VW Set To Release Diesel Hybrid

SUVs_SUCK writes "It's official — Volkswagen is unveiling a hybrid to challenge the mighty Toyota Prius. And not just any hybrid, but a diesel-electric hybrid it says will deliver 69.9 mpg. Auto Express says the Golf hybrid will be offered for sale in Europe by the end of next year. No word yet on when we might see it in the US."

Which Gallon?

[compwizrd]

US and Imperial gallons vary significantly, 70mpg in imperial is 58 mpg in US gallons.. still quite good.

E85 = gasoline

[Ihlosi]

That's not true. Quite a few modern engines are factory certified to run at least on E85. Try running your (modern) diesel engine with E85, and you don't even need a bad batch to kiss it goodbye. It'll pretty much kill it as soon as you try to start the engine.

Re:Probably not.

[0100010001010011]

Biodiesel IS NOT ETHANOL. E85 is an ethanol blend. B% is a biodiesel blend. Most modern manufactures will warranty up to B5.

The problem with Biodiesel is that too much of it is out of spec. A recent survey done by I forget who found that 50% of "biodiesel" didn't meet the ASTM specification. Imagine if 50% of gasoline or diesel didn't meet the required spec, engines would be shitting out left and right.

Get the stock and specifications under control and then we'll talk.

On crack?

[RingDev]

Modern diesels are fine with BD. The main issue with running BD was on older engines with rubber fuel lines that the BD would dissolve, leading to clogged injectors and damaged fuel lines. But you can buy a VW diesel and run BD20 in it with out violating the warrenty. You can run BD100 in them just fine, but since BD isn't quite as standardized as PD they will not honor the warrenty if there is a fuel related problem and you've been running anything over BD20. In fact, the new ULSD fuel has lost a good deal of it's natural lubricity. Running 20% BD, 80% ULSD will actually get you the lower emissions of the ULSD and the lubricity of LSD.

-Rick

Re:Why Hybrid?

[RingDev]

All the nasty, difficult to dispose of and full of toxic chemical batteries aren't improving that value by a hell of a lot, then.

Batteries are difficult to dispose of, but really easy to recycle.

-Rick

Re:Which Gallon?

[iainl]

It's US gallons; UK Channel 4 quote the mileage as 83.1mpg. As I noted elsewhere before I realised the mistake, the best a current Golf offers is 62.8 mpg Imperial, so if this really were an Imperial value it wouldn't gain you much over the current offering.

Re:Which Gallon?

[iainl]

A Fiat Panda is a significantly smaller car, though - a compromise not everyone is able to make (speaking as someone who upgraded from a Panda-sized car to a Golf-variant when my son was on the way, and immediately realised it was the right decision when I tried to put a pushchair in the boot).

US Vaporware

[CompMD]

"No word yet on when we might see it in the US."

We won't. The United States has long hated diesel cars. I can't think of a single domestic automaker that has a diesel car. And the number of imports is *very* limited. When you can find one, you will not receive any discounts, no special offers apply to them, and the dealers will avoid making you a deal on the price. On top of that, it is not always easy to find diesel. In the Chicago area it was a complete pain to find a station that sold diesel for my old Mercedes. I was thankful that there was one near my home, but the next nearest one was four towns away.

I'd love to see this type of car around here. I get sick and tired of listening to my friends tell me how they are so proud that their new, spartan, unimaginative, boring, uncomfortable Toyotas, Hondas, and Fords get 30mpg on the highway. Although I do love watching them flip out when I show them how my 24 year old, 5000 lb, loaded with bells and whistles, diesel Mercedes sedan gets 38mpg on the highway.

Sigh. I don't know when we're gonna "get it" over here.

Re:US Vaporware

[chill]

For the longest time, there were different regulations in different U.S. States in regards to diesel passenger vehicles. For example, they were illegal to sell in Massachusetts. Essentially, Mass and a few other States lowered the sulphur emission standards to impossible levels.

Then came Federally mandated low-sulphur diesel fuel. This stuff allows good diesel engines, like VW's TDI series, to meet emission standards in all 50 U.S. States. As this low-sulphur diesel works its way into the system, then those restrictive laws will no longer mean much. I was driving in Central Indiana the other day and saw a big sticker on one of the diesel pumps that advertised low-sulphur diesel.

U.S. automakers were biding their time on this issue until the fuel was available so they could sell diesel cars in all 50 States. I've read about diesel programs with all major American auto makers for their light truck lines; for Jeep; and even a couple for standard passenger cars.

http://www.clean-diesel.org/highway.html [clean-diesel.org]

Re:Which Gallon?

[ArsonSmith]

I think I like that idea actually. I do remember reading about the measurement in the past but never really thought about it. Think of L/100km as I need to go 'x;km, I'll ned 'y'L of fuel. vs. MPG, I have 'x' Gallons of fuel I can go 'y' Miles.

Re:I'm not so sure

[Spoke]

and cleans up the emissions

Frankly, that is the #1 reason that diesels aren't selling in the US right now.

Currently even the cleanest diesel cars due out this year are just barely clean enough to squeak by US emissions standards. Particulate and NOx emissions are insanely high compared to to gas cars.

Producing a car that gets great mileage (and low CO2 emissions) AND low pollutant emissions as well is not an easy task. The Prius hybrid is still by far the leader in fuel economy AND low emissions.

By the time this VW diesel hybrid is out, the next generation Prius will be out shortly. Don't forget that the current Prius is already nearly 5 years old - and no-one has anything that really competes in terms of fuel economy, emissions and practicality.

Re:Finally!

[rah1420]

Geez, I don't know what took them so long - locomotives have been doing it this way for years.

Well, it's about damn time. :)

Re:biodiesel?

[bhtooefr]

First, I'll note that Gothmolly was wrong about the injection pressure on the Pumpe-Duese TDIs. It's 30,000 PSI, not 20,000. The common rail TDIs will be about 30,000 PSI as well.

Anyway, there's many problems. First is the viscosity of the vegetable oil. It's thick enough that the pump (or pumps in the PD cars) has to work a *LOT* harder to pump it, stressing it beyond the design specifications.

Second is... once you heat it to even get it close to the correct viscosity, it loses its ability to properly cool the fuel system.

Third is... in the injectors, the extreme heat there causes it to break down into its component fatty acids and glycerin... which then cokes on the injectors. When that happens, the spray pattern of the injectors is worsened, which can cause streams of fuel to hit things in the engine... causing major damage.

Look on TDIClub [tdiclub.com] in the Alternative Diesel Fuels forum... there are various threads showing pictures of the carnage that WVO can cause.