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The Internet Education Your Rights Online

Virginia Becomes First State to Mandate Internet Safety Lessons 262

kaufmanmoore writes "The Commonwealth of Virginia has become the first state in the nation to require that students in all grade levels receive a form of internet safety lessons. The story is scant on details about the lessons, but describes one recently at a high school where the presenter showed a social-networking profile of a convicted sex offender posing as a 15 year-old girl. "
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Virginia Becomes First State to Mandate Internet Safety Lessons

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  • by gnick ( 1211984 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @07:11PM (#22994706) Homepage
    This is a fine idea - The internet is a treacherous place for children.

    But I'd rather see mandatory parenting.
  • kneejerk reaction (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nomadic ( 141991 ) <`nomadicworld' `at' `gmail.com'> on Monday April 07, 2008 @07:12PM (#22994720) Homepage
    from the nanny-state dept.

    I know the usual kneejerk reaction here to any government act taken in regards to children is to immediately stick one's fingers in one's ears and shout NANNY STATE until one is hoarse, but I really don't see anything especially forbidding about teaching some basic internet safety skills in school.
  • by Delwin ( 599872 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @07:15PM (#22994738)
    I see it as on par with mandatory traffic safety. ... both of which I'm all for.
  • Careful . . . (Score:3, Insightful)

    by StefanJ ( 88986 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @07:18PM (#22994766) Homepage Journal
    If teens stop running up huge credit card debt that there parents end up shouldering, the economy could become dangerously understimulated.
  • by joggle ( 594025 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @07:22PM (#22994804) Homepage Journal
    Even good parents may not be particularly Internet savvy. I think this is a great idea, especially if at least some of the lessons are given by other kids.

    I remember once helping out at a teacher conference in summer between 8th and 9th grades to help teach them (the teachers) how to use their new Macs (back around 1992).
  • by gnick ( 1211984 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @07:27PM (#22994854) Homepage
    I'm not "Won't someone think of the children?" apologist. But, some parents are internet-illiterate. So, what's wrong with one extra source to say "Hey - There are dangers out there. Be careful." So be it. I'd much rather see parents educate themselves, but I think that calling this a MS/**AA FUD tactic is a stretch...
  • by value_added ( 719364 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @07:29PM (#22994872)
    This is a fine idea - The internet is a treacherous place for children.

    The web, in general, may be an inappropriate venue for a young child, but it's hardly treacherous. In fact, I'd say that the risk of being targeted and hunted down in some manner is probably far less than your local playground. Which is to say the risk is small enough to put aside, and hardly something that merits the exaggerated press coverage, let alone the subject of a government mandated safety policy.

    Besides, if a child of any age is inclined to participate in "chat rooms", then they'll have plenty of supervisory company from law enforcement officials and TV celebrities.

    What would real Internet Safety Program look like? I'd start with something that includes unhiding file extensions on Windows systems to prevent the .exe nonsense that unlike the bogeyman, is a real and demonstrable threat.

    But I'd rather see mandatory parenting.

    Agreed. But they're both working, and too busy or too tired, trying to make a living. Guess the responsibility falls on the rest of us, huh?
  • by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @07:30PM (#22994878) Homepage Journal
    No, I don't want to see the state require what parents must teach their kids. Basic liberty and even biological diversity depend on parents exercising the maximum freedom possible in teaching their kids.

    There is a good case for holding parents responsible when their kids break laws their parents should be responsible for teaching them not to break.

    But schools should teach kinds the minimum that makes them safe. Kids whose parents already taught them will have it easy, and thereby get a reward, as well has see reinforced the stuff their parents teach them that most kids think is just their own parents' weird hangup, so they're more secure in following it.

    And kids whose parents disagree with what the school teaches them can also teach their kids to ignore what the school teaches them, which is probably the most important lesson.
  • by sexconker ( 1179573 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @07:34PM (#22994920)
    If the classes were a 1 hour session of someone saying "Hey kids, them thar internets can be dangerous. Don't go trusting people. Use common sense.", that would be fine.

    It's obviously going to a series of endless classes and fear mongering for the pedo fud machine.

    And you can't just ignore the fact that a lot of the "innocent" kids actually go out looking for trouble, either because they want att ention, hate their parents, or want to screw over some pedo.

    This is a move in the wrong direction.
    They need to simply ban minors from the entire internet.
  • by Actually, I do RTFA ( 1058596 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @07:37PM (#22994944)

    A) Realize that no matter how much you warn them of the "dangers" of the Internet, kids will still get on it

    B) Realize that many teenagers will rebel and still get on

    These are the same. And abstince-only education doesn't work with sex either. The point is to teach them safe habits.

    C) Realize that by teaching ways that predators will stalk them, they will think they are safe if they don't have those

    Well, to a large degree, that's true. If you never give anyone enough information to track you down, and never meet people off the internet, then you are pretty safe. If they find out your IP address they might be able to find out your neighborhood/block. But you even avoid that by not directly connecting with people.

    That does discount spyware, but that seems like a second class of issues (or second class by the school.).

    D) And lastly, realize that this opens up an avenue for propaganda by MS and the *AA to try to squash innovation by spreading FUD with how "pirated" things always has viruses and can lead to identity theft and being stalked!!!One!11!![sic]

    Sure it seems like a good idea, but remember the government gave us the DMCA and most likely doesn't know anything about what the 'Net is really like.

    Wow, way to combine three typical slashdot dislikes. First, it was the federal government who gave us the DMCA, not Virginia. Second, a lot of the DMCA makes sense (the safe-harbor provisions). I suppose you are talking about the generality of the term 'encrption scheme' so that it applies to ROT-13 and the law against having mechanisms to get around it? Well, even that seems more carelessly written than evil.

    And even if there was a lot of anti-piracy in the class, that 1) seems valid, as pirated software is more likely to have spyware than the non-pirated alternative (exception that proves the rule, P2P clients). 2) Even if it was used to curb piracy, how does that lead to a lack of innovation? I would understand software patents, but... 3) Even if that was a negative consequence, teaching kids good online habits seems to outweigh it. 4) Piracy *is* illegal, and the government *should* support upholding the law.

    Political rant: I don't understand how the Republicans/Libertarians can win elections with attitudes like yours. Of course, if you think government will always fail, and you are in charge of it, it will. My coworker claims that all architecture meetings take forever and end indecisively, but of course he has the power to cause that outcome.

  • by EmbeddedJanitor ( 597831 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @07:52PM (#22995060)
    Some time ago school was a place you went to to learn reading, writing and arithmetic. Slowly schools are getting more loaded with stuff that should be taught by parents/community: sex ed, health studies, morals and ethics and now safe browsing.

    Soon schools will also have to teach kids to dress: "Now remember class, you can't wear a striped shirt with plaid pants".

    It does seem that school is getting to be less about education and more about daycare (so that parents can go and have careers instead of raising kids).

  • by cashman73 ( 855518 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @07:55PM (#22995086) Journal
    Having done most of my education in Virginia (6th grade through PhD), I think I have some idea how this is going to go. First, the teachers will receive a bare minimum amount of instruction and education into this. There will be some cookie-cutter materials that the department of education will pass out, and they'll make teachers sit through some class. But the bulk of the instruction will consist of the teacher plopping an over-produced, over-dramatic, under-budgeted, cheesy videocassette into an old VCR that the school should have replaced last century with something more modern. The teachers will then do nothing more than to facilitate some type of bogus group discussion on this whole internet thing. And, of course, the students won't take it seriously at all. Because how can some grown up know more about the facebooks and myspaces out there -- "grown ups aren't supposed to use these things." So half the students will end up practically sleeping through it, and the other half will end up cracking wise-ass jokes at the teacher and getting smart. So the overall effectiveness of this will be essentially nil.

    Oh wait, I forgot! The most important benefit of this program is actually for the state legislators who passed this, because it makes them look like they're "thinking of the children" and trying to "protect the precious little snowflakes", so that some numbnut can get re-elected and steal more money from the state's coffers. Yes folks, this is how politics works in Virginia. Surprised? You shouldn't be.

  • Re:Fine but (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cashman73 ( 855518 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @08:00PM (#22995116) Journal
    How about a course in basic economics for our own President! Forget the students! I just wish Bush knew this shiat,... ;-)
  • wrong topic (Score:5, Insightful)

    by globaljustin ( 574257 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @08:08PM (#22995186) Journal
    Teaching kids about the internet is a great idea. Unfortunately, being aware of adults seeking to trick them into sexual situations is NOT an internet issue, it is a social issue that has basic rules that should apply to all types of communication and interaction, no matter what the channel or method of communication might be (if you don't know what the basic rules are that I speak of, then you are probably a child molester). Health class is the area to address issues of adult/child abuse.

    The real issues that teens and pre-teens need to be taught about in regards to the internet are:

    1. If you post text, a picture, or video on the internet it will be there indefinitely, and everyone will potentially have access to it. This works for pics of all types, from sexually inappropriate things to pics from a party where people are drinking to social networking 'interests' lists. We've all heard stories of people getting turned down from a job b/c of a facebook profile. Young people need to know about this early.

    2. Cyber bullying. For crying out loud, this is huge, and young people are the most vulnerable. Kids need to know that what gets put online has real consequences, and conversely, to not take rumors or gossip posted online seriously. We've all seen the story about the girl who killed herself b/c a neighbor (parent posing as a teen!) was saying hateful things about her.

    3. What the internet is...a computer network. No more, no less. It's a powerful communications tool, just like a car is a powerful transportation tool. If you don't understand and respect what it can do, you or someone else will pay for it.

    I know I kinda sound lame and schoolmarm-ish on that last one, but it's true...damn I'm getting old.

    The Virginia school classes are nothing more than ignorant reactionary bs meant to calm the irrational fears of soccer moms who watch too much Dateline.
  • by Shados ( 741919 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @08:37PM (#22995372)
    A) One trying to befriend another 15 yo girl.

    B) A sexual predator with a sexual predator fetish.
  • Bah... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by DaedalusHKX ( 660194 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @08:47PM (#22995452) Journal
    By the same principle, you're going to excuse "non automobile savvy parents" from being the failures they are because they were too incredibly stupid to teach their kids "don't hitch rides with strangers" (unless of course the kid aces the local IDPA pistol course and packs everywhere she goes, but that's impossible in modern countries, since only free men and women have access to any means of self defense at all. Modern countries discourage non institutionalized methods of self defense, and their denizens obey these discouragements.)
  • Re:wrong topic (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Belial6 ( 794905 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @08:48PM (#22995460)
    "Unfortunately, being aware of adults seeking to trick them into sexual situations is NOT an internet issue, it is a social issue"

    This is absolutely correct. Not only that, it is WAY better to have your kid learn the basic rules of safety when there is a thousand miles of wire between them and the person that is trying to take advantage of them. (sexually or not) The idea that kids should learn how to deal with these people in face to face situations FIRST is just not logical.

    I agree with #1 and #2, but 'Cyber Bullying' is exactly the same situation as sexual predators. Bullying is not a different situation because it is on a computer. Schools want to pretend like it is because it allows them to extend their authority and thus power outside of the schools. In a hundred years, schools have not addressed real life bullying that includes the same things that happens online as well as physical assaults. Your example of the girl who killed herself, helps make this clear. The girl never did know that the person who first pretended to like her, and then said very mean things was an adult. The fact that it WAS an adult is totally irrelevant. The fact is that boys have pretended to like girls, only to spurn them later has been happening for as long as we have recorded history of male female interactions. It is safe to assume that it was going on well before we started recording history. The same can be said of girls pretending to like boys and then spurning them, as well as adults to adults. The girl killed herself because she was infatuated and got dumped. No one would have blamed the telephone for this if it happened over the phone, or the school if a boy had done this to her there.

    I would want to see the schools dealing with real live bullying before they start even considering dipping their greedy hands into my home. Heck
  • by WaltBusterkeys ( 1156557 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @09:03PM (#22995556)
    You're right that a lot of this overlaps with the "use common sense" lessons from other contexts. But the thing is that kids really don't all have a ton of common sense. In fact, a lot of kids demonstrate shockingly little of it at times. Maybe they have it and choose not to use it, or maybe it's just not fully developed.

    It's one thing to say "don't meet strange people handing out candy." It's a good lesson and one that schools should mention since a lot of parents don't remember to. Heck, when I was in elementary school (pre-Internet) they taught us that kind of basic safety lesson.

    But not all 3rd graders will extrapolate from "don't take candy from strangers" to "don't expose yourself on a webcam for a 'girl' in another state." [reputation...erblog.com] I'm sure that any future-slashdotter would figure that one out without any help, but not all kids are above average.

    If this is really just adding lessons about Internet common-sense to lessons about real-world common-sense then it's probably on the net a good thing. Kids haven't developed their common sense yet and can easily get hurt by it.
  • by lgw ( 121541 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @09:09PM (#22995608) Journal

    That would fix the 31-yr-old posing as 15-yr-old problem.
    Is that a significant problem? Despite the myth of the Online Sexual Predator (oooh, scary), the evidence is that when a teen goes to meet an adult for sex, the teen knows it's an adult ahead of time, and usually meets that adult more than once.

    You may find the behavior unacceptable, but there's usually no trickery involved (beyond the level of trickery involved in any date).
  • by davetd02 ( 212006 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @09:17PM (#22995644)
    But is the school the best place for that? I agree that the school has all the kids under one roof, but parents need to step up too. It cuts both ways.
  • by zappepcs ( 820751 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @09:37PM (#22995754) Journal
    It's possibly slightly worse that imagined. Imagine the course being taught by someone that can't answer the questions that high schoolers can ask about the Internet and resources to be found there?

    How do I do that in Evolution? But adblockplus won't run under IE12, what do I do?

    In the end, it will end up a MS/**AA fud fest because F/OSS communities do NOT have the resources to dedicate training or funds for training to teachers in all those schools.

    Sure, you can put together a nice website for their use but can't mandate it as a teaching certificate quality thing. Teachers WILL have to be qualified by the state to teach the course and guess who will provide that training? Ubuntu?

    Keep dreaming....
  • by hedwards ( 940851 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @10:26PM (#22996074)

    A) Realize that no matter how much you warn them of the "dangers" of the Internet, kids will still get on it
    That's largely the point. The dangers of the internet could easily be solved completely if we eliminated it. Educating kids is a good compromise between completely banning them and what we've got presently.

    B) Realize that many teenagers will rebel and still get on
    Right, and that's why so many teens that have sex use condoms. I mean who would possibly rebel in a way which wasn't completely self destructive.

    Screwing the rest of the teens out of the resources to make better choices sure beats encouraging teenage rebellion.

    C) Realize that by teaching ways that predators will stalk them, they will think they are safe if they don't have those
    And this is superior to these kids having no idea at all about how predators stalk them? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense. You don't teach specific ways in all cases. It's not like the STI portion of sex ed, where you can say avoid sex with people likely to be carrying something, and if do have sex wrap it in any case.

    This is somewhat more complicated, and there is a responsibility to educate kids so that they can take care of themselves. There is no valid reason for suggesting that teens shouldn't be provided with the means to effectively protect themselves. Parenting can only go so far, having an additional level of protection isn't some big, bad, scary danger.

    D) And lastly, realize that this opens up an avenue for propaganda by MS and the *AA to try to squash innovation by spreading FUD with how "pirated" things always has viruses and can lead to identity theft and being stalked!!!One!11!!
    That sure is a nice strawman you have there, please give my regards to the tin man.

    The only downside to this is going to be cost. And if they can also include other online safety things like virus, spyware and phishing protection, it's a really good idea.
  • straw man (Score:3, Insightful)

    by globaljustin ( 574257 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @10:41PM (#22996122) Journal

    The idea that kids should learn how to deal with these people in face to face situations FIRST is just not logical.

    I never said that, or made any statements that insinuate it either. Your logical fallacy is called the straw man. [wikipedia.org]

    You construct a widely exaggerated statement (kids should learn how to deal with inappropriate adults face to face first vs. over the net), then attribute it to me, then unleash an argument against it that sounds good but is actually completely meaningless, b/c I never said anything like that.

    I said:

    Health class is the area to address issues of adult/child abuse.

    And that's exactly why your argument is a straw man. My point was that ALL age-inappropriate issues are essentially the same, the difference is the method of communication, therefore, internet issues should be addressed in the same arena as other issues: health class. I'm actually advocating the opposite of what you falsely attribute me of advocating.

    I know we're not supposed to feed the trolls, but it feels good to just let loose with a torrent of simple, provable logic every now and again.

    as to your point about cyber bullying...

    Bullying is not a different situation because it is on a computer.

    that holds a little more water, but I still think it's different. Adult/child sexual abuse is different than bullying b/c bullying is done between peers (by definition, if it was not between peers, then it would just be assault or abuse). It might be good to include a lesson on bullying in health class that covers the topic as you suggest, incorporating all forms of bullying. I'd buy that idea.

    thanks for your comment
  • by EvolutionsPeak ( 913411 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @10:53PM (#22996170)
    Ever consider that the reason kids have no common sense is because they are spoon fed everything they should or shouldn't do? It seems like we do everything we can to prevent young people from actually using their brains to make a decision, and then we're upset that they can't think on their own and use common sense.
  • by jma05 ( 897351 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @11:06PM (#22996220)
    Huh? You are phrasing it as a "don't do drugs" message. Rather, it is a "how to cross the street safely" lesson.

    I don't see how this is possibly a bad thing as long as they are only communicating established facts. And a spyware course (and other Internet common sense education) is much more relevant today than a baking course in today's world, in my opinion.

    I am not sure why this is tagged "thinkofthechildren". While technically a correct tag, it is used on Slashdot to refer to unreasonable legislations that involve holy cow arguments involving children. That is not the case here.
  • by antic ( 29198 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @11:16PM (#22996280)
    "But I'd rather see mandatory parenting."

    Sure (and I agree that responsibility lies with parents), but the kids taking these lessons will be parents eventually. You could mandate safety lessons for adults also, but it's not all that convenient once they've left the structured environment (fixed times and lesson plans) of a school.
  • by cain ( 14472 ) on Monday April 07, 2008 @11:55PM (#22996506) Journal
    There was no magical time in the past when things were morally fine and upstanding. Let that idea go - it's a bad one.
  • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2008 @12:06AM (#22996592)
    Of course not. Common sense is the result of screwing up and managing to survive it. Kids haven't had a chance yet. Most adults today also haven't had the chance, which is why they also often demonstrate remarkably little common sense.
  • Re:straw man (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Belial6 ( 794905 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2008 @12:36AM (#22996766)

    The idea that kids should learn how to deal with these people in face to face situations FIRST is just not logical.
    I never said that, or made any statements that insinuate it either. Your logical fallacy is called the straw man.
    I was not attributing that to you. I'm sorry if it sounded that way. You are correct that if I had attributed it to you, it would have been a strawman argument. The statement was concerning people who think that the internet is somehow more dangerous than real life.

    As for the bullying... The schools clearly have no interest in stopping bullying. It would be great if they did, but a hundred years of inaction shows that they don't. So, you have to ask why they want to do something about 'cyber' bullying when they have done nothing about assaults and abuse physically in front of them. The answer is clear. They want to take over being in charge of your kids when they are at home also. Assault and battery between peers does not make it something other than assault and battery. You and I are presumably peers, but if you punch me in the face, it is still assault and battery.

    The problem with having a health class that covers assaults is that the people committing them know full well what they are doing. No one is confused about it. They also know full well that the school doesn't give a crap if they do it as long as the teachers and administration don't have to deal with it. On the bullying, I think we may just have to only half agree.
  • by penix1 ( 722987 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2008 @02:44AM (#22997348) Homepage
    I don't think so considering how the majority of sexual child abuse cases are perpetrated by someone the child knows closely. Hell, most are done by someone in the same family. The sensational stories you hear about like the DateLine stings are the exception. Most of the pedo busts they do involve those trading media around which is also illegal to possess.
  • by ubernostrum ( 219442 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2008 @03:02AM (#22997424) Homepage

    Some time ago school was a place you went to to learn reading, writing and arithmetic. Slowly schools are getting more loaded with stuff that should be taught by parents/community: sex ed, health studies, morals and ethics and now safe browsing.

    You mean that it's not like the golden days of the 1950s when the precious little snowflakes were taught how to cook meals for themselves and balance their checkbooks in their home economics classes?

  • Re:wrong topic (Score:3, Insightful)

    by pjt33 ( 739471 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2008 @06:03AM (#22998224)
    Correction: they introduced Zero Tolerance policies so that a kid who is being bullied gets suspended along with the bully whether he defends himself or not.
  • by db32 ( 862117 ) on Tuesday April 08, 2008 @09:58AM (#22999664) Journal
    The parents are most likely in the same boat of people that are getting their computers turned into zombies, having their personal information stolen, or other such problems that run rampant in the world these days.

    Shit, it should be mandatory that the parents show up with their kids! If this was some kind of morality thing pushing one view over others it would be one thing. MANY people simply are not aware of the dangers out there. Seriously, go talk to your average joe types, many of them believe you can't do many of these things, or that you can't get away with it because the cops will swoop in and get you. They simply do not understand the risk.

    Would you ask a blind man to teach a driving school?

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