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Vista SP1 Is Even Less Compatible 278

Posted by kdawson
from the preemptive-diasabling dept.
I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Microsoft is now saying that Vista SP1 disables some 3rd party applications. The KB article on SP1 incompatibility states: 'For reliability reasons, Microsoft blocks these programs from starting after you install Windows Vista SP1.' It does link to several vendor support pages with updates or workarounds. Unfortunately, at least one of the suggestions consists of merely disabling part of the program, which could leave you with half an anti-virus solution."
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Vista SP1 Is Even Less Compatible

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 23, 2008 @02:04PM (#22527910)
    Does Vista really need anti-virus software anyway?
    • by Atti K. (1169503) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @02:07PM (#22527936)
      Does anybody need Vista anyway?
      • by Mex (191941)
        No, but most vendors sell new machines with it. I know Dell supposedly sells PCs with Ubuntu and XP, but I'm in Mexico and they only offer Vista on new PCs.

        I plan to try Vista but I'll most likely end up replacing it with XP, I have some custom software that I need and it doesn't run on Vista.
    • by Kjella (173770)
      Any system with decentralized software sources would. If Linux finally got anything like klik/klik2, glick, zero install or whatever to be popular it'd need it too. Technically you might need the same today, but adding additional software repositories is so rare it's not a practical problem, and any malware in the standard repositories is easy to kill at the source.

      Many closed source/payware applications won't go with the reposittory model, so I guess you could say it's the lack of payware that means Linux
  • Blocks or warns? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nurb432 (527695) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @02:04PM (#22527914) Homepage Journal
    If i warns me, thats cool, but if it totally blocks me from running what i purchased. They can take a flying leap.
    • Re:Blocks or warns? (Score:5, Informative)

      by LocoSpitz (175100) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @03:38PM (#22528636)
      Tell the company you bought your software from to take a leap; they agreed to the blocking. Or you could, you know, update your security software to the latest, compatible version through the links helpfully provided by Microsoft. Seems like common sense, keeping your security software up to date...
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by dbIII (701233)
        People buy computers for the applications. If Vista gets in the way of AutoCAD or whatever they will use WinXP, 2000, 98 or whatever else will run it.
        • Then I guess it's a good thing for Vista that nearly no apps are listed aside from Antivirus which should be updated anyway!
  • It's normal (Score:5, Insightful)

    by koro666 (947362) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @02:09PM (#22527954)

    People are quick to slam Microsoft again here. For those reading TFKBA, most of the apps are either:

    1. Anti-virus programs. AV programs have a reputation of hooking on undocumented kernel stuff, so of course a major OS update is going to break them off.
    2. Other programs which abuse undocumented functions or quirks/bugs in Windows, and these get changed/fixed in a subsequent release.

    In conclusion, move along, nothing to see here.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by kemenaran (1129201)
      Sure - plus there are far less compatibility issues with Vista SP1 than with XP SP2 (which was a real pita for a lot of users).
    • Re:It's normal (Score:5, Insightful)

      by VirusEqualsVeryYes (981719) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @02:21PM (#22528064)
      There's even less to see here as all the security programs have updates.

      Bitdefender AV - A supported version (2008 or a later version) is now available.
      Jiangmin KV AV v10 - A supported version is now available.
      Jiangmin KV AV v2008 - A supported version is now available.
      Trend Micro Internet Security - A supported version (16.1 or a later version) is now available.
      Zone Alarm Security Suite - A supported version (7.1.218.0 or a later version) is now available.
      Rising Personal Firewall - A supported version (2008 version) is now available.
      What is this "half an anti-virus solution" FUD crap in the summary?
      • Well, if you had read TFA, you might have seen this part:

        With the 16.05 update, which is available now, Trend disabled a behavioral monitoring module in the software in order to avoid issues with blue screens, said Kim. The 16.1 update -- which restores the module and meets Microsoft's certification standards -- will be available in early March, said Kim. Both updates are being distributed through Trend's auto update service.

        (emphasis added)

        Yes, they all have updates. You should've bothered to read what th

    • by dbIII (701233)
      Nothing to see here due to poor documentation of kernel stuff. People are also foprgetting that these applications exist to work around flaws in the platform in the first place. Microsoft is being slammed for more fundamental reasons than the poster above is talking about.

      Log in to safe mode as Administrator, malware processes are not running but MS Windows stupid file permissions implementation locks me out from deleting it even as Administrator. Log out and fdisk from orbit - it's the only way to be su

  • Article is FUD (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The list of blocked programs encompasses about five programs, four of which have new versions that are compatible with SP1. The entire list of programs with less compatibility is about a dozen programs, and I only counted three of which do not have updated versions that support SP1.
  • Vista again? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Eddy Luten (1166889) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @02:16PM (#22528024)

    Why are we still even talking about Vista? Is anybody really using Vista these days? Governments and Organizations have spoken out against Vista, Office 2007 and it lives in infamy everywhere else. Even Microsoft's Eric Traut [youtube.com] has somewhat spoken out against Vista and Windows in general.

    Everywhere I go people say I'll stick to XP for as long as I can, even in the Enterprise. These type of /. submissions are getting really old really fast since they all repeat the same message: stay the hell away from Vista.

    • by garett_spencley (193892) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @02:20PM (#22528048) Journal
      Huh ?

      Sorry but this is slashdot. Sticking it to Microsoft NEVER gets old.

      Are you new around here or something ?
      • Re:Vista again? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by BeanThere (28381) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @04:48PM (#22529084)

        Sorry but this is slashdot. Sticking it to Microsoft NEVER gets old.

        I'm about as anti-MS as they come, but even I'll stop sticking it to Microsoft the day they start making good products and start using quality as their primary market differentiator instead of strategy, deception and lock-in. It is as simple as that and the bashing will stop.

        To Eddy: Vista may be a joke but it's huge and is selling by the million because most people get it with their new computers and don't know better, and crap as it is, it's the platform of the future that will run the majority of computers sold for quite some time to come ... also, ISVs (of which many of us develop for) HAVE TO use it to make sure our apps run on Vista for our customers --- so yes, here in the real world, all these Vista messes ARE news on a tech site where many of us will have to deal with the fall-out in one way or another (whether it's on the corporate side or just helping grandma with her computer etc.).

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by pembo13 (770295)
      I am seeing that my school is switching to Vista on office machines, not sure if it is due to some support contract obligation, or it is actually voluntarily -- just happy am no longer in the computer support business.
    • Re:Vista again? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by webheaded (997188) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @02:38PM (#22528176) Homepage
      You know, I'm honestly really tired of seeing this same lame ass rant over and over again in every single MS article. Kudos to you at least for keeping it relatively short. This happens EVERY SINGLE TIME Microsoft releases an new OS. They can't win, even if they DID write the best software known to man, and you know why? Legacy compatibility. You guys bitch when it doesn't work with your old shit and if it DOES work with your old shit, you bitch because the OS is bloated and runs like shit. There's a price for compatibility and if you think you have the easy and simple solution, you're probably wrong.

      Every time one of these comes out there's someone ranting about the downfall of Microsoft and Windows and blah blah blah, and it never happens. They usually get Insightful mod points and everyone has a circle jerk over it. You've been doing it since Slashdot came into existence. It's ridiculous and it makes me laugh to see it keep happening over and over again and people don't even realize that they ARE doing it over and over again. Is Vista perfect? God no, not by any means. Is it a step down from XP? For the time being, perhaps. It has it's merits...I use it on a daily basis so I've got a pretty good leverage on the subject, unlike 90% of the people bitching who are using Linux at the moment and have spent all of 5 minutes on Vista. Shit changes from release to release...it happens. It sucks...it's annoying. It frustrates the hell out of me when they arbitrarily move things around just because they think it looks pretty. Was there a point in renaming "Add/Remove Programs" to "Program and Features" really? No...is the world going to come crashing down because of it? No probably not.

      Also I keep seeing you guys whine about RAM usage...have none of you even read what the features of Vista are? It uses lots of RAM and caches your most frequently launched programs there...no matter what you are doing, you will always have high RAM usage...why are we even debating that? Furthermore, again, this happens every time they release an OS. It always requires better hardware. Trying to run it on an old piece of shit computer probably causes at least half of the problems we see. They can't forsee every conceivable hardware configuration...they just can't. It's impossible. I mean for christ's sake...Apple has problems too and they've got an EXTREMELY limited amount of hardware to accomodate for. What does that tell you? It tells you that it's REALLY hard to account for these things and if you think Linux does it so much better, I'd have to laugh at you. Linux still supports a laughable amount of hardware compared to Windows. Not necessarily Linux's fault, but it's still not there and people still have problems with it.

      What I'm really trying to say here is that I really wish people would take a realistic and logical look at this kind of stuff. The rampant fanboyism disgusts me sometimes. If you like Linux, good for you. That's awesome. I like it too. I like Windows as well...for different reasons. They both have their merits...so does MacOSX (it's quite sexy I'll admit). Just because you like one thing though...does that mean you have to have fangasm and go apeshit about every competing product's flaws while completely ignoring the flaws of your favorite? Furthermore honestly...who even gives a shit? I'm sure most people here that aren't rabid fanboys are really getting sick of seeing the same shit like this over and over again, you know?
      • You know, I'm honestly really tired of seeing this same lame ass rant over and over again in every single MS article. Kudos to you at least for keeping it relatively short. This happens EVERY SINGLE TIME Microsoft releases an new OS. They can't win, even if they DID write the best software known to man, and you know why? Legacy compatibility. You guys bitch when it doesn't work with your old shit and if it DOES work with your old shit, you bitch because the OS is bloated and runs like shit. There's a price

      • Re:Vista again? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by dummondwhu (225225) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @03:11PM (#22528428)
        When XP came out, I said, "I'm sticking to Win2K as long as a I can and never going to XP. Bah, the only thing that keeps me on Windows is games." Then I got a new PC with XP installed and realized it was pretty decent. Then I said, "I'm sticking with XP as long as I can and never going to Vista. Bah, the only thing that keeps me on Windows is games." Then, I got a PS3 and that was good enough to satisfy my mild gaming interests. Finally, I had no reason to stick with Windows. Then, I got a new laptop with Vista installed and realized, "Hey, this isn't as bad as the hype."

        In my college days and for a while after, fiddling with hardware and building a working box with linux really interested me. Now, I'm tired of dealing with drivers and all the b.s. I just want an OS that lets me do what I need to do. I don't have unusual needs for hardware so I don't give a shit if Vista won't support this or that. I whipped up an order from Dell and it showed up and it works and that's that.

        Vista isn't perfect and never will be. But neither is any OS from any vendor. And certainly, Vista needs some work in the short term. But, when some linux distro is robust enough to unseat Windows, it will. That's the way markets work. Until then, I just don't have the time to pretend anymore that Windows is soooooo inferior for the vast majority of users that just surf the web, read e-mail, play DVDs and other typical stuff.
        • by Compholio (770966) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @03:56PM (#22528748)

          Now, I'm tired of dealing with drivers and all the b.s. I just want an OS that lets me do what I need to do. I don't have unusual needs for hardware so I don't give a shit if Vista won't support this or that. I whipped up an order from Dell and it showed up and it works and that's that.
          I completely agree with you, playing with drivers is a pain in the ass - but that's true on both sides of the isle. This last time around I ordered from System76 and got a nice Ubuntu box with no driver issues, support for updates, and all beautifully pre-installed.
      • Re:Vista again? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by rhizome (115711) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @03:12PM (#22528434) Homepage Journal
        There's a price for compatibility and if you think you have the easy and simple solution, you're probably wrong.

        No, the price of compatibility is closed-source software. To recognize how little value both of these conditions have, consider that I can still compile current versions of tcpdump or fvwm or openoffice on RedHat 6, FreeBSD 5 and Solaris 8. While you ably demonstrate that a reasonable argument can be made for Windows improving over the years, your point boils down to the fact that Windows used to be worse than it is now. This is not a glowing endorsement and speaks little of the standards that they should be held up to. Microsoft's problems are due only to their own policies, and "compatibility" is only an indicator that they've built a fence that they have trouble climbing.
        • by mchawi (468120)
          Yeah, I can just see telling my mom "ok, now go to the command line and ....no...command line....no...click the terminal thi...no not ...oh I give up".

          To put it another way, some IT people, people that like to tinker and developers have valid reasons to prefer open source software. To the typical user it is still just as closed source because they have no idea what 'source' is. This is why it isn't winning people over in mass numbers.

          The second point people always make is that 'the hardware requirements'.
          • by rhizome (115711)
            Yeah, I can just see telling my mom "ok, now go to the command line and ....no...command line....no...click the terminal thi...no not ...oh I give up".

            So many strawmen...

            The point is not about Linux usability, it's about the problems Microsoft has created for itself. The fact that closed-source Windows software has compatibility issues depending on the version of the OS beneath it has everything to do with nobody being able to provide a version that doesn't fall into the compatibility trap. It's not cost-ef
      • by dbIII (701233)

        They can't win, even if they DID write the best software known to man, and you know why? Legacy compatibility

        If they did that properly I wouldn't have to keep some Win98 machines :(

        We bash this platform because we know a lot about it and have seen better - it is that simple.

        RAM usage is also a major issue in 32 bit Vista due to the 2GB limit from incomplete support of the Pentium Pro and later processors - putting in more memory no longer solves problems.

      • Re:Vista again? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Pr0xY (526811) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @11:16PM (#22531878)
        First of all, let me say I agree with you. Backwards compatibility while a noble goal, it is difficult to accomplish while making real worth while changes to a large system. However, I have a proposed solution... why not have an *optionally installed software compatibility layer, which would work similarly to wine? It could hypothetically have the same compatibility as Windows XP (so long as it's all user space, drivers are a whole other ball of wax). And not necessarily be needed. You could even have a special directory for legacy stuff and use something like syminks to keep things accessible to the user. Something like, "C:\CompatXP\" which all legacy apps would be "chrooted" to would work nicely, your regular file system could be present as a separate driver letter or something. Finally, if anyone is in a position to do this correctly, it's the people who wrote the APIs to begin with!

        Heck, they could do this for each generation of windows too. Like "C:\Compat2K\", etc. In fact, I could see this as a very nice upgrade path as well. There are tons of opportunities here to keep the legacy optional and very functional. I just don't see why no-one at MS seems to have thought of this.

        proxy
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I think it's frustrating that a lot of people ignore what Vista gets right and simply say XP is always better. For example, in Vista, if a video driver crashes, the system reinitializes it like nothing happened. To my knowledge, XP didn't do that. I've been hit with that one a few times a week, since NVIDIA and ATI put out such crappy, perpetual-beta drivers that probably haven't been tested with my motherboard/GPU combination.

      Or take the fact that Internet Explorer now runs as a different user. It's no
    • According to my server logs, about 11% of the public uses Vista. Here is a screen of my XiTi report [languesvivantes.com], complete with pie chart.
    • Hi. I use Vista. I'm extremely happy with it. There are plenty of happy Vista users out there, even on /.. I am thoroughly convinced, by now, that the Vista-hate is more hype than substance... there's just nothing that damn bad that necessarily drives you away from it (for the average user), unless you're opposed to Windows in general and not just Vista.
  • Microsoft is being extraordinarily abusive towards its customers, in my opinion.

    Customers are being pushed toward buying Windows Vista, even though it is clearly not a finished product, and maybe even not a desirable product.

    If a company needs to buy 1,000 new computers, it is placed in a terrible position. Will it buy Windows XP, a product that Bill Gates, software's Dr. Death, has declared is Mainstream Support Retired [microsoft.com] on 4/14/2009? If it does, it will be forced to pay extra when Microsoft desides to stop supporting Windows XP. And every Microsoft customer needs official support because of the huge, huge number of vulnerabilities that are found in Microsoft products.

    Operating systems don't naturally have so many vulnerabilities. Users of Mac computers don't even bother to run anti-spyware and anti-virus software because they don't have problems. Large numbers of vulnerabilities are a built-in shortcoming of Microsoft products; apparently Microsoft doesn't let its programmers finish their work. Huge numbers of vulnerabilities force an unnatural connection with the supplier; the user is dependent on the supplier for patches; that creates opportunities for control. Vulnerabilities make more money for Microsoft because people are forced to "upgrade".

    When Windows XP was first released, it was very, very buggy. Windows XP became relatively usable without hassles 3 years after its introduction, with the release of SP2. Service Pack 2 for XP fixed more than 330 problems, if I remember correctly, and some of those were not documented.

    We have seen numerous reasons to believe that Windows Vista will also be full of hassles at least until Vista SP2.

    Microsoft's customers were forced to upgrade to Windows XP because Windows 98 had an unstable file system, an unstable registry, and lots of problems with "DLL Hell" and the "Blue Screen of Death". Customers had to endure 3 bad years with Windows XP pre-SP2. Since the release of SP2, there have been only 3 relatively good years with Windows XP, and now Microsoft is arranging pressure to have bad years again.

    That's ugly in my opinion, and I'm only one of many who think that way. This is all being done by billionaires who want nothing more than more money; that's sick.

    Remember, Microsoft managers are sinking the company over the long term to get short-term profit.

    With operating systems, there is lock-in. Linux is not an easy option because re-writing software and re-training is too expensive in most cases. But once a reasonable alternative is available, Microsoft will have difficulty finding customers, it seems to me.

    It's fine if Microsoft introduces a new product. But there should not be pressure to buy the new product until it is stable. The "new" OS product should not be designed to require users to buy new hardware, as it seems is true with Windows Vista. Remember that Microsoft serves the system builders, who want everyone to need more hardware; the final customer can be dis-regarded and dis-repected because of OS lock-in.

    One of the biggest and most respected IT magazines is rejecting Windows Vista: Save Windows XP [infoworld.com]. Quote: "More than 75,000 people have signed InfoWorld's "Save XP" petition in the three weeks since it was launched - many with passionate, often emotional pleas to not be forced to make a change."
    • ReactOS (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Akaihiryuu (786040) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @02:48PM (#22528244)
      The project I'm really keeping an eye on right now is ReactOS. http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html [reactos.org] It's still alpha right now, but they're expecting to hit beta later this year. The initial beta release is supposed to be around 70% Windows compatible (realistically most things will work even then because the last 30% is stuff that isn't used that much). They're aiming for 100% compatibility of course...probably shortly before 1.0. Once that hits there will be a Windows alternative with absolutely 0 Microsoft code. It has the potential to make them irrelevant.
      • Once that hits there will be a Windows alternative with absolutely 0 Microsoft code. It has the potential to make them irrelevant.

        Even if ReactOS is capable of running 100% of windows software, it would be nearly impossible for them to reach the level of market saturation that microsoft enjoys. And it would be very difficult to describe a product with such high presence as being so easily made irrelevant.

        With that said, I'll also say that I would be first to celebrate any such falling of windows. I run any OS I can in the place of windows, anywhere I can. But saying that ReactOS has the potential to make windows "irrelevant" i

        • "Even if ReactOS is capable of running 100% of windows software, it would be nearly impossible for them to reach the level of market saturation that Microsoft enjoys."

          I wonder about that. I think most companies have strict controls over what software can be installed, because employees have very narrow needs at work. So, if ReactOS is able to run those programs, why not switch rather than be forced to have the painful experience of buying and running Windows Vista?

          It seems that ReactOS [reactos.org] will not be rea
    • by tm2b (42473)

      Microsoft is being extraordinarily abusive towards its customers, in my opinion.
      And next on Slashdot: Sun expected to rise in east, and water is wet. GIFs at 11.
    • In a comment to another story titled Psychology of past trauma [slashdot.org], SgtChaireBourne explains that the picture I painted of Windows XP in my parent comment is actually quite rosy; Windows XP was worse that I said.
  • by Xtifr (1323) on Saturday February 23, 2008 @02:45PM (#22528220) Homepage
    After I had a couple of old Win95-era games that refused to install on my brother's Win2k system (I haven't had Windows for nearly a decade, so I was thinking of giving them to him), I've been wondering if it might not be possible to get Wine [winehq.org] to run on Windows. Sounds like this might be an idea that will only become more and more reasonable as time goes on. So...how about it, Wine team? Can we possibly get Wine for Windows? It could run on top of Cygwin/X [cygwin.com]. :)
  • Huh? (Score:2, Funny)

    by MeMeMeMe (1073430)
    What's Vista?
  • If the OS runs better, i could careless if another company has to update their software to run on it.

    Progress has its price.

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