.com/txtlstvw.aspx?LstID=2a4b621b-e581-471b-9f78-98c4f01409c6 [arcweb.com]
There are others like France Telecom forced to resell a subsidiary in Belgium. Merger in Austria forbidden, and plenty o
Regulator approval.. (Score:1)
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What's the fuss about anyway? (Score:1)
So Google buy Double-Click. What for?
Isn't a piece of spyware anyway? At least Google is using it that way. I can't really see a difference between a company forcing targetted results onto unsuspecting netters.
Just my rant. Sorry.
Re:EU is just taxing innovation that is not their (Score:2)
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Or postmortem's a moron.