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The Internet Technology

Wikipedia to be Licensed Under Creative Commons 188

sla291 writes "Jimmy Wales made an announcement yesterday night at a Wikipedia party in San Francisco : Creative Commons, Wikimedia and the FSF just agreed to make the current Wikipedia license compatible with Creative Commons (CC BY-SA). As Jimbo puts it, 'This is the party to celebrate the liberation of Wikipedia'."
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Wikipedia to be Licensed Under Creative Commons

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  • by MLCT ( 1148749 ) on Saturday December 01, 2007 @04:47PM (#21546585)
    Presuming that the GFDL doesn't allow commutation with the CC licence then this change (if true, since the only source in the submission is a blog) won't make any difference unless wikipedia is wiped and they start again. Everything up until today on wikipedia is licensed under the GFDL, so that content will always be under the GFDL, because that is the licence the contributors agreed to when they submitted content (apart from a few who have made statements releasing their work of more restrictions, such as PD), and that licence can't be revoked or replaced by a CC-BY-SA licence without their permission (all hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of them).
  • by KillerCow ( 213458 ) on Saturday December 01, 2007 @04:59PM (#21546691)
    ...considering that every contribution made to Wiki was made under the GFDL, not CC. Are they going to get permission from all of the past contributors to change the license, or are they going to throw it all away and start from scratch? They don't own the content (it was licensed to them under GFDL) so they just can't change the license.
  • by tepples ( 727027 ) <tepplesNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Saturday December 01, 2007 @05:25PM (#21546899) Homepage Journal

    Doesn't small snippets fall under fair use?
    Small snippets are not always the issue. One of the TeX manuals contains the entire source code to TeX. In fact, it is the source code: the WEB software [wikipedia.org] extracts the equivalent of HTML <code> elements, pastes them together, passes the result to the Pascal compiler, and passes the remainder of the document to TeX.
  • Re:Strange... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by moosesocks ( 264553 ) on Saturday December 01, 2007 @05:29PM (#21546925) Homepage
    RMS is an idealist, whilst the people behind the CC organization are pragmatists.

    I'll concede that both sorts of people are necessary, although I certainly know which one I'd put my money behind.
  • by Leebert ( 1694 ) on Saturday December 01, 2007 @05:40PM (#21547037)

    How do we know that, in say 40 years, the leadership of the FSF will be as principled and uncorruptible as the current leadership?


    Oh come now, it's not like that [wikipedia.org] has ever happened before.
  • by capnez ( 873351 ) on Saturday December 01, 2007 @06:11PM (#21547335) Homepage Journal

    Trust me when I say that the shit has just hit the proverbial fan right now
    I think you are exaggerating. Yes, the mailing list, discussion pages, forums, blogs and the like will probably all flow over. However, I think when people realize that this is not the end of the world (i.e., Wikipedia) within the next five minutes, they will calm down. A lot of water will flow down the rivers of the world until this change is actually implemented. Until then, a lot of voices and opinions will be heard by everyone involved. From the board resolution:

    It is hereby resolved that:
    * The Foundation requests that the GNU Free Documentation License be modified in the fashion proposed by the FSF to allow migration by mass collaborative projects to the Creative Commons CC-BY-SA license;
    * Upon the announcement of that relicensing, the Foundation will initiate a process of community discussion and voting before making a final decision on relicensing.
    So I don't think this will happen anytime too soon. I estimate that we will see the final implementation of that by late 2008 at the earliest. First the FSF will have to change to GFDL (with Wikimedia input, obviously), only then can Wikimedia and the community review the new GFDL, and only then it can actually be put in place.
  • by Jay L ( 74152 ) <jay+slash @ j ay.fm> on Saturday December 01, 2007 @06:13PM (#21547359) Homepage
    Trust me when I say that the shit has just hit the proverbial fan right now...I'm going to have to unsubscribe...my contributions may be removed from Wikipedia

    I don't know if you're a big muckety-muck in the Greater Wiki Community; maybe you are, in which case I risk making a huge ass of myself. (I tried Googling for you, but all I kept coming up with was your many UserPages.) And, of course, it's always sad when people feel slighted or disenfranchised. That said:

    I feel fairly certain that anyone who, by comparison to his own views, considers Richard Stallman and the FSF to be a bunch of money-grubbing, compromising, unprincipled corporate hacks is someone whose writing I'm not going to miss.

  • Re:They can't (Score:3, Insightful)

    by AxelBoldt ( 1490 ) on Saturday December 01, 2007 @06:42PM (#21547553) Homepage

    That's also why a helluvalot of people are going to see this as a bait & switch.

    I doubt that very much. CC-BY-SA and GFDL are identical in spirit and intent; GFDL just has lots of clauses that are designed for software documentation and very awkward for a wiki. I don't believe that any good-faith Wikipedia contributor who has read and understood both licenses will reject CC-BY-SA in favor of GFDL.

    However, I also don't doubt that many disgruntled former Wikipedia contributors will claim that they disagree with this license change, just to troll and cause trouble. Since they have no legal standing, they can be safely ignored.

  • Re:Strange... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nadaou ( 535365 ) on Saturday December 01, 2007 @08:43PM (#21548275) Homepage

    RMS is an idealist, whilst the people behind the CC organization are pragmatists.

    I'll concede that both sorts of people are necessary, although I certainly know which one I'd put my money behind.

    Me too. Years of observation has shown (time and again) that all those wacky things RMS warns about generally come true a year or two later. An idealist with a good sense of how human nature and "the market" works is a powerful powerful thing. Not all idealists are sitting in the meadow chasing dandelions.

    Alternatively you might pigeon-hole him as a very in-touch cynic. In that sense consider RMS's fanaticism of protecting Freedoms from the point of view of never underestimating the creativity and number of sleazy people out there ready to make to quick buck and rip you off if they can.
  • Re:Difference? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Teancum ( 67324 ) <robert_horning&netzero,net> on Saturday December 01, 2007 @09:07PM (#21548425) Homepage Journal

    GFDL requires that so-called "Invariant Sections" (talking about the author and their relationship to the subject matter) be carried forward into future versions unchanged. Wikipedia articles don't have Invariant Sections, but you could take a Wikipedia article, change it, and then add an invariant section; everybody who wanted to use your changes would then have to keep the invariant section intact.

    GFDL also requires that the title of the work be changed after every modification, and that sections titled "Acknowledgment" and "Dedication" be kept intact. Nobody really cares about these clauses, and Wikipedia has long ignored them.


    If you add an invariant section, the legal requirement for keeping those invariant sections is only to those whom you distribute that new version of the content after this modification. It doesn't apply to earlier versions...and Wikipedia would as a matter of custom delete any invariant sections and material that would have to be kept.

    But on the whole, you are largely correct that Wikipedia does ignore this section of the GFDL by simply prohibiting as a matter of policy the creation of any invariant sections. There may be some GFDL'd content that was added to Wikipedia which contained invariant sections... and that content would either have to be deleted, or be in technical violation of the terms of the GFDL. The problem here is that there is, comparatively speaking, so little actual content outside of Wikimedia projects written using the GFDL that this is usually not a problem for copyright violation situations.

    If you want to redistribute a (modified) version of a work, the GFDL also requires that you accompany it with a copy of the GFDL and list at least five of the principal authors of the work on its title page. That's also widely ignored, by Wikipedia and others.


    I've complained about how the terms of this requirement might actually be met using the current interface on Wikipedia and the MediaWiki software. All of the raw information necessary to meet this requirement is kept on the servers, but it is not very easy to access and a pain to try and obtain. There is also no simple mechanism to distinguish between a vandal whose edits have been completely removed, and a serious contributor who has added some very real meat to the articles. Most lists of authors on Wikipedia articles include not only the "principal authors" but also vandals, crackpots, sysops (who clean up the mess from vandals), and people stopping by to fix the spelling of just one or two words.

    The GFDL is also very weak in its formal definition over what might even constitute an author at all, and it is very possible that Willy on Wheels (look it up on Wikipedia if you don't know him) could get equal credit with RMS on the article regarding the Free Software Foundation. But that is a problem with the GFDL, not Wikipedia.

    This is, however, something I've paid careful attention to when I've distributed Wikimedia content outside of the Wikimedia projects themselves. And that is something I have done... not just talked about.
  • Re:Strange... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by moosesocks ( 264553 ) on Saturday December 01, 2007 @09:21PM (#21548511) Homepage
    Perhaps we misunderstood each other. I prefer CC to RMS.

    For one, RMS needs to hire a good PR frontman, or start practicing good hygiene and work on his interpersonal skills if he wants to be taken seriously, or to lead a socially-responsible revolution.... otherwise, you start to look like Michael Moore.

    I will easily concede that CC would almost certainly not have happened without RMS and the GPL (and I really *do* appreciate the original visionaries for that). However, CC is presented in a manner that's much more easily digested by artists and the public.

    CC does not mandate that works are necessarily free, although it *does* give the artists a great degree of flexibility over how they want their work to be displayed, presented, or shared. It's a very nice transition between draconian copyright measures, and total freedom of information.

    Hopefully we'll transition to a more free society, but this is a transition that will take a long time to occur, and I think that CC is perhaps our greatest hope for this actually happening without drastic measures.

    It's really easy for this to slip into a socialism vs. communism debate. Within any "revolution", there are concessions that have to be made, and it's always a tough call where to draw the line. Personally, I think that we'll continue to have a balance of GPL, LGPL, and BSD-style, CC, etc... licenses, as each suits a rather specific purpose.

    (The "future" clause absolutely seals the deal, making the GPL completely and totally unacceptable, and is completely contrary to the spirit of the FSF, not to mention being wide open to abuse)
  • Re:Strange... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by nadaou ( 535365 ) on Sunday December 02, 2007 @12:03AM (#21549341) Homepage
    Aside- That was perhaps the most reasonable reply I have ever gotten to a /. post, and it happened on a religious thread none the less.

    I think it silly to enter into a debate on which license is the best, I fully agree that authors having a full quiver of licenses to choose from is a good thing as different situations and personalties will warrant the need for a different license.

    (The "future" clause absolutely seals the deal, making the GPL completely and totally unacceptable, and is completely contrary to the spirit of the FSF, not to mention being wide open to abuse)

    I think you misread it. There is no binding "future" clause in the license.
    Term 9 of the GPLv2 states:

    "9. The Free Software Foundation may publish revised and/or new versions
    of the General Public License from time to time. Such new versions will
    be similar in spirit to the present version, but may differ in detail to
    address new problems or concerns.

    Each version is given a distinguishing version number. If the Program
    specifies a version number of this License which applies to it and "any
    later version", you have the option of following the terms and conditions
    either of that version or of any later version published by the Free
    Software Foundation. If the Program does not specify a version number of
    this License, you may choose any version ever published by the Free Software
    Foundation."


    It is explicitly up to the author to state the license (thus version) used in their statement of copyright. If the author states "GPL version 2" then it is v2 and only v2. If they say ">=v2" then you, as the user, have the option to use "any future version" of GPL from the FSF. The FSF states that the reason they ask for >= is to avoid zombie code in case there is some legal bug found in the GPLv2 one day rendering it invalid, and the author has since disappeared.

    If you have ceded your copyright onto the FSF (as they ask), well then it's their choice. But if you say "GPL version 2" and you retained the copyright, then it is that and that only.

I tell them to turn to the study of mathematics, for it is only there that they might escape the lusts of the flesh. -- Thomas Mann, "The Magic Mountain"

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