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Supercomputing Government Hardware Politics

Iran Builds Supercomputer From Banned AMD Parts 778

Stony Stevenson writes with the news that, despite a ban on US PC hardware, Iranian techs have built an enormously powerful supercomputer from 216 AMD processors. The Linux-cluster machine has a 'theoretical peak performance of 860 gig-flops'. "The disclosure, made in an undated posting on [the University of] Amirkabir's Web site, brought an immediate response Monday from AMD, which said it has never authorized shipments of products either directly or indirectly to Iran or any other embargoed country."
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Iran Builds Supercomputer From Banned AMD Parts

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  • by flabbergast ( 620919 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @01:19PM (#21658005)
    "The Iranian supercomputer falls far behind the world's fastest computers. In November, the BlueGene/L System, jointly developed by IBM and the U.S. Department of Energy was ranked No. 1 in the world with a benchmark performance of 478.2 teraflops. A teraflop equals a trillion calculations per second."

    Indeed, the article mentions at the end that it falls far behind the rest of the world. In fact, to make the Top 500 this year you had to have a supercomputer worthy of 5.9 Teraflops.
  • Re:Oh well. (Score:2, Informative)

    by griffman99h ( 671362 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @01:27PM (#21658141)
    "Which stops someone just driving over the border to the nearest country which doesn't have such sanctions and filling up their car with equipment... how exactly?" ...not much... hence the report that they have said supercomputer. someone made the trip. duh.
  • Re:Oh well. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Pictish Prince ( 988570 ) <wenzbauer@gmail.com> on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @01:27PM (#21658147) Journal

    .basically we don't like Iran, so we can't do business with them at all.
    Unless, of course, we're Halliburton [wikipedia.org]! (Read the 9th entry)
  • Re:Oh well. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Constantine XVI ( 880691 ) <trash,eighty+slashdot&gmail,com> on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @01:41PM (#21658385)
    And so does Christianity and Judaism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury#Usury_within_religious_texts [wikipedia.org]
  • Re:Oh noes! (Score:5, Informative)

    by UdoKeir ( 239957 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @01:45PM (#21658485)
    Actually the link is an Australian repost of an American media story. Here's the original (as linked in the Australian repost): http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=204800653&cid=RSSfeed_IWK_All [informationweek.com]
  • Re:'Banned'? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Khuffie ( 818093 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @02:13PM (#21659067) Homepage
    Just to point out your history of Iran, please don't act like the US was clean. The US ally you referred to that ruled Iran was installed by the US government after an operation by the CIA to overthrow a freely elected leader. To Iran, the US is seen as terrorists, mostly for meddling with the sovereignty (sp?) of other nations.
  • Re:Oh noes! (Score:5, Informative)

    by chill ( 34294 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @02:14PM (#21659087) Journal
    You are wrong.

    Google the news on Iran and that latest CIA report that says Iran stopped pursuing nuclear weapons in 2003. Guess what you'll find -- the EU, France, Germany and others basically saying the U.S. intelligence is flawed and Iran is a much greater nuclear threat than that report states.

    France and Germany are pushing for harsher sanctions than the U.N. ones. They want separate EU sanctions on Iran, and still call their nuclear program "a threat".

    The Middle East nations all are fearful of Iran as is, and terrified of them having nuclear weapons. Arabs != Persians.
  • by tomatensaft ( 661701 ) <tomatensaft@gmail. c o m> on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @02:25PM (#21659311)
    Hehe, last time I (and some others) checked, Iranian leader did not in fact threaten to wipe anything off the map. It turned out to be a mistranslation by a bunch of incompetent journalists.
  • by altinos.com ( 919185 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @02:32PM (#21659411)
  • Re:Cause for concern (Score:1, Informative)

    by dropadrop ( 1057046 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @02:38PM (#21659581)

    Iran has vowed to annihilate Israel, which is an (undeclared) nuclear power.

    That's actually not true (vowing to annihilate Israel). This misconception started from a speech by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that was translated incorrectly by the BBC. It has been translated correctly afterwards, but the BBC (and 99% of western media which gladly jumped on their story) never apologized and straightened the mistake.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad#Anti-Israel_statements [wikipedia.org]

    I'm not saying he's a nice guy though.

  • Re:Cause for concern (Score:2, Informative)

    by base3 ( 539820 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @02:46PM (#21659709)
    If Iran ever really gets close, the facilities are going to be taken out by the IDF.
  • Re:Cause for concern (Score:2, Informative)

    by hjrnunes ( 1135957 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @02:48PM (#21659755)
    Well, for starters, it's not clear that "Iran has vowed to annihilate Israel"... Perhaps you should investigate who does the translation from Farsi to English for almost all the main media companies in the U.S. and Europe. It wouldn't surprise a lot of people - it didn't surprised me - that a lot of translations are done by MEMRI - http://www.memri.org// [memri.org]. So what's MEMRI?

    Yigal Carmon, MEMRI's founder, is a former advisor on terrorism to the Israeli Prime Ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin, so he actually worked for both Labor and Likud governments. Praise for MEMRI should be taken with a grain of salt since it is almost always motivated by politics, not the quantity or quality of MEMRI's work. MEMRI has gained currency with most pro-Israel writers, as well as right-wing publications. For example, New York Times writer Thomas Friedman, a influential foreign affairs columnist, has used MEMRI translations a number of times in his columns. MEMRI is cited in several publications, such as The Times, The Washington Times, The Weekly Standard, The Jerusalem Post, The National Review, The Toronto Sun, Wall Street Journal, Libertad, FrontPageMagazine, Columbia Journalism Review, Associated Press, etc.
    Bit of a bias heh? There's more:

    According to the National Review, 250 donors--foundations and individuals--fund MEMRI's activities. Among these private donors is the right-wing Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation , which gave MEMRI $100,000 from 1999 to 2000. In 2001, the Randolph Foundation gave MEMRI $100,000, and in 2004 the John M. Olin Foundation gave $5,000, according to Media Transparency.
    and also,

    MEMRI was co-founded by Meyrav Wurmser and Colonel Yigal Carmon, formerly of Israeli military intelligence, "both of whom were early critics of the Oslo accords."
    A little perl:

    * Elie Wiesel - Professional Holocaust survivor (as Uri Avnery refers to him), member of the Irgun Zvei Leumi [32], and professional moralist. "I hope you receive MEMRI's publications. I do. I find its material - translations and analyses of poisonous articles, hate-filled statements and slanderous accusations - vitally needed for the fight against antisemitism in the Arab world. Policy makers, legislators, teachers, and news commentators greatly benefit from its efforts to use truth in the service of peace." - Elie Wiesel, May 22, 2003[33]
    Read it all here: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute/ [sourcewatch.org] And even if Iran is developing nuclear weapons - and I believe they do - I really can't see why shouldn't they have the right to anyway... What? Are Iranians going to blow the world away? Ah ah... I don't think so... Besides, North Korea has nukes and I don't see any preemptive strikes... (I bet Japan would looove one of those..) Let's get serious gentlemen. Iran has the right to have a nuclear arsenal. Obviously, that would really upset the poor Israelis, since Iran would then be "preemptive-proof" and could openly support anti-israeli groups like Hezbollah and Hamas... But that's life... Besides, Israel has nukes too and I'm not so sure they are a model of rationality themselves... It's also ironic that the ONLY country that has ever used nuclear weapons was the U.S... Now isn't it?
  • by gobbo ( 567674 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @02:56PM (#21659903) Journal

    Thank you. That "wipe off the map" quote was deliberate translation disinformation, folks.

  • by bitrex ( 859228 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @03:06PM (#21660115)

    I think the problem of the massive infrastructure needed to create weapons grade fissionables and the use of supercomputers to model weapon designs goes hand-in-hand. If a nation has limited fissionable material available, they're going to want to build the most efficient design possible. Though most current US weapons were designed before the era of modern computing, the US had the luxury of data gathered from hundreds of atmospheric and underground tests to apply to those designs; a luxury which states like Iran obviously don't have. Sure, Iran doesn't need a bomb that can fit in a suitcase, but if they were pursuing nuclear weapons, they would want a weapon that doesn't waste a huge amount of fissile material and had some chance of fitting in a realistic delivery system, and a Fat Man copy isn't it.

    Is it possible to build an efficient, relatively compact (i.e. deliverable by cruise or ballistic missile or by fighter aircraft) weapon with no access to live test data and only modern consumer-grade computing power? Probably, but a supercomputer would make things quite a bit easier.

  • by laughing rabbit ( 216615 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @03:58PM (#21661041)
    And they had a popularly elected government overthrown with the aid of the CIA. A brutal dictator was installed afterwards. (Shah) Easy enough to see the U.S. as double-talking bad guys.
  • Re:Oh well. (Score:3, Informative)

    by QRDeNameland ( 873957 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @04:18PM (#21661437)

    Well, all of the 3 major religions, Christianity, Judaism and Islam consider it wrong to charge interest on loans.

    Why would Judaism, with circa 14 million adherents, be considered one of "the 3 major religions" while excluding Hinduism with circa 900 million adherents as a major religion [adherents.com]?

  • by big_paul76 ( 1123489 ) on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @04:38PM (#21661777)
    Um, I'm no fan of the current theocracy in Iran, but let's not pretend that it was a paradise before the 79 revolution, but they had a secret police, SAVAK, torture of dissidents, unlimited power to arrest and detain any opposition to the Shah.

    So, sure, things have gotten worse now, a theocracy is basically the worst case scenario for forms of government, but the point I'm trying to make is that the Shah was set up by the US, UK, and the CIA, and was responsible for some pretty awful stuff.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax [wikipedia.org]

    So let's recap: The US ran a covert operation and overthrew a democratically elected prime minister, to protect US interests (read: Oil companies). The guy the put in turns out to be fond of things like arbitrary arrest/detention and torture, so after the Iranian people threw him out on his ass, what the fuck do Americans expect Iranians to think of Americans?

    And, were it any other country, most of us on slashdot would be saying that the Shah DESERVED to be overthrown. We may not like the successor, but let's not pretend that the Shah and his government didn't have it coming.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11, 2007 @04:41PM (#21661817)
  • by abb3w ( 696381 ) on Wednesday December 12, 2007 @02:28AM (#21668033) Journal

    However supercomputers have now progressed to the point that you can actually TEST a bomb all in software.

    This is inaccurate.

    The basic nuclear design tools are finite element modeling and Monte Carlo simulations. With larger and larger number of elements modeled, you can get more and more accurate simulations in the same timeframe, so that the model has closer and closer resemblance to experimental reality. You also need some baseline data; some of that is declassified, some can be obtained experimentally on smaller scale using neutron beams, lasers, and high explosives. But the most important data on the high efficiency yield properties, and the algorithmic optimizations allowing rapid and detailed simulations, remain classified.

    Even with a supercomputer design, without an actual test, you can't be sure your extrapolations and simulations will be as good as you hope. Getting a nuclear explosion isn't the real challenge; it's making one that's efficient. (This may have been North Korea's problem; sub-kiloton yields can result if you make a mistake.) However, a good computer lets you get a better idea of the sorts design variants you want to play with before you go risking your very expensively obtained fissionables on a test explosion.

    But basic work and a rough model once you have the basic materials data? Two days on the HP-49 calculator, including programming time. A 7x7x7 element model gives you numbers that will be within 10% of the final... which does translate into an order of magnitude difference in possible yield, but anything from 1 to 100 kilotons still gets attention.

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