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Mozilla The Internet Upgrades

Firefox 3 Beta 3 Officially Released 337

firefoxy writes "Mozilla has officially released Firefox 3 beta 3. This release includes new features, user interface enhancements, and theme improvements. Ars Technica has a review with screenshots. 'Firefox 3 is rapidly approaching completion and much of the work that remains to be done is primarily in the category of fit and finish. There will likely only be one more beta release after this one before Mozilla begins issuing final release candidates.'"
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Firefox 3 Beta 3 Officially Released

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  • Extensions (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Midnight Thunder ( 17205 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @12:56AM (#22402224) Homepage Journal
    Looks good. All we need now are for the extension developers to make their extensions Firefox 3.0 friendly.
  • Re:So... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @01:09AM (#22402330)
    That's nice, they've moved on from pretending it doesn't exist, blaming the user, blaming extensions, blaming plugins, blaming the memory monitor: blaming everything except the code.

    However, as someone who routinely sees Firefox use 300MB (up to 100MB already!), I have to ask:

    Did they actually fix it?

    So they're addressing it. Does what they've done actually solve the problem? Or will I still watch Firefox use up to 500MB during a normal browsing session?
  • Re:Extensions (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NickCatal ( 865805 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @01:16AM (#22402370)
    Exactly! You would think there would be some 'legacy plugin support' for people to enable if they so desire. I don't know that all of my plugins are being actively developed, and I cannot stand this version of Firefox on OS X for much longer (the beta is much more stable, but no plugins work)
  • Re:Add-on finder? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Scoutn ( 992649 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @01:20AM (#22402394)
    Because going to the website is so hard? Talk about feature creep.
  • by bogaboga ( 793279 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @01:34AM (#22402484)
    ...that mention is made of [full] integration with GTK but no mention of KDE! My be it's time folks at KDE tuned Firefox to look at a native KDE application or make lots of noise while Firefox development is going on.
  • Re:YAY! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Kinky Bass Junk ( 880011 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @01:51AM (#22402592)
    That's not a bug, it's a feature. I frequently grab text from the last known addresses without necessarily wanting to go to the page again (E.g. download heavy sites, buggy sites that crash the browser that I need to submit a bug report on.)
  • Re:YAY! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kadin2048 ( 468275 ) <slashdot.kadin@x ... et minus painter> on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @02:15AM (#22402726) Homepage Journal

    immediately load urls I click on them from the address bar, instead of waiting for me to hit return
    No. That's a terrible idea, and would drive innumerable people (myself included) completely crazy. Text-entry fields shouldn't do anything when you click into them in order to edit. The return key is the proper way to actually cause an action to be taken on the entered text.

    That's a user interface paradigm that's decades old now, and just because the bunch of monkeys coding IE think it's fun to throw it out the window doesn't mean it's a good idea. Microsoft has the anti-Midas touch for interfaces these days anyway (cf. Vista generally, that new Office abomination generally, drop-down menus that hide half their contents for no particular reason, etc.). Emulating them would be a terrible idea.
  • Re:YAY! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Vectronic ( 1221470 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @02:38AM (#22402856)
    Yes I do, but how many average users are going to know that? I'd be willing to bet that the Parent didnt even know that...besides, thats only one of many features that its lacking in comparison to Opera, Avant, etc. There isnt much coding invlived to add a context menu on right-click, or even a tooltip saying "Yadda Yada for Yada!"
  • Re:Why not? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BZ ( 40346 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @02:54AM (#22402942)
    > and I would consider them to be far more "featured" than Web Browsers

    Even if that were true, did they have to maintain large data structures in memory at all times (forced to do so by the DOM specs)? Did they need to try to guarantee 50fps redraw (10ms timeouts being the standard "dhtml" sites use)?

    Plus, I'm not sure that your more "featured" is correct. But it's hard to compare features that are so different in concept (controlling hardware vs doing predictive guessing on search terms based on past searches... which is more of a feature? Which takes more memory? Should the past search database be in memory or on disk, for acceptable performance?).

    The real issue is that web browsers are trying to do everything at once and please a number of very different demographics (people with 100MB (I kid you not!) HTML files full of tables, people with pages that link in 800MB (again I kid you not) of images, users who want instantaneous response to any action without any memory being used to hold partially precomputed results, etc, etc).

    Really, you can have fast, low memory usage, or doing all the bells and whistles people want out of a browser. Pick two, or maybe even one and a half.
  • Re:YAY! (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @03:19AM (#22403068)
    Well, maybe that's true (though I never would have guessed it in a million years). Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work in 3.0b2. Or maybe they just decided to leave it out of the Mac version for fun -- treating Mac users like second-class citizens seems to be a popular hobby of the Firefox team.

  • Re:So... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Zantetsuken ( 935350 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @03:31AM (#22403124) Homepage
    Everybody always says they get these insane memory leaks? Personally I've never had these problems - I've got to wonder, just what the damned hell is everybody doing that causes this? Typically I only have 5 tabs open per window multiplied by 3 instances at the most. I close tabs I'm not using, and if I'm done with the browser for more than 5 or 10 minutes. I have about 8 extensions right now - and I typically only see about 60 or 70 megabytes of RAM usage (still not ideal, but not what some people say). I think the most I've ever seen Firefox 2.0.x consume is about 150MiB of memory. This is on my home desktop running WinXP Pro SP2, with an AMD Athlon 4200x2 and 2 GiB of RAM...

    Like I said, just what the damned hell are people doing that their Firefox sessions consume 300+ MiB of RAM? For god's sake people, close tabs you haven't used in an hour, if you're leaving the house for 3 hours, close Firefox entirely (unless you're using it to download something)...
  • Beta or not... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Christophotron ( 812632 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @04:05AM (#22403334)
    It's finally good enough for me to switch permanently. Weave replaces google browser sync (because google hasn't updated their extension). Some hacks are still necessary to make other useful extensions work properly, so it's still a little rough around the edges. (see Nightly Testing tools and extensions.checkCompatibility=false). But damn it, I've waited long enough. Firefox 3 is here and I love it.
  • by TheSunborn ( 68004 ) <mtilsted@gmail. c o m> on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @04:10AM (#22403364)
    btw: Does anyone know how to scale the TEXT in firefox 3?
    Ctrl +/- now scale the entire page, insted of just the text(Which looks bad with many images) -(
  • Re:YAY! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Keeper Of Keys ( 928206 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @05:35AM (#22403812) Homepage
    Please don't talk as if you're the only person whose opinion matters. I agree with one of your points and disagree with another. Do you care which way round? 'Course not. UI preferences are very subjective, and certainly not life-or-death. Have some respect for others' points of view.
  • by iliketrash ( 624051 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @07:26AM (#22404288)
    TFA says that on OS X the new look is so fine that Camino users may switch. Not to denigrate the fine work of the Firefox team, but at least part of the new look is "faux" and is not really OS X goodness--in particular, the toolbar and its associated sheet doesn't behave like a real Mac app, pop-up menus look weird, and the tabs in the Advanced section of the preferences window look like tabs did several years ago. Also, scrolling is still jerky when using the trackpad on a Powerbook (but smooth when using the thumb bar--go figure) and there is still no integration with Keychain, OS X's password manager, and text copied from a web page looses its style and formatting when pasting into another program.

    I suppose there is a plug-in somewhere to create thumbnail tabs and another one to make per-site preferences and another to save workspaces and another to make resizable text entry boxes, but for me, I get all that and much more in Omniweb (www.omnigroup.com), still the gold standard for browsers.

    I am encouraged by the promise of better memory use. I've never seen a browser that didn't leak memory like a sieve.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @08:48AM (#22404724)
    The "browser.send_pings" variable is false by default, unlike Beta 2 where it was true.
  • Re:So... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Guinness2702 ( 840158 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @09:52AM (#22405168)
    "from what I have heard, it has to do with reclaiming used memory....[snip]"

    Or, as the parent called it "memory fragmentation"
  • Re:So... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by edmicman ( 830206 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @10:33AM (#22405554) Homepage Journal
    Who the f- leaves their browser open and running for weeks?!?
  • by Millennium ( 2451 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @10:51AM (#22405784)
    My typical memory-burning web surfing session is to go to Google News or especially to Fark.com, open up about 100 tabs of potentially interesting news stories, and then go read them one at a time, closing each one after I've read it. It's one thing to have the browser use lots of memory while I've got all the tabs open - but when I've finished with them all, and just have the original page back, or even hit "Home" to get "about:blank", the browser typically *still* has over 100MB of RAM and is often burning 20-70% of CPU. That's a memory leak!.

    Not necessarily; all that means is that Firefox isn't freeing up memory at a time when you think it should. It could very well be freeing up that memory at a different time, one the programmers deemed more appropriate. Is this the case? I don't know, and neither do you. It would be in your best interests to dig a little deeper than anecdotal evidence with a sample size of one before making accusations like this.
  • Re:So... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by gnulxusr ( 729574 ) <apollon@nOspAm.planewalk.net> on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @11:50AM (#22406626)
    ...people who also have their X sessions running for weeks? That does include me and most of my friends and family. I do try to keep my tab count low but it's a losing battle... most people I know have already given up and let their FF sessions grow beyond 2-digit tabs. You can't have too much of a good thing, right?
  • Re:So... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jvkjvk ( 102057 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @11:56AM (#22406700)
    Why shouldn't you be able to?!?
  • by IdahoEv ( 195056 ) on Wednesday February 13, 2008 @02:10PM (#22408670) Homepage
    Give me these three things, and I'll give you pages that smoothly scale to all screen sizes and resolutions:

    1) 100% of the public using browsers that correctly implement CSS. 40% are still using the superbly broken IE6, and FF2 (20%) doesn't implement display: inline-block, which is important for making bordered tabs and such that scale with the size of their fonts.

    2) Full SVG support in all browsers. IE has none, the others have a mix of laughable crap.

    3) Clients who trust the designer's artistic sense and ability to compat-test on multiple rigs, instead of, say, looking at it on one windows machine in IE6 at 800x600 resolution and complaining "no, we want the text to wrap after this word, not that word".

    Sadly, this environment doesn't exist. Sizing things in pixels and limiting the scope of the primary content to 780px wide is STILL the most reliable way to get a consistent appearance that makes clients happy.

    SVG doesn't even really exist in any substantive, usable way, so graphics have to be done in pixels. Font sizes are usually scaled to match those sizes. At least all major browsers will let you override that.

    This is the environment we have, and trust me the designers aren't any happier about it than you are. I do fluid-width displays every time my clients will let me (~20%), and I always try to make sure the page won't break when the fonts scale. Beyond that, I'm constrained by the tools I've got.

    And I have a 16:10 ratio monitor... which means that often I will read a web site and there will be a narrow strip of text in the center, and tons of wasted space to either side, again because some web designer hard-coded things with pixel counts.


    Highres monitors that wide aren't made for having a single window fill the whole workspace. Super-wide columns aren't readable anyway; human eyes prefer text in narrow columns that wrap quickly.

    Try tiling your web browser window next to other work windows, or email, or even 2 or 3 browser windows side-by-side. You'll be happier.

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