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Comments: 220 +-   Internet Explorer Drops WGA Requirement on Friday October 05 2007, @06:33AM

Posted by CowboyNeal on Friday October 05 2007, @06:33AM
from the while-the-getting-is-good dept.
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Kelson writes "The Internet Explorer team has updated the installer for IE7. Mostly they've adjusted a few defaults and updated their tutorials, but one change stands out: The installer no longer requires Windows Genuine Advantage validation. Almost a year after its release, IE7 has yet to overtake its predecessor. Was WGA holding back a tide of potential upgrades, or did it just send people over to alternative browsers?"
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Submission: Internet Explorer Drops WGA Requirement by Kelson (129150)
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  • Market share beats anti-piracy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2007, @06:40AM (#20865661)
    It's finally clear where Microsoft's priorities lie. You can pirate until they have a dominant place in the market.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Jugalator (259273)
      IE already have a dominant place, but yeah.
    • Wouldnt that mean IE7 should have had no WGA requirement, then the WGA requirement added.. rather than the other way around?
    • Pfft. Firefox has the same business model.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by ajs318 (655362)
        Except that with Firefox, you get the Source Code. Unless you speak fluent Pentium assembly language, there's a world of difference.
    • It's finally clear where Microsoft's priorities lie. You can pirate until they have a dominant place in the market....

      I agree with this market share thing, but I think it's about the operating system, not the browser that Microsoft is worried about... let me explain.

      People who get fed up of Windows try Linux... but most office apps still need some Windows componenets. MS Office existing licenses account for lots of installations. So it's not that simple to move the entire OS - but the browser is easily the

  • Most people... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MrNemesis (587188) on Friday October 05 2007, @06:51AM (#20865727) Homepage Journal
    ...wouldn't have known it was there. The WGA requirement means that you actively have to log into Windows Update and say "yes, I want IE7" or actively locate an IE7 installer. Your average computer user won't even know which version of IE they're using, much less will have any idea there's a new version out and why they should bother installing it.

    If IE7 doesn't have the WGA thing, then presumably it's going to be automatically installed with the rest of the updates whihc most users have set to automatic (since that's how the computer came configured).

    So yes, expect the installed base to increase significantly, and I imagine a reasonably increase in usage as well - alot of people will find it better than any other browser they're using (stupid, uncustomisable button layout notwithstanding).
    • If IE7 doesn't have the WGA thing, then presumably it's going to be automatically installed with the rest of the updates whihc most users have set to automatic (since that's how the computer came configured).

      Well spotted! After the sneaky update on XP and Vista, it looks like IE7 will be the next sneaky update on 'pirated' XP as well. I get a feeling most antivirus and spyware kits have got the hang of IE6 by now; but IE7 is very messy, confusing and downright irritating. I simply gave up after an hour.

      I

  • and menu bar enabled by default (finally!) (Score:5, Informative)

    by MojoStan (776183) on Friday October 05 2007, @07:20AM (#20865967)
    I think the re-enabled (by default) menu bar is just as important as the dropped WGA requirement. For novice/intermediate Windows users, IE7's hidden menu bar (revealed by pressing "Alt") was needlessly confusing. Every time I've checked a friend's IE7 setup (on both XP and Vista), I've asked if they wanted the menu bar back. Not surprisingly, the answer has been "YES" every time.

    I'm guessing Microsoft wanted IE7 (and some of their other apps) to follow Office 2007's lead and get rid of the menu bar. This made sense for Office because the new contextual ribbon interface negates the need for a menu bar. It was hard to believe at first, but Office 2007 really does work better without the menu bar.

    However, removing the menu bar from IE7 made no sense IMO. IE7 didn't implement a ribbon interface (which wouldn't work for this app anyway), but they still removed the menu bar and seemingly tried to put all important functions on the button bar. Requiring a keyboard shorcut ("Alt") to access the menu was annoying to me and probably frustrating to novice/intermediate users.

    I think this simple change will significantly improve usablility. I'll still be an Opera man, though.

  • IE7 on MS VirtualPC (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Allicorn (175921) on Friday October 05 2007, @07:21AM (#20865983) Homepage
    As a web developer I've been using Microsoft's own VirtualPC doodad which they provided - for free - with a working XP Pro image that had IE6 installed on it. Since you can't really run IE6 and 7 on the same machine this was useful. One IE on my real drive, the other in the virtual machine. The problem was, I really did not want to put IE7 on the real machine.

    So anyway, I figured I'd just download IE7 on the virtualized XP Pro. Imagine my surprise when that copy of Windows, freshly downloaded from microsoft.com, failed to pass WGA validation! :-/

    Tredosoft came to the rescue of course with their various clever ways of getting different versions of IE to play (moderately) nicely together, but it still wasn't ideal.

    Now I guess I can get IE7 to work on that XP image.
    • It fails because that copy of XP is meant ONLY for testing IE 6 -- it's not a fully liscenced copy of Windows. There is a separate image available with IE 7 already.
  • It is rather common for game manufacturers to remove StarForce or other cd-tethering protection after the game has been out for a while. So, like, MS issued a no-cd patch for IE7 then?

  • Oh, now I see... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by 1001011010110101 (305349) on Friday October 05 2007, @07:26AM (#20866033)
    ...why I got last night another proposal to install MSIE7.
    I was like "WTF, I already said NO. And dont remind me again AGAIN".

    Hope it finally listens =)
  • Just the other day I was trying to repair a PC where IE7 was having a variety of issues. I installed Firefox, explained the benefits, and then attempted to use Firefox to download IE7 since he needed it for some apps for work. However, the WGA was failing with all the same problems that IE7 was failing with. The irony (yes yes, not the right word) of it was I was actively trying to get IE from Firefox, and MS wouldn't let me do it without getting a validation code from all the WGA nonsense.

    He was happy to hear about Firefox and plans on using that now instead, and after uninstalling IE7, found IE6 to be functional enough for those few times he needs it. So, while WGA is a pain in the ass, it helped convert one more person to Firefox. So I don't know how I feel about them removing it. ;-)

    • Re:Not likely (Score:5, Insightful)

      by -Neko- (67564) on Friday October 05 2007, @06:51AM (#20865721) Homepage
      Well, I think this is a push to increase security; it's harder to get any of those crappy ActiveX exploits through IE7 because of it's insane "please confirm installing a plugin 3 times" methodology. With WGA enabled you have all your legitimate Windows users using IE7 (or at least having it installed, remember IE7's browser components are used throughout XP - help files, embedded in other apps..) but everyone pirating it still uses the previous versions with no security updates installed.

      You could easily claim (and be right) that disallowing the vast majority of pirated Windows copies the latest security updates contributes to the spread of viruses, trojans and generally misappropriation of networks.

      After all, until Firefox implements some kind of MSHTML.DLL replacement scheme (would this be so difficult, really?), it is not possible to completely remove Internet Explorer from a standard Windows system (WinXP Lite etc. notwithstanding) and have it still function the same way.

      Someone should port the Wine MSHTML.DLL back to Windows.. and have it use Gecko, in order that we completely reduce the requirement of Windows on the obvious things. I think it'd have to be modified to use ActiveX controls though, there was a project for this once, I really can't work out why they abandoned it though (ActiveX security policies may be easily broken etc. but it would have the happy benefit of enabling everyone with IE-requiring internet banking etc. to use those sites, too!)

      I basically think if the guys at Firefox were really serious about putting themselves as a true alternative to IE, they would focus a little more on truly replacing IE rather than just being installed side-by-side.

      • but everyone pirating it still uses the previous versions with no security updates installed.
        Microsoft should not support and help pirates. If people want to pirate, and then spew forth lots of spam, they should be prosecuted for pirating and whatever laws there are that make distributing viruses and spam illegal.
        • You could also say that Microsoft should not support virus authors and DDoS-happy blackhats and so on by giving them 80% of the world's computers to easily crack. It's not always easy to find the guy who is hammering your servers or your corporation with spam, packet floods or spreading credit card information from your customers or whatever. Maybe you can find out what systems he used, but his address, to prosecute him? That could take forever.. or be never.

          It's a lot more responsible to stop him from doin

          • Re:Not likely (Score:5, Insightful)

            by ajs318 (655362) <{sd_resp2} {at} {earthshod.co.uk}> on Friday October 05 2007, @07:11AM (#20865907)
            That is no excuse. You can load up a computer with all the software you're likely to need [ubuntulinux.com] without ever paying a single penny for it, and without going against the wishes of the copyright holders.

            As an aside, using serious alternatives to Microsoft products will most certainly annoy Microsoft far more than using pirated copies of Microsoft products ever could.

            • Re:Not likely (Score:5, Interesting)

              by thegnu (557446) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [ungeht]> on Friday October 05 2007, @08:26AM (#20866743) Homepage Journal
              While I was not 'just a kid' in a developing country (being a white american), I grew up and worked in IT in a developing country, and here are the problems with your argument:

              1. I can get a Windows XP VLK disc from a friend. I have to download Ubuntu's installer over 28.8k (on a good day)
              2. Preparatory schools will require Windows and many Windows applications without exceptions
              3. I can't think of any other ones, but having three bullets is the least I can have for the desired visual effect.

              But really. I think Ubuntu is an excellent alternative for those who can pull it off, but you have to get a Windows computer with a CD burner, get it online, set up a download manager, download Ubuntu over the course of a few days, then install a new OS that you don't know, and access the support community from a slow-ass Internet connection. So I think 'I live in a developing country' is a quite reasonable excuse.

              In Mexico, once Microsoft introduced product activation and it failed a couple times for me, causing hours and hours of extra labor, I started suggesting to people that they not pay a week's salary (these are not the super poor people, mind you) on some crappy software, and instead just pirate the crap. It's a more user-friendly experience if you pirate it. You can install MUIs if you pirate the corporate version. It's really a no-brainer. Plus, nobody's going to investigate a dry patch of dirt in Mexico for software piracy.

              • 3. I can't think of any other ones, but having three bullets is the least I can have for the desired visual effect.
                Classy. Made my morning :)

      • After all, until Firefox implements some kind of MSHTML.DLL replacement scheme (would this be so difficult, really?)
        It's so not difficult that it's been done [www.iol.ie], though I don't know how old this is.

      • What has happened to /.??? (Score:5, Informative)

        by cayenne8 (626475) on Friday October 05 2007, @07:33AM (#20866113) Homepage Journal
        Speaking of IE.

        Like many...I'm stuck using IE6 at work. Something must have changed overnight with Slashdot...maybe some weird new CSS?

        Whatever it is...it is really messing up. It is hard to read any article....many comments don't appear to even have a reply button on them.

        That..and I'm afraid it looks like /. has implemented a automatic PAGE REFRESH mode? I hope not..I like to keep a browser open on /. all day...but, if it starts auto-refreshing, that can look like too much surfing at work.

        A the top of pages I see it autochecks an option to "Try new Slashdot discussion system". I try unchecking it each time to no-avail. I checked my preferences...and it is also set to NOT use the new system, but, it appears the new system is still being fed to me.

        Please fix this...it was bad enough that the firehose page has recently been made unusable by IE6...now the normal pages are really screwing up.

        I used FF, Safari, and the native KDE browsers at home...and they seem to work fine, but, I've got NO choice at work. Please make /. work like it did before. Simple HTML and CSS are just great....we don't need an ajax Slashdot..it is the content and the people that make the site.....not the fanciness of the site. Especially with all that added 'zing' messes up on a majorly used (unfortunately) browser.

      • After all, until Firefox implements some kind of MSHTML.DLL replacement scheme (would this be so difficult, really?), it is not possible to completely remove Internet Explorer from a standard Windows system (WinXP Lite etc. notwithstanding) and have it still function the same way. Someone should port the Wine MSHTML.DLL back to Windows.. and have it use Gecko, in order that we completely reduce the requirement of Windows on the obvious things.

        Shouldn't MS be the one fixing the problems in MS software? I can see why there aren't many people volunteering to solve what is not their problem in the first place.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by quaketripp (621850)

        I basically think if the guys at Firefox were really serious about putting themselves as a true alternative to IE, they would focus a little more on truly replacing IE rather than just being installed side-by-side.

        I'm not sure what you even mean by that? The only reason I can't run Firefox alone on a box is because some sites will only code to support IE. How is that Firefox's fault? Does that not show that Microsoft just has an unfar advantage on the market? I mean, I can't even use NetFlix' View NOW! feature through Firefox because you absolutely must use IE for whatever reason, I could go research that part, but coffee drive hasn't kicked in...I digress. The point is Firefox w/ NoScrips and ABP (sssshhhh, d

    • In my company, all the web based application that doesn't work well in IE7 and firefox were application developed with IEism and activeX components... Some have some minor displays bugs but vastly due to some IEism corrected in IE7 in the interpretation of the CSS :/

      • Re:The real reason uptake is slow... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by MrNemesis (587188) on Friday October 05 2007, @07:01AM (#20865809) Homepage Journal
        Same problem at my work. Loads of shitty web-based corporate apps rely on IE6-isms that won't work in IE7, resulting in the entire enterprise being forced to use IE6 (plus severe update lags due to inefficient and ineffective testing of patches). As such, we've had a couple of breaches via 0-day exploits targetting unpatched IE6 installs.

        Yay for the Intranet Microsoft Built.

        Oddity: IT staff don't eat their own dog food, and everyone uses FF whilst telling the users they can't have it because intranet apps "don't work with firefox". However, bring IE into the equation and the same staff will tell you "the app is shit and won't work with IE". Odd how such a pro-MS shop changes the burden of proof depending on whether the target is asociated with Linux or not

        • Oddity: IT staff don't eat their own dog food, and everyone uses FF whilst telling the users they can't have it because intranet apps "don't work with firefox".

          As an IT guy in a big organisation, via the marvels of SMS2003 I've been shown to have Firefox on my machine. I've been asked to remove it on grounds of security...sigh.

          (There is *kind* of a point to this in that we're ultralocked down for most stuff - can't change proxy in IE etc, and FF isn't centrally managed the way our standard software is. In this case it's just a particularly amusing example..)

          • Err... rebuild your machine and install TrustNoExe, then block the SMS client from running along with your domain logon scripts, etc.

            Really useful little utility, and a good way to stop users from running unauthorized crap on their machines. The ability to block logon scripts and SMS snooping is just a nice little bonus.
    • IES4Linux [tatanka.com.br] installs IE on wine in a matter of minutes, no WGA required ... :)

      In fact, I ran WGA a few months ago under wine, it validated my non-existent Windows license :)
      • Now none of us are gonna be able to get windows updates for our WINE!

        sheeesh

        PS: IE4Linux is pretty awesome, that was the selling point to get the wife on Linux.
        • IE on linux? But isn't that like duct taping kite string to a wii controller and running it to your xbox?

            • Almost like that....except it has to be an Xbox360, the Xbox wouldnt pick it up - thats the only way I got it to work. Some College websites require IE and only IE....IE4Linux saves the hassle of windows.
              I can relate with you there, but wouldn't a simple plugin like User Agent Switcher [mozilla.org] for Firefox work for you? It could fool a website into thinking that you're running IE, and I'm pretty sure that's all you'd need, because as far as I know, getting ActiveX to work under linux, even with IE4Linux, is a pain in the ass, and there's no guarantee that it'll work every time.

              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                by ArwynH (883499)

                The main reason I have IE installed is to make sure my sites work correctly under it. Stupid IE always has rendering problems. Some are due to non-standard compliance, others are just stupid. EG if in a xhtml document you have a <script ... /> tag IE6 will only display the page background, but none of the contents. You have to write it in the html way <script .. ></script> for the contents to show. It has no problem with using the short-cut with any other tags though, only the script one.

        • PS: IE4Linux is pretty awesome, that was the selling point to get the wife on Linux.

          WOW! Somebody uses this for things other than testing site layout in IE?

    • (I'm replying to this because I can't find how to reply to the main article under Slashdot's new interface. Where da buttons?!?)

      Anyhow, I noticed today that as I was doing all the latest Windows updates on a new system I'm building, IE7 is no longer listed as a critical update. At least I could not find it. I wonder what else I can't find today.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by larry bagina (561269)

        (I'm replying to this because I can't find how to reply to the main article under Slashdot's new interface. Where da buttons?!?)

        Look at the floating panel on the side ("xx Comments"). At the bottom right side is the reply link. Also, the "more" link loads up new comments without doing a page refresh.
    • Good thing my "windows" machines don't run windows. :-)

      yeah I know it's cliche to post about running another OS, but honestly, what's the motivation to run windows anymore?

      I recently swapped gentoo for ubuntu on my laptop, and out of the box ubuntu booted up to Gnome, had a bunch of useful software installed, was easy to add more OSS to it, it detected my wireless card, and even found my access point right away, sound works, etc. If I take an XP SP2 CD and put it in my laptop, it will fail to find my wirel
      • yeah I know it's cliche to post about running another OS, but honestly, what's the motivation to run windows anymore?

        If you can't figure it out after this being the topic of discussion every single day on Slashdot, at least accept people have different needs from each other and stop asking the same question like a broken record.
        • Sometimes it's worth repeating because it's a valid rhetorical question.

          You can edit documents, run spreadsheets (even multiply correctly!), design software/hardware, compose music, etc, just as easily in an OSS OS as Windows. And if people stopped worshipping Redmond they'd actually realize that *they* have the power to choose, not the producers.

          Why isn't photoshop ported to GNU/Linux? Because customers aren't demanding it enough. Watch people hold up updating CS, demand Linux ports, and you'll probably see it happen. But if you just blindly do what they tell you, you get less options. And in certain cases the alternatives are better. I'd rather use OO.o than MS Office. I'd rather use firefox than IE7. I'd rather use pidgin than the MSN client, I'd rather use lilypond than Finale, I'd rather use mplayer than WMP, I'd rather use a lot of things than their "traditional proprietary" counterparts.

          I'd suspect for 99% of computer users out there (home users included) they could get by just as well or better with a good Linux distro than Vista. Certainly my experience with Ubuntu has been such that if you can't figure out how to use/install it, you probably won't get much out of owning a computer anyways. It's just so damn simple to use, not to mention free, and gives access to an entire library of OSS software.

          Tom

      • honestly, what's the motivation to run windows anymore?
        • It came installed on your new PC and you're too lazy to install something else
        • Your boss makes you
        • You like to play games

        Seriously, that's the complete list these days as far as I can tell. Not good news for Microsoft.

      • You have to realize that in Microsoft's landscape, Windows Users are not entitled to "choose" anything. Making the choice to use Linux is insanely difficult. You grow accustomed and comfortable after a while but its still really hard. There is no free market in computers. Proliferation of IIS and ActiveX will force people to IE.
        • I choose to use OSS for the myriad of benefits. It has the downside that I can't play many of the popular games. OH BIG WHOOP. I have consoles for games if I really want to play something.

          People aren't forced to do anything they don't want to. You don't have to take that job at $BIGCORP where they use all the wrong software/tools/etc. You don't have to buy a PC with Vista installed, you don't have to keep it installed if you did anyways. People run Windows because they're too lazy and ignorant to sort

      • yeah I know it's cliche to post about running another OS, but honestly, what's the motivation to run windows anymore?
        You know what else is a cliche? Pointing out that windows is the "safe" option in terms of hardware compatibility and support, as well as the only decent gaming platform for PC. It also has some good software that only comes on windows, and doesn't yet have any decent linux-based competition.
      • Why would you switch away from Gentoo? I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely curious. As a long term Debian user {formerly a Mandrake user}, I tried a brief fling with Gentoo a year or so back. It did everything Debian did, but it didn't really seem to do it any better than Debian. The biggest difference seemed to be that "apt-get install foo" was replaced by "emerge foo". I put up with it till the HDD in the box died the death, then went back to Debian for its replacement.

        Had I discovered Gentoo before
    • M$'s website point-blank refuses to work with any other browser.
    • Actually, its not that other browsers refuse to work with it, its that Microsoft uses ActiveX to run Windows Update, and nobody wants to use that in alternative browsers (ActiveX is one of the problems with MSIE security model).

      Btw, if you REALLY REALLY want to use an alternative browser to run Windows update, you can always use IETAB and run an instance of MSIE inside a tab in Firefox.
      • But then thats not really using an alternative browser.. its just hosting the IE browser in a different window. You may as well just use IE.

    • Re:ALTERNATE (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Foerstner (931398) on Friday October 05 2007, @07:10AM (#20865895)
      Um...no, that's "alternative." If you're going to be a word-usage Nazi, get it right first.

      Unless you're trying to suggest that they're switching back and forth repeatedly.
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