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The Internet Communications IT

Verizon Offers 20/20 Symmetrical FiOS Service 375

BlueMerle writes with news that Verizon is offering 20 Mbps symmetrical service for current FiOS customers in NY, CT, and NJ. It will cost $65 a month. Cable companies aren't in a position to match this capability.
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Verizon Offers 20/20 Symmetrical FiOS Service

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  • by ctrl ( 49474 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @05:27AM (#21097187)
    With the advent of DOCSIS 3.0, cable companies can "bundle up" upstream channels for up to 120 Mbits. Standard DOCSIS 3.0 cable modems will have 4 downstreams and 4 upstream channels, for a total (theoretical) throughput of 200 Mbit/s DS and 120 Mbit/s US.

    While the throughput is shared, there's something to be said about PowerBoost as well - they may be able to offer a 20/20 service with boost capability up to 40/40 or 80/40... or if you pay to download movie they may allow you to download that movie @ the full 200 Mbit/s.

    Cable companies will be able to compete - but only if they don't keep shooting themselves in the foot with things like BitTorrent filtering.
  • by tigerd ( 890439 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @05:52AM (#21097305) Homepage
    damn you guys in the states have it hard. My connection was just upgraded from 8/1 to 20/2 for free. 50 dollars per month. Welcome to Denmark :) And its even cheaper in Sweden.
  • by empaler ( 130732 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @06:46AM (#21097547) Journal
    Sounds like Cybercity just upgraded in your area (they are, AFAIK, the only ones doing the free upgrades, yes?)

    My connection costs... just shy of 500 dkk/month for 20/20. That's around 100$. Granted, I opted for 10/10 at half that price, because I honestly don't need 20/20 - and that's even though my boss is paying my ISP fees (and he would gladly up it if I asked him)

    (Før du spørger: Det er gennem min boligforening :) - men ikke lige så rart som min kammerats 60/20 til 150kr/md)
  • Benchmark data (Score:5, Informative)

    by pmontra ( 738736 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @07:05AM (#21097639) Homepage
    I'd like to share my experience with a similar service I've been using since year 2000 in Italy. I have a symmetrical 10 Mbits fiber optic connection from Fastweb http://www.fastweb.it/ [fastweb.it]. Their offers that can compare to the Verizon one range in the 50-60 Euros per month, so Verizon is definitely cheaper.
    The question somebody asked, directly or unspoken, in this forum is: do you really get all that speed? In my case the answer is yes. I FTP at 1000 kB/s (kilobytes) with the other guys in the Fastweb network and it's common to download files at more than 400 kB/s from US servers. CDNs usually bring that figure in the 700-900 kB/s range. That bandwidth isn't guaranteed by the contract but it never shrunk noticeably in these eight years, despite the fact that the customer base grew 100 times or more. On the other side, none of the 10 or 20 Mb/s ADSL connections I saw here in Italy (with other ISPs) were faster than one tenth of their nominal bandwidth, when downloading files from the same services I use.
    So, if you trust your provider to invest in its interconnection with the Internet at large, those 65$ can be worth the expense. If you think that it will somewhat cap your bandwidth, stay with what you have. In my case I got a six-months-for-free offer and I jumped in at the very beginning of the offering :-) but otherwise I'd have waited some month and read what the other customers said.
    Finally, do you really need all that speed? My answer is yes: you find a way to put it at use once you got it and you don't want to go back.
  • by Port1080 ( 515567 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @07:34AM (#21097757) Homepage
    I had FiOS for a few months (granted, it was their 5mb/2mb package) and ran BT more or less 24/7 and never ran into any problems. Verizon has a whole host of other issues (their billing department, especially, is a joke), but as far as using your bandwidth goes they really don't seem to care if you max it out. They also don't make any serious attempt to block P2P, although they do block some of the common web services ports (i.e. you can't run an http server on port 80, ftp server on 21, etc).
  • by fabu10u$ ( 839423 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @07:45AM (#21097825)

    I had read that the real bottleneck in the DOCSIS system was the total bandwidth allocated to upstream traffic on each coax system. Apparently it has to be a separate band to keep from interfering with downstream television and data.

    If true, the cable operators will have to keep deploying more fiber nodes to break the coax network into smaller and smaller pieces to be able to compete. Eventually they might have to run fiber to each house...?

  • by twfry ( 266215 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @07:47AM (#21097831)
    I very recently moved to Seoul and finally setup the internet yesterday. First thing I did was to test the speeds and here are the results.

    Speed test in Korea: 94.7Mb down - 11.4Mb up
    Speed test to Japan: 11.4Mb down - 7.8Mb up
    Speed test to USA: 2.7Mb down - 0.9Mb up

    My DSL in the US is working at ~630Kb up (have ATT which promises between 512Kb - 764Kb up). So even if I upgraded the service, my slingbox would barely perform better.....
  • by MLease ( 652529 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @07:49AM (#21097839)
    There's a subtle implication there that uploading torrents is automatically an illegitimate purpose. However, many Linux distributions are available that way, as one example of a legitimate purpose for uploading a torrent. Torrent != piracy.

    -Mike

  • no servers, period (Score:3, Informative)

    by m2943 ( 1140797 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @07:59AM (#21097899)
    http://www.verizon.net/policies/popups/tos_popup.asp [verizon.net]

    3.7.5 You may not use the Broadband Service to host any type of server whether personal or commercial in nature.

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @08:26AM (#21098103)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by FlappingJerky ( 1178823 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @08:33AM (#21098187)
    Heck, I bet the 20/20 for $65 price won't last long. It seems like every time they push a new product out, the price eventually rises. I've been waiting for fios in my area for ages. I don't think they'll ever push it down where I live.

    A good site to check if fios is available in your area is http://www.fiberexperts.com/ [fiberexperts.com]. However, I don't know if it's up to date.

  • by Laebshade ( 643478 ) <laebshade@gmail.com> on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @08:33AM (#21098189)
    To use DOCSIS 3.0, not only would you need new modems that are compatible with this standard, but the network itself also needs to be upgraded. Lines need to have higher bandwidth and the CTMS has to be upgraded/replaced with DOCSIS 3.0-compatible hardware. Some MSOs still use DOCSIS 1.1, which is scary considering how long DOCSIS 2.0 has been out.

    DOCSIS 3.0 has only been out for less than a year. Cable modem networks have significantly less upstream bandwidth than downstream bandwidth -- analog tv is to blame for this.

    I'd rather have FiOS anyways; I drool over a symmetrical connection.

    And yes, IACMT (cable modem technician) (though not a field tech).
  • by internic ( 453511 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @09:02AM (#21098485)

    I would jump on this in a second (FIOS is available in my area) if only it were a true internet connection offered by a real ISP. But (at least if this is a residential plan) if you look at the TOS you will see that it contains weasel words that you can get kicked for, you know, actually using the bandwidth you're ostensibly buying or for running any type of "server", which is really not clearly defined and certainly could include P2P apps (like maybe Skype). So, when you think about it, what you're getting is not really a true internet connection but some limited internet service package that only allows you to do a certain (ill-defined) subset of what can be done with an internet connection.

    Finally, in my experience with Verizon (as a phone company) they treat their customers like dirt and their techs are incompetent. At one point they even screwed up our phones then came back to fix that and screwed it up worse. Eventually we had to draw them a damned diagram of how to do it correctly. I also talked to one of the FIOS guys at a kiosk they had in the mall. He couldn't give a straight answer about whether they do traffic shaping, have data transfer caps, or block certain protocols. As a test, I asked him about running a server on a residential connection, and he lied to me and told me it's permitted, which is directly contradicted by the TOS.

    I'd love to get a cable or fiber connection that's much faster than my current DSL, if only there were a provider I could tolerate giving my money to.

  • by Rarb ( 1033684 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @09:10AM (#21098583)
    I've had Verizon's 5/2 service since December 2005. Prior to that I had Verizon/GTE DSL, since 2000. In both cases the service was highly available and met the specifications. With DSL we had, at most, 2 or 3 short (less than an hour) outages in over 5 years. With FiOS we've had no outages whatsoever in nearly 2 years (it's also used to carry our phone service). I regularly use BitTorrent (Azureus client) and both download and upload rates meet the 5/2 specification, though I ususally cap the upload rate at 200KBps (so, roughly 1.6Mbps) to allow for other ACK traffic: I can browse and watch streaming videos with no noticable degradation while Azureus is doing 600KBps/200KBps (4.8Mbps/1.6Mbps).
    For the DSL service from 2000 to 2005 and the FiOS since 2005 I've paid between $30 and $35 per month. I live near Dallas, Texas, USA. Because I'm able to download, through BitTorrent, so much good material over the internet (mainly British television shows) I haven't needed any kind of cable TV service.
    I'm happy!
  • Re:Heh (Score:3, Informative)

    by b1t r0t ( 216468 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @09:24AM (#21098735)
    Important nitpick: You don't have FIOS [tm], you have Fiber. FIOS is a trademark that specifically refers to Verizon's fiber offering.
  • by smashr ( 307484 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @09:26AM (#21098755)
    If you call verizon you can have them switch your net connection from cable over to Cat5 coming off of the fiber box. You can then use your own router. If you google around you can find more information.

    (If you also have FIOS tv then you need to keep the actiontech around, but it can be behind your other router)
  • by WidescreenFreak ( 830043 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @09:27AM (#21098759) Homepage Journal
    You're joking, right? You know very well that at that price it's going to be a consumer-grade. I can't believe that you actually bothered to ask that question.

    I don't know about others but in my experience the number of problems with my consumer-grade FiOS is minimal. I've had FiOS 15/2 for about a year now, and I've only experienced one drop where I lost both Internet and voice. I called to report the issue via my cell phone and was told, after a few minutes of investigating, that there was indeed a local outage and that they're working on it. About four hours later I was back up. This was on a weekend afternoon, so it's not like it was a matter of life or death, like some people make it out to be.

    My only gripe when that happens is that Verizon does not give you any dial-up time with consumer FiOS. You might think, "Well, duh, how can you call when your phone line is down, too?" but I have a data cable for my cell phone, which can act as a modem. When I had their DSL, I also had 50 hours of dial-up per month. So, if DSL went down I could still use my Verizon account to access the Internet through dial-up. With FiOS Verizon doesn't allow that because FiOS and DSL/dial-up are considered to be different business entities from what I understand.

    But overall I'm very satisfied with my FiOS connection and my uptime has been well over 99% during "normal" hours with me using it heavily at night and my wife using it throughout the day.
  • by EVil Lawyer ( 947367 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @10:47AM (#21099799)
  • by Red Flayer ( 890720 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @11:01AM (#21100037) Journal

    I could definitely use a little web server for my work - sending files to clients, etc. 20Mbit would do the job nicely.
    Verizon's TOS forbid setting up a webserver on a regular account. You'd have to pay much more money if you want port 80 open.
  • by Andy Dodd ( 701 ) <atd7NO@SPAMcornell.edu> on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @11:16AM (#21100239) Homepage
    That 150 Kb stealth cap (which similar to Comcast, I don't think OptOffline ever admitted to) is why I call them OptOffline.

    I got stealthcapped too for accidentally running BT uncapped for only a day or so.

    RoadRunner only has a 512k per-user upstream cap and 5M downstream cap, but doesn't seem to care if you saturate it.
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday October 24, 2007 @02:25PM (#21103053)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

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