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The Internet Media

Comcast Makes Nice with BitTorrent 161

An anonymous reader writes "In a dramatic turn-around of relations, cable provider Comcast and BitTorrent are now working together. The deal comes as BitTorrent tries to put its reputation for illegal filesharing behind it. The companies are in talks to collaborate on ways to run BitTorrent's technology more smoothly on Comcast's broadband network. Comcast is actually entertaining the idea of using BitTorrent to transport video files more effectively over its own network in the future, said Tony Warner, Comcast's chief technology officer. '"We are thrilled with this," Ashwin Navin, cofounder and president of BitTorrent, said of the agreement. BitTorrent traffic will be treated the same as that from YouTube Inc., Google Inc. or other Internet companies, he said. It was important that Comcast agreed to expand Internet capacity, because broadband in the United States is falling behind other areas of the world, Navin said. Referring to the clashes with Comcast, he said: "We are not happy about the companies' being in the limelight."'"
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Comcast Makes Nice with BitTorrent

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  • O RLY? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 27, 2008 @11:27AM (#22882274)
    So I can look forward to 0.3KB/s downloads for using "too much" bandwidth? Haven't we been down this road with Comcast before, advertising "unlimited" internet and then sending sh*t-o-grams to people who go above an unwritten limit?
  • by brunascle ( 994197 ) on Thursday March 27, 2008 @11:31AM (#22882322)
    well now the question is: does this refer to all bittorrent (the protocol) traffic, or just torrents approved by BitTorrent, Inc. (the company)?
  • Re:huh? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by eudaemon ( 320983 ) * on Thursday March 27, 2008 @11:33AM (#22882348)
    Really, submitter posted this story 5 days too early.

    But seriously this just means Comcast is going to work with the bittorrent folks
    to put tighter than ever controls in place. They'll shape traffic to prefer the comcast
    servers and peers to those same peers or any others talking to non-comcast servers.
    They way they can claim to be embracing p2p traffic while actually throttling anything
    they don't like.

  • Money? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by webword ( 82711 ) on Thursday March 27, 2008 @11:35AM (#22882364) Homepage
    I'm looking and looking and looking but I can't find anything where money is changing hands between these companies. Someone has to be making money on this deal but I can't figure it out. Either that, or BitTorrent has a lot of data to make Comcast look really bad. So, they are taking a path that keeps their "evil deeds" hidden. Does anyone have any insight here on the financial deal, if there is one?
  • by glindsey ( 73730 ) on Thursday March 27, 2008 @11:35AM (#22882366)
    BitTorrent the company is not BitTorrent the protocol. Bram Cohen may be working with Comcast to get the "legitimate" BitTorrent 6.0 (with its closed source code and protocol) operating cleanly on their networks, but don't expect that this will magically work for every client and tracker out there. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they actively collaborate to cripple the original, open protocol.
  • by Volanin ( 935080 ) on Thursday March 27, 2008 @11:36AM (#22882374)
    Interestingly, this news comes almost at the same time Azureus develops a plug-in to detect ISPs that cripple your torrents transfers:
    http://gizmodo.com/372442/bittorrent-plugin-detects-isps-raping-your-torrents [gizmodo.com]

    Of course, a peaceful solution such as this agreement is always preferred, as it enlightens more and more people about the true nature of BitTorrent, and opens up the doors for more and more ISPs to do The Right Thing (tm).
  • first off.. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Sfing_ter ( 99478 ) on Thursday March 27, 2008 @11:38AM (#22882398) Homepage Journal
    First off they were getting BAAAAD publicity, and in this instance bad publicity is bad. When geeks start turning away from you and telling their friends not to use your service it begins to ahem... hurt. But I also think that perhaps the congress critters that are worried we are falling behind infrastructurally, may have hinted at dropping investigations and maybe even a little free gubmint money to help "upgrade" the public infrastructure. Indeed. And the other benefit is that .... AT&T is now the SPY ISP attempting to pick through traffic and block your downloads. We shall see, though, keep an eye on the broadband forums, we shall know soon enough.
  • by miller60 ( 554835 ) * on Thursday March 27, 2008 @11:38AM (#22882404) Homepage
    The new architecture from the Comcast/BitTorrent effort will be of great interest to content delivery networks (CDNs) who have been sorting out the best way that P2P can be used to assist in delivery of large files. Yesterday a CDN called Velocix announced a hybrid P2P streaming media service [datacenterknowledge.com] combining traditional caching with P2P delivery for live events. Velocix used to be CacheLogic, and worked with BitTorrent to develop the Cache Discovery Protocol, which lets ISPs cache the most popular torrent files, and then seed the files from servers within their network, reducing network traffic.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 27, 2008 @11:49AM (#22882556)
    If anyone doesn't get the whole picture, it might be Comcast. BitTorrent is based on peering and people seeding what they have. They can't exploit it unless they find a way to get their users to seed content for other users instead of coming from their ser... vers....

    Oh dear. I guess they do have the big picture. I can see it now: all Comcast users must keep a background application running while using their network (or have bandwidth severely throttled on a per MAC address instead of per packet shape) and will seed data to other users using your hard disk space and electricity instead of Comcast's central servers. Diabolical.

    *adjusts tin-foil hat*
  • by Mactrope ( 1256892 ) on Thursday March 27, 2008 @11:55AM (#22882634) Homepage Journal

    All that "more to it" is the problem and Comcast needs to be clear about network freedom. They can rig all sorts of schemes to make BitTorrent a traffic cop or to be some kind of traffic cop but none of that is appropriate. Comcast needs to do it's job, which is delivering bandwith. Everything else is bad for them and leads to real censorship.

    All of this nonsense about "unauthorized reproduction" and single file copies being a criminal offense represent a tremendous and wrong expansion of copyright laws. Copyright disputes should be a civil matter of who deserves money earned from works. Copyright protection of restricted files violates the limited time provision of the Constitutional establishment clause and the whole point of copyright is to insure a rich public domain. Censoring the press (aka the internet) in order to enforce this new and unwholesome copyright idea violates yet another portion of the US Constitution.

    Money that can't be earned in a free society is money that should not be earned. It would be better to live without mass produced entertainment than to live without a free press. Comcast and other ISPs should be at the forefront of the battle to preserve network freedom. As long as they insist on port blocks and traffic shaping, they are an enemy of freedom.

  • Re:Useless article (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Toasty16 ( 586358 ) on Thursday March 27, 2008 @11:58AM (#22882682) Homepage
    Greater regulation protecting the idea of net neutrality (that is, an open network without higher status for certain packets over others and without intentional blocking/delay of certain packets) could be part of the solution, in the same way that the dismantling of the Hollywood studio system in the 1960s paved the way for the cinematic creative explosion of the 1970s and ultimately the current blockbuster/tent pole business model.

    The Hollywood studios howled that their business was being destroyed by government interference, but without it we would never have a system that gave the directors more power over their films and Jaws, the first blockbuster, wouldn't have been released - the rest is history. Regulation can open up markets and increase creativity and profits, if it's done correctly.
  • As an added bonus, it further makes the issue harder for non-nerds to understand. Obligatory car analogy: You own a highway, and I own a motor vehicle company called "Cars". You deny all access to motor vehicles (due to "congestion"), and when people start complaining that you're denying cars, you let my Cars-brand vehicles on and say "That's not true, we fully allow Cars!" Yikes, even the car analogy was hard to explain. This should get interesting...
  • I like-a to say (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sxeraverx ( 962068 ) on Thursday March 27, 2008 @12:03PM (#22882750)
    In the words of Strongbad, "I like-a to say, 'Holy Crap!'"

    This certainly is unexpected.

    First off, Comcast is going to stop blocking or filtering or slowing down bittorrent traffic. That's bittorrent the protocol, not BitTorrent the company. From TFA, "We are working hard on a different approach that is protocol-agnostic during peak periods." Protocol. Not just torrents sanctioned by BitTorrent, Inc., but any torrents whatsoever.

    Second, what seems to be even better, is that Comcast is going to be increasing throughput to its customers. "Internet Capacity" as stated in the summary doesn't really make sense, unless it's referring to an IPv4-IPv6 changeover (-1: Pedantic), but if that means what I think it was supposed to mean, then it's great. However, is it an increase in last-mile throughput, or overall throughput? Or both? Because overall throughput would simply mean that if your neighbors are torrenting, your connection isn't slowed down, whereas last-mile throughput would only increase your peak speed when no one else is downloading anything. It seems like last-mile throughput is generally already maxed out with today's (yesterday's?) technology, namely, cable, at around 6Mbps, and the bottleneck is in the shared line.

    What I'm saying is that both should be improved. The shared line should be made so that everyone could attain peak throughput at all times, and the peak throughput should be about 10x-20x what it is now. That's right. The bottleneck should be in our own Cat5 cables or 802.11g networks, not imposed on us by our ISPs.

    Of course, ISPs won't willingly provide this (it costs precious $$$s), but for what we're paying ($50 a month, or $100 with TV, which amounts to $1,200 a year) it kinda seems like we deserve it. Telecom companies are required to put most of their profits back into their networks, but I don't think ISPs like Comcast, which operate over cable, are. Maybe they should be. Seems like it might help.

    Of course, most of that was just my incoherent rambling about one aspect of the state of technology in the US (don't get me started), so if you were expecting that to be meaningful, well, just forget what you read.
  • Re:Useless article (Score:3, Interesting)

    by InvisblePinkUnicorn ( 1126837 ) on Thursday March 27, 2008 @12:17PM (#22882904)
    "The Hollywood studios howled that their business was being destroyed by government interference, but without it we would never have a system that gave the directors more power over their films and Jaws, the first blockbuster, wouldn't have been released - the rest is history. Regulation can open up markets and increase creativity and profits, if it's done correctly."

    This is laughable. A director signs a contract with a studio, which agrees to exchange their property (money) for the director's talent. If the director doesn't like the terms of the agreement, he can refuse to sign the contract unless and until it is modified to his pleasing. If after signing the contract, that studio reneges on any part of the contract, the director can sue the studio for losses. If there is any gray area, such as the studio knowingly hiding something important from the director, a lawsuit will also clear that up. Where in this is a need for regulation to "give directors more power over their films"?

    Whether or not the great films of the 70s would have occurred is of no concern; the ends do not justify the means, because that would eliminate the basic principles by which one guides one's actions (these principles are explained in the documents of the founding fathers). Most likely those films still would have occurred, because in most cases their stories were floating around in their respective writers' heads well before the increased regulation was put in place; it would simply be a matter of finding a studio willing to agree to their terms. If none exists, then there is a demand without a supply, and the necessary supply is likely to spring up to fulfill that demand.

    No matter how hard they try, the legislature cannot regulate property rights out of existence. Anytime the government gets involved in the economy in this way, rights violations occur.
  • by nweaver ( 113078 ) on Thursday March 27, 2008 @12:45PM (#22883190) Homepage
    Notice the fine print: They aren't saying they are ending interference with P2P, they are saying they will stop treating BitTorrent differently then other heavy transfers.

    Which is a Good Thing, IMO, and I'm happy to have been proven wrong (I thought the P2P vs ISP war was going to heat up further.)

    However, a guess: it may be a consequence of improved traffic shaping: they are already starting to prioritize short connections ("Speed boost", which is being very heavily advertised in this area).

    You don't NEED to do RST injections if you can take the 1% heavy-users and traffic shape them down to a reasonable level when there's congestion. RST injection is very crude traffic management compared to the alternatives.

    It also allows the ISP to deal with the cost externalities indirectly, because now the 90% don't complain as much about bad performance when they want to surf the net.

    Finally, there is NOTHING in this that says they have to treat BitTorrent UPLOADS as special, just "not different from youtube".

    Comcast has repeatedly claimed that they are only killing "leeches/seeds", flows which upload vastly more than they download. If Comcast instead just shapes all large uploads, this will have effectively the same effect, without the visible political repercussions.

    Likewise, if ALL ISPs agressively shape uploads, this kills the P2P business model nearly as sure as anything else.

    Also, the lack of topological awareness does hurt BitTorrent, as well as the lack of cacheability. If the ISP is able to say that
    a) BitTorrent-type protocols can stay in my local loop and
    b) These flows are ones I CAN cache without being sued

    BitTorrent type flows become far less objectionable.
  • by mrogers ( 85392 ) on Thursday March 27, 2008 @12:57PM (#22883332)

    I'm surprised more ISPs (particularly foreign ones where bandwidth is pricey) haven't looked at ways to bias traffic to share internally.

    Perhaps part of the reason is that last mile bandwidth is scarcer than backbone bandwidth, so an ISP doesn't save as much by encouraging its customers to share with each other (backbone bandwidth saved, last mile bandwidth remains the same) as it does by discouraging them from sharing at all (backbone and last mile bandwidth saved)?

  • by Usquebaugh ( 230216 ) on Thursday March 27, 2008 @01:34PM (#22883802)
    'Good Laws?'

    Laws are neither good nor evil. It's a persons perspective that attaches good and evil. It is also worth bearing in mind how laws are created and how they are enforced. In short, the law is not there to protect you but to cage you.

    'User Privacy?'

    There is no such thing as privacy the sooner people understand this the sooner you can see what a childish concept it is.

    'You are in prison and don't know it.'

    The size of the cage is limited by the size of your mind. If you wish to be caged then you will be.

He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion

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