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Bell Wants to Dump Third-Party ISP's Entirely 227

phorm writes "Not only is Bell interfering with third-party traffic, but — according to CBC — they want third-party ISP and phone carriers off their network entirely. Bell is lobbying to have lease-conditions on their networks removed, stating that enough competition exists that they should not longer be required to lease infrastructure to third-parties. Perhaps throttling is just the beginning?"
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Bell Wants to Dump Third-Party ISP's Entirely

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  • by VickiM ( 920888 ) on Friday April 04, 2008 @04:51PM (#22967778)
    I'd be surprised if the Bells in the USA didn't start making this same argument here soon. After all, they have to compete with cable and satellite. Why would anyone need more choices than that?
  • by sarhjinian ( 94086 ) on Friday April 04, 2008 @05:13PM (#22968010)
    Here's the issue: Bell and the other Stentor consortium members were essentially granted a monopoly--and were given government support--to build the telecommunications network in Canada.

    When high-speed internet came to the forefront, Bell utterly failed to deliver a competitive product and was basically going to fall back a the "gentleman's agreement" with the cable- and phone companies that would have allowed a maximum amount of profit for the providers with a minimum amount of service on lines that we, the consumer, subsidized.

    The CRTC, deciding that the existing Bell/Stentor cartel had done little except gouge customers and that forcing leased lines had done wonders for the long-distance market, hit Bell with the same thing. The result is that Canada has one of the best broadband adoption rates in the world, despite a fairly unfriendly geography.

    Yes, they own the last mile, yes, and pay for it, but it's not like they didn't get a free ride from the CRTC and the Canadian public for years. Revoking this will result in a broadband market that looks like the Canadian wireless market: something like the "gentleman's agreement" mentioned above that keeps prices uncompetitively high.

    On that note, I personally think the CRTC hasn't gone far enough: they need to force the incumbent providers to open their wireless networks ("System Access fee" my ass) as well. The wireless market in this country is abysmal (as in "worse than the US, by a large margin") and the reason is that the incumbents maintain a cartel and buy or destroy competition.

    Heck, Canadian content rules have actually kept foriegn competition out of the market, which means that all Bell et al have had to compete with are small fish and bottom-feeders, which is what Bell wants to squash. I don't like T-Mobile or Verizon much, but I'd like to see them slap some respect into Bell, Telus and Rogers
  • by rpp3po ( 641313 ) on Friday April 04, 2008 @05:14PM (#22968014)

    It didn't work in the US...
    Of course it works! For example, there is a very healthy and competitive DSL resale market in Germany. It is protected by strong anti monopolistic government regulation and works out quite well. Needless to say that you need something else than a lobbyist infiltrated FCC to accomplish something like that.
  • by masdog ( 794316 ) <{moc.liamg} {ta} {godsam}> on Friday April 04, 2008 @05:18PM (#22968066)
    The question is - how do you build an open-access infrastructure without having to completely rip and replace all the last mile infrastructure in the United States and Canada? Not that I doubt its possible, but from a business standpoint, they like the current infrastructure. They make money no matter what - either by charging competitors to allow them access to the system or by charging customers. And they don't have to invest capital in updating the network (which everyone but Verizon seems to be avoiding). Now...I'd love to see more municipal networks that lease access to the telcos, but I don't see that happening.
  • VoIP,etc,etc, (Score:3, Interesting)

    by loconet ( 415875 ) on Friday April 04, 2008 @05:20PM (#22968090) Homepage
    I can't believe they could actually get away with this. There goes VoIP. This basically leaves us with Rogers and Bell to choose from. Period. Since Bell is still mainly a telephone company, I can't imagine Bell being too happy with customers switching to VoIP providers either (same with Rogers, they also offer a home phone service. ). If they can get away with throttling their internet provider competition or flat out lobby against their existence, what's to say they won't plain out choke out VoIP as well? Or Skype? Or "Youtube" - because they "compete" against their sat service. Where does this stop.

    We, citizens, need to light a fire up the government's ass to step in on this one.
  • by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) on Friday April 04, 2008 @05:24PM (#22968134) Journal
    If I was in government, I'd say yes to Bell, but with the caveat that they would now to have rent the right-of-ways they were effectively given all those years ago.

    The Telcos have forgotten that their networks, both in Canada and the US, were built, one way or the other, with the good graces and money of the taxpayers. Those right-of-ways were essentially a gift, with the understanding that they would be used to make communications near-universal.

    If the Telcos want to end that universality, then I think their automatic right to those right-of-ways should be removed. We can either go to an open bid, or we can do annual leases, the rates dependent on how nicely the Telcos behave. If they don't like it, they can go buy their own right-of-ways. Might be a bit problematic in major cities, but oh well, I don't think these bastards deserve an ounce of consideration any more.
  • by Powercube ( 1179611 ) on Friday April 04, 2008 @05:35PM (#22968256)
    In 1996 my family signed up as beta-testers for cable internet with Videotron. We were given a 5/5 connection, as beta-testers at the time it was free but once the service was mainline it was only 40 dollars a month. Not bad, keep in mind that Telus wasn't even offering DSL at this point... Shaw then buys out Videotron in Alberta and creates the "powersurfr" brand... prices go up and speeds fall to 2/768! Now, for a lovely 60 dollars a month I can get a 10/1 connection that has a cap... it used to be unlimited! Oh, did I mention that anything meaningful is throttled? I think the Canadian telecoms saw Australia's clusterfuck and wanted to be just like them. Okay, maybe not. Even though Telstra may be a constant thorn in the side of every Aussie, there are a lot of third party providers leasing their lines. The ACCC requires Telstra to lease the last-mile out and I doubt this will ever change.If Bell gets their way, the caps that Rogers are starting to put into place out East are going to look like amazing deals in mere hours. I can't tell you how much I hate to side with the CRTC but they'd be morons to let this happen (that said they've done everything they can to prop up CTV and ExpressVu).
  • by kwandar ( 733439 ) on Friday April 04, 2008 @06:11PM (#22968562)

    and the sooner they pay back the differential between the monopolistic prices they received to subsidize their phone infrastructure for 100 years, and competitive prices, the better.

    Those funds can be used to subsidize third party "last mile" networks, if Bell Canada is so suddenly keen on bringing competition to the market! And while we are at it, the cable carriers can do the same thing (albiet for a shorter time period). Lets see how they like it when there is more than a duopoly involved in the "last mile"

  • by Sentry21 ( 8183 ) on Friday April 04, 2008 @07:01PM (#22968888) Journal
    The impression I got from Bell's argument is something like this:

    What they said: The market was opened up for competition, but now there's enough competition so we shouldn't have to still hold their hands.

    What they mean: People are competing with us, despite the fact that we own the network and fuck around so badly with our wholesale clients that their problems never get solved in a reasonable amoutn of time, and instead of fixing our ludicrously broken processes or continuing to lose out to people who use our network better than we do, we want our monopoly back.

    Bell does have a point; a lot of companies (like one ISP I worked for for almost a week after my training ended) just keep reselling Bell's and Telus's services (despite getting dicked around all the time); they have essentially the same prices, plans, and service as Bell, but it takes longer to get anything done because you're one more step removed from the technicians.

    An ISP a friend worked for, however, took the other route. After selling Bell's service in Montreal, they hired my friend to do their ADSL rollout. They bought their own bandwidth, installed their own DSLAMs, and started moving customers over, and you know what? Paying for bandwidth directly was cheaper for them than leasing an essentially unlimited line from Bell.

    As a result, they started moving all of their customers over from Bell's per-customer charges to their third-party's per-megabit rates, and they're saving tons of money - enough to use to buy the new ADSL2+ equipment and move even more people over.

    The lesson is: Don't wait for Bell to stop being dicks; do things right yourself and it pays off.
  • by spun ( 1352 ) <loverevolutionary@@@yahoo...com> on Friday April 04, 2008 @07:56PM (#22969270) Journal
    Leave the country. Start your own. Go live in a cave or camp out in a national forest. I know some people who've opted out of the system and pay no taxes.

    How would I opt out of a lassez-faire free market system where all the real estate was owned?
  • by budgenator ( 254554 ) on Friday April 04, 2008 @08:21PM (#22969400) Journal
    the other point is in Canada and the US, the cable-co and the Tele-co's don't really compete that much, they seem to do a dance around the borders but don't really enter the vital territory. The third party ISP on the other hand do compete when Bell-CA started filtering, they chopped the legs out from under the 3rd parties by eliminating one of the few ways they could offer a substantially better service by actualy delivering what was promised in the ads.
  • by Pig Hogger ( 10379 ) <pig.hogger@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Friday April 04, 2008 @11:28PM (#22970386) Journal

    An ISP a friend worked for, however, took the other route. After selling Bell's service in Montreal, they hired my friend to do their ADSL rollout. They bought their own bandwidth, installed their own DSLAMs,
    Who is that (which ISP)???

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