Become a fan of Slashdot on Facebook

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×

Are Spammers Giving Up? 327

sfjoe writes "Are spammers giving up the game? Google seems to think so. In an article at Wired, Google, '... says that spam attempts, as a percentage of e-mail that's transmitted through its Gmail system, have waned over the last year'. They think their own filters are so good that spammers aren't even trying anymore. 'Other experts disagree with Google, pointing out that overall spam attempts continue to rise. By most estimates, tens of billions of spam messages are sent daily. Yet for most users, the amount of spam arriving in their inboxes has remained relatively flat, thanks to improved filtering.'"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Are Spammers Giving Up?

Comments Filter:
  • My Experience (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bizitch ( 546406 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @05:29PM (#21524113) Homepage
    Gmail completely rocks!

    Spam detection has got to be something like 99.999% accurate

    I sometimes get the occasional Nigerian scam letters - but thats it
  • I've noticed... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by coldmist ( 154493 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @05:30PM (#21524121) Homepage
    that over the past few months, I've been getting a lot more spam mail through my ISP's filter, *and* through Thunderbird's filter. Those random words sprinkled throughout the message is even getting it past the Bayesian filtering now.

    It seems that have it figured out pretty good to me.
  • Yahoo (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tmarthal ( 998456 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @05:33PM (#21524167) Homepage
    I have no other experience with hotmail, but my free webmail experience has consisted of Yahoo! and Gmail.

    Let me tell you, Yahoo!'s spam rate has not improved. I am not sure if their filter isn't as good, or they are just taking money from the wrong people, but I get at least one spam message make it into my inbox per day, maybe 2-3. Oftentimes, the spamming links back to a geocities.com page. Coincidence? I don't know.

    With Gmail, I get one spam message per month (maybe) make it into my inbox. They are so rare, its comforting. And since they are so few and far between, I actually use the 'Report Spam' option, because it looks like get this that their filters are actually updated with my input, and I don't see spam of that same type ever again.

    This is different from Yahoo, I report spam all the time and yet the same exact message types make it past the filters into my inbox. I even report phishing there, but that doesnt' seem to help.

    Can anyone with internal Yahoo webmail operation shed some light into what they actually do with user input? It would be nice to know that someone, somewhere (or at least a script) is using my button clicking for input.
  • by smist08 ( 1059006 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @05:34PM (#21524179)
    I seem to get as much regular spam as before. However I now get MySpace and Facebook spam as well. People trolling to be my friend in all sorts of special professional ways.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 29, 2007 @05:40PM (#21524269)
    Filtering may work decently, but it is resource intensive and depending on your email load, you may need a scanning box as big as your regular email server.

    Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greylisting [wikipedia.org]
    or
    http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/whitepaper.html [puremagic.com]

    Our own office only has about 150 mailboxes but we don't do any filtering at all because of our greylisting as implemented by http://www.openbsd.org/spamd [openbsd.org]

    Even better we can greylist at the perimeter instead of letting all of that pointless traffic onto our own network.

    And if you're feeling particularily vindictive start posting trapped email address on your own publicly available webpages. Make them invisible or hidden under other content but still harvestable by bots. And soon enough a significant percentage of email addresses out there will point to tarpits. Making botnet spamming a much slower proposition, and should therefore decrease the total ammount of spam.
  • Re:For Serious? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @05:44PM (#21524333)
    Wrong, because the issue is not whether all spammers have quit (they haven't), but whether there is a decrease.
  • by Crypto Gnome ( 651401 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @06:08PM (#21524703) Homepage Journal

    In an article at Wired, Google, '... says that spam attempts, as a percentage of e-mail that's transmitted through its Gmail system, have waned over the last year'.
    and

    Other experts disagree with Google, pointing out that overall spam attempts continue to rise.


    Well yes, they can easily both be true.

    If, for example, spammers are learning that sending spam to @gmail addresses is a pointless exercise in futility. So they further concentrate their efforts on non-gmail addresses.

    Google sees a significant drop of spam arriving at gmail (though via accounts which POP3 mail from external addresses, there'll always be some spam).

    Everyone else (not Google) sees their inbound spam increasing/strong.
  • Bandwidth (Score:5, Interesting)

    by The_Craigster ( 906389 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @06:14PM (#21524789)
    How much extra bandwidth would the internet have, if there was no spam bouncing around. I say we shut off port 25 on every router for just 6 hours and watch the bit torrents just scream :). Have a moment of email silence.
  • Re:For Serious? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Mike Buddha ( 10734 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @06:18PM (#21524855)
    I moved my email domain to Google Mail for Domains a few years back. I've notice a great reduction in the amount of Spam I get now, anecdotally. When I first moved my domain over there, I was averaging 900-1000 spam in the folder on a regular basis. I'm now getting roughly half that. It's amusing because now the only spam that gets through to my inbox is so convoluted that I can't tell what it is they're trying to sell.
  • Re:For Serious? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TubeSteak ( 669689 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @06:20PM (#21524873) Journal
    A closer reading of TFA suggests another interpretation.

    spam attempts, as a percentage of e-mail that's transmitted through its Gmail system, have waned over the last year.
    If the volume of legitimate mail increases more than spam mail, you'll see a "decrease" in spam as a percentage.

    If the volume of spam grew at X.2% compared to last year's growth of X.9%, that doesn't mean the volume of spam is going down. Hell, one way or another, the volume of spam as a percentage has to go down. It's hard to keep up a healthy growth rate once you've 10 billion a year.

    Lies, damn lies and statistics.
  • Re:My Experience (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Sigismundo ( 192183 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @06:27PM (#21524989)
    That's interesting. I've noticed that the Spam tab in Gmail includes links to Spam recipes running along the top. Maybe that's Google's way of acknowledging how cool Hormel has been about their trademark. (Gmail does seem to use "Spam" with just the first letter capitalized for both the Hormel product and junk email, though.) I've always wondered whether Google has some explicit arrangement with Hormel, or if they are just putting in the SPAM recipes to be cute.
  • by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @06:27PM (#21524995) Journal
    Actually, the grandparent almost has a point. People are not so much switching from Windows as switching from Outlook Express and ISP-provided email to webmail. Most webmail providers have fairly aggressive virus scanning making email much less of a vector for generating new spam zombies.
  • Re:My Experience (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nuzak ( 959558 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @06:33PM (#21525071) Journal
    I suspect they're doing it to be cute, and it's probably just recipes contributed by google employees. Here's the link to Hormel's take on it: http://www.spam.com/legal/spam/ [spam.com]

  • by CodeBuster ( 516420 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @06:34PM (#21525079)
    But in the end, its just a matter of time until the spammers defeat both of them, and we're on to filter ABC version 2.

    Among the many useful techniques which have been brought to bear against spam from the field of Artificial Intelligence (AI) is the notion of spam as an adversarial game between an intelligent agent (i.e. the filter) and the spammer(s). When this is combined with other AI techniques, such as Bayesian [slashdot.org] or Neural [wikipedia.org] network machine learning type algorithms, the filters become very powerful indeed and not only that but they become automatically adaptable, constantly looking to improve their "score" in the game (i.e. percentage of spams that make it past the filter vs number of false positives) against the spammers. It is important to understand that the creators of this filter do not program the rules but rather the system is designed to perform critical analysis and determine its own rules...this is the power of Artificial Intelligence at work.

    Consider that in the past, when serious efforts have been made to bring such intelligent agents up to a high level of play in adversarial games, the programs have advanced to the point where even the very best human players are barely able to win and only with great effort (as in Chess) or, even worse, they cannot win in the face of such tremendously strong play from the AI which never gets tired, never gets psyched out, never panics, but rather constantly and inexorably grinds on to victory with a very high probability.

    The spammers are at a distinct disadvantage against such systems for two primary reasons: (1) It is difficult to tell, from the endpoint of the spammer, precisely which message made it through the filter and how and (2) even if they do figure out which messages made it through the filter the filter is learning and training, like the human immune system, for the next time it sees a similar message which will then not make it through. Or in other words the AI filter has full visibility of the game board, but the spammer can only see his pieces and few or none of the pieces of his opponent.

    If the game can be made difficult and frustrating enough for the spammer(s) by consistently strong play on the part of the AI filters, then the cost benefit ratio can be reduced asymptotically to zero against the spammer to the point were even the most dogged and determined spammer is tempted to throw in the towel. The cost of sending spam is close to zero but it is not absolutely zero, so the AI should begin discouraging spammers at the point where the AI filter pushes the returns close enough to zero to make spamming unattractive compared to alternative (and potentially more lucrative) activities for the spammer.
  • Re:I've noticed... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by fredklein ( 532096 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @07:39PM (#21525937)
    My question is: Why are spammers doing things like that? I mean, here you have a person who obviously does not want spam, and has specifically set up a filter that will not just filter out spam, but will actually LEARN about new types of spam in order to filter then out, too.

    Does this sound like a person who will buy your crap? Why try so hard to get around filters in order to reach people who are obviously not going to buy anything from you?
  • I have NOT seen less (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Pontiac ( 135778 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @08:31PM (#21526565) Homepage
    I manage the spam firewalls where I work and track spam statistics every week,

    2 months ago we received 20 million messages pr week and passed about 800,000 as legitimate mail

    Last week we saw 41 million and the same 800,000 passed as legitimate messages.. that's 98% spam!!!

    to break it down more..
    41 million recieved
    32 million rejections on RBL lists
    9 million passed onto the spam filters.. 10% of that gets through.
    This is for 1 week.

    We keep seeing spam double every 2 months.. It's gota stop growing at some point right??
  • Re:For Serious? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rm999 ( 775449 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @08:47PM (#21526729)
    The issue then is whether the growth of e-mails is due to an increase in the number of users, or the number of e-mails per user. I would be inclined to guess that the first is much stronger of an effect than the latter (considering g-mail's explosive growth and no recent force that is encouraging people to write more e-mails). In that case, we would expect the number of spams per message to stay roughly constant, because the spammers would have new people to send each e-mail to.

    Yes, their conclusion depends on some assumptions, but I can believe that those assumptions are at least partly true.
  • Re:For Serious? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Paradise Pete ( 33184 ) on Thursday November 29, 2007 @09:21PM (#21527027) Journal
    I just love the freedom to post my email: bill@billrocks.org

    Billrocks? What kind of business plan is that? Do they ever pay?

  • by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Thursday November 29, 2007 @09:22PM (#21527035) Journal

    Allow me to correct your correction.

    "As long as they are perceived to sell something through the spam..."

    Should be:

    "As long as some sucker thinks he might be able to sell something through spam..."

    It isn't the general perception of the effectiveness of spam that matters, it's the perception of idiots with dreams of getting rich quick that matter and the supply of said idiots is endless.

If God had not given us sticky tape, it would have been necessary to invent it.

Working...