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Comcast Continues to Block Peer to Peer Traffic 283

narramissic writes "A report released Thursday by the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) finds that Comcast continues to use hacker-like techniques to slow down customers' connections to some P-to-P (peer-to-peer) applications. The EFF said that Comcast appears to be injecting RST, or reset, packets into customers' connections, causing connections to close. 'The investigators say that their tests confirmed an earlier one conducted by the Associated Press that showed that Comcast is interfering with BitTorrent traffic. BitTorrent is a protocol used to efficiently distribute the online transmission of large files, and some entertainment companies have partnered with its creators to distribute its content online. Comcast has said that it doesn't block BitTorrent, or any kind of content.'" If you're the type that always looks for a silver lining, Comcast's skulduggery may be pushing Congress to reconsider Net Neutrality.
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Comcast Continues to Block Peer to Peer Traffic

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  • Good for them (Score:0, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 30, 2007 @09:41PM (#21540393)
    Good for Comcast. I hope more places continue to block BitTorrent. There's no legitimate use for it anyway. It should be banned.

    Any legitimate distributor of content can pay to distribute it with trying to hide the real cost from their consumer. Any other use of BitTorrent is by definition illegitimate.

    And in any case, users of residential internet connections shouldn't be surprised they don't get all the business features. Want a full internet connection? Pay for it.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday November 30, 2007 @09:55PM (#21540473)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Futurepower(R) ( 558542 ) on Friday November 30, 2007 @09:59PM (#21540495) Homepage
    Comcast continues to deny [comcast.net] they are blocking or discriminating with traffic. (See "Hot Topics" in the middle of the page.)

    See this nonsense [comcast.net] linked from that page:

    Question: "Do you discriminate against particular types of online content?"

    Answer: "No. There is no discrimination based on the type of content. Our customers enjoy unfettered access to all the content, services, and applications that the Internet has to offer. We respect our customers' privacy and we don't monitor specific customer activities on the Internet or track individual online behavior such as which Web sites they visit. Therefore, we do not know whether any individual user is visiting BitTorrent or any other site."

    I guess that is called "plausible deniability". Comcast management apparently assigned that question to someone who is so ignorant that he thinks BitTorrent is only a web site, and clearly doesn't understand the issues. I suppose that later Comcast management can blame the denial on a confused lower level employee.

    I was talking to a Comcast repair technician yesterday who came to replace a poor quality, non-functional cable modem. He was very uncaring. I suppose that is the Comcast culture. It must be miserable to work there.

    You can't see it with Slashdot's HTML rendering, but whoever typed that reply for Comcast is back in the days of the typewriter. He or she used two spaces after every period. That made sense when all type was monospaced. I wonder if I visited Comcast headquarters, would I see horses tied outside?
  • by pfbram ( 1070364 ) on Friday November 30, 2007 @10:16PM (#21540619)
    I'm a fan of YouTube (who isn't), but hadn't logged into my account for awhile and forgot the password when I tried commenting on a video. I had a reminder sent to my comcast e-mail account a day or two ago -- and it's been about 36 hours, and it never arrived! Assuming something was hosed with my YouTube account, I decided to create a new account, still no activation e-mail sent.

    I then changed my YouTube preferences to my GMail account, and the confirmation e-mail arrived within like 2 minutes. No surprise, since Google owns both GMail and YouTube. But my curiosity was now aroused, so I changed the e-mail preferences on YouTube to my work account (I'm an open source programmer at a Big-10 university). Again, the YouTube confirmation came within like 2 minutes or so.

    I logged into comcast.net under my main subscriber e-mail account today -- and deactivated ALL spam/filtering on that account. I then went back to YouTube and switched preferences back to my comcast account. It's been about 4 hours and, of course, there's been no e-mail from YouTube.

    Anyone else notice this oddness between YouTube / Comcast? It irked me enough to create a little web site of it this afternoon, and post it on my blog as well (http://paulbramscher.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]).
  • by AySz88 ( 1151141 ) on Friday November 30, 2007 @10:25PM (#21540683)

    It is important to note, however, that we never prevent P2P activity, or block access to any P2P applications, but rather manage the network in such a way that this activity does not degrade the broadband experience for other users.
    Their technical excuse (see this George Ou blog post [zdnet.com] .) is that this is true - with current modems, cable cannot handle the number of simultaneous transmits required by, for example, torrent uploads. Like Ethernet on a shared wire, they say, cable modems send out requests to transmit on a bus, which can collide repeatedly and require lots of retransmission attempts, which apparently causes runaway queuing problems.

    Personally, I don't really care whether the excuse true or not - I don't have empathy for "but my network can't handle it!". If someone buys Internet access and it is being used in good faith in accordance with spec, but the network breaks, the company should have to fix their network; the customer shouldn't need to adjust their usage. To me, it just so happens that the affected application is P2P.

    I'm a little fuzzy on this, but I think they'd have to upgrade modems soon anyway to continue competing with FiOS? (Something about DOCSIS 3?) Also, I am still curious - can someone with knowledge of current cable protocols verify that the excuse is plausible?
  • Re:Should be shot (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Vellmont ( 569020 ) on Friday November 30, 2007 @10:29PM (#21540713) Homepage

    This will lead to non-compliant network stacks which attempt to detect "bogus" RSTs and ignore them. And that cannot be allowed to happen at any cost.

    Why? Just ignore all RST packets for bittotent ports, and timeout any connections. Do it at the NAT level, and you don't have to modify the OS. It leads to some extra open connections, but big deal. Comcast can just plain old block the connections anyway, the only reason they're not is because it takes more router resources than they have.
  • by Entropius ( 188861 ) on Friday November 30, 2007 @10:29PM (#21540715)
    Well, one way to do it:

    1. No ISP shall give preferential handling to, modify, fail to deliver, or alter the content of traffic based on either its source, the protocol over which it is carried, or its content.

    Exception: If a quality-of-service mechanism becomes widely used over the Internet, such as setting a time-critical flag on certain traffic (online gaming, VoIP, etc.), ISP's may give preferential handling to traffic so flagged, as long as:

    a) the mechanism for requesting a higher QoS for certain traffic is widely known and available, such that anyone can use it;

    b) the preferential treatment given to time-critical content is given equally to all traffic claiming to need a higher QoS without regard for its source, the protocol over which it is carried, or its content;

    Exception: Traffic which is clearly and unambiguously malicious may be dropped. "Malicious", in this case, means either:

    a) It is intended to interfere with the correct operation and control of the recipient's equipment, if the recipient of the traffic is a customer of the ISP. This includes, but is not limited to, denial-of-service traffic and exploit attempts. However, an ISP must honor a request in writing by a customer to cease filtering inbound malicious traffic to them.

    b) It is generated by a program running without the consent of, and against the wishes of, the owner of the sending computer, if the sender is a customer of the ISP.

    c) Such traffic consists of unsolicited commercial email, and the customer has requested that the ISP filter inbound email to remove spam.
  • by vixen337 ( 986423 ) on Friday November 30, 2007 @10:32PM (#21540731)
    The funny thing is, I got this exact same response in reply to a question about them blocking an UPLOAD from me. Then I replied to say that wasn't really my question, could I get their form letter for uploads and I got a form letter back that said I was asking about a feature that wasn't supported. Huh?

    It's obvious their tech support is not read. I called and I also got a load of bull about downloads that sounded scripted. I understand about downloads, but how is that stopping my uploads?

    I'm switching providers to someone who actually listens to a question before they give you an answer.
  • by Yossarian45793 ( 617611 ) on Friday November 30, 2007 @10:38PM (#21540781)
    Can't you just write a iptables rule to drop RST packets destined for your bittorrent port? You could even get clever about it and drop RST packets that come out of the blue, but allow repeated RST packets to pass, so that connections that have really be reset on the far end can be closed.
  • by sumdumass ( 711423 ) on Friday November 30, 2007 @11:41PM (#21541077) Journal
    While it is popular to claim something is illegal when the statement should be more like It should be illegal, I would be more along the belief that something like fraud or something along those lines.

    I looked but couldn't find the a law on a federal level but saw a few state laws in passing that include using the Internet to commit fraud and causing the interruption of Internet services in that act. Now suppose that their interference can be considered defrauding you of services they sold you and suppose that interfering with the data streams was the method for doing this, even though it is on their network, I imagine something could be twisted enough to apply.

    I look at it this way, Suppose you purchased a printer that printed 20 pages per minute. Says so right on the box and on the printer itself. Now, when you get home, you find that you have to buy the turbo module at a cost more then the printer in order to get that advertised performance. And when you complain, they tell you that it is done this way to protect their supply network. What sort of laws apply? Suppose that you have to feed the paper manually one sheet at a time and push a button after it is started without the turbo module which could be similar to having to monitor and restart your torrent or whatever.

    Now, what sort of laws would apply, would they be criminal or civil in nature, and seeing how comcast is a regulated entity, is there a state oversight organization that fields complaints already. In ohio, the public utilities commission has some oversight of time warner I think. I have used them in the past to help get complaints again Cell phone providers taken care of. I think it probably is illegal in some way under some laws. I just don't know the specific ones or if I am correct in that assumption. But the oversight necessary might already be there.

    Comcast sells the Internet, not some Internet like service. Their willful failure to deliver reliably might not sit well with local regulators either. At minimum, they should be forced to be honest and up front about their tampering with P2P applications before you purchase their service. and where there are no other options because of Comcasts government granted monopoly, there should be a way around it.
  • by Lunarsight ( 1053230 ) on Friday November 30, 2007 @11:53PM (#21541125) Homepage
    I think capitalism will be Comcast's undoing, assuming that consumers start to get annoyed with the diminished results, and begin to express their discontent.

    Other DSL providers will naturally begin try and use the fact they don't interfere with the internet as a selling point. Assuming this happens, the only places that may be affected are any in which Comcast has a monopoly by being the only source for DSL.

    My only fear is other DSL providers will see that Comcast is getting away with tactics like this, and try to pull the same stunt. For that reason, I honestly hope Comcast gets sued bigtime over this. Comcast needs to be made an example out of.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 01, 2007 @01:02AM (#21541511)
    They don't interfere with your downloading, they interfere with your uploading. You can download to your heart's content at full speed - I've seen my 7Mbit Comcast cable connection spike as high as 20Mbit for more than 30 seconds, while downloading particular things with 500+ seeders online. This is difficult with Windows due to the built-in connection limit, but it's very easy on Linux or Mac. I can download folders larger than 6GB in less than three hours, with an avg. speed roughly being around 700 - 750KB/s.

    It's when you go to make an upload connection to another peer. BitTorrent wouldn't work at all (uploading or downloading) if Comcast just shot your upload connections down from the start; instead, they kill it after 30 seconds. I've timed it hundreds of times, from the time I announced to the tracker - it's always almost exactly 30 seconds. Unless you hammer the tracker with manual announcements or have a client that's smart enough to reconnect the peer "just to see" if it "really wanted to reset", you can't upload more than for 30 seconds at a time without either hammering the tracker, or taking excessive measures (it's been discovered that reconnecting the client as if it were just announced, upon being dropped, while causing somewhat odd client behavior, will work around the problem).

    This is a serious issue if you're a member of invite-only torrent sites where you don't get to download unless you've uploaded enough; it's also a serious issue if a lot of Comcast customers happen to use your BitTorrent-distributed product.

    The "quality assurance" cover is completely bogus - that's not what's going on. First of all, they're not hampering my upload speeds, they're dropping the connection completely after a set amount of time. How, exactly, does my uploading stuff on BitTorrent affect other customers' experience? Increase the bandwidth bill maybe, but that's not what's going on... they could easily throttle the speed down, but that's not what they're doing.

    I used to work for an ISP. Uploading doesn't hamper other customers' experience - downloading does. I think it's more plausible that they're being paid to screw up private BitTorrent trackers.
  • by Kamots ( 321174 ) on Saturday December 01, 2007 @01:04AM (#21541523)
    I'm thinking that you're not understanding what Comcast is doing. (Given your choice of examples)

    Lets look at what happens with WoW updates.

    Lets say that you're one of the first one's trying to do a WoW update, so your updater (which uses bittorrent) contacts Blizzard's servers. Comcast then sends you a packet pretending to be from Blizzard saying that Blizzard doesn't want to talk to you.

    That's forgery.
  • by zygwin ( 1091281 ) on Saturday December 01, 2007 @02:46AM (#21541983)
    Sites which have such restrictions include ones which distribute unofficial (aka bootleg) musical audio and video recordings like the thetradersden or purelivegigs etc which is perfectly legal as long as it was not released officially(DVD or TV Rips) but recorded by fans.
  • Re:Good for them (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 01, 2007 @05:33AM (#21542487)
    And when I can't access the Internet because Joe loser "content wants to be free" is hogging all the available bandwidth, then what?

    BitTorrent and a DDOS are practically indistinguishable - which could easily be the real reason behind the behavior seen on Comcast. BitTorrent is probably just triggering automated anti-DDOS measures. If you've ever tried to use a network at the same time as someone else was using BitTorrent, you'd be glad Comcast was blocking them.

    I, for one, am glad Comcast is blocking BitTorrent. Some of the "free content" crowd might be annoyed, but the people using the Internet for legitimate purposes will at least be able to use it. It might not be "true" Internet access, but I'll take "working" over "impossible to use" any day, regardless of what some geeks who refuse to pay reasonable market value think.

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