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Dell Will Offer XP Past Cutoff Date 351

Posted by Soulskill
from the dude-you're-getting-a-more-functional-os dept.
Dionysius, God of Wine and Leaf, brings news that Dell will be offering Windows XP pre-installed on their computers past the June 30 cut-off date. Computers purchased with Vista Business or Vista Ultimate past June 30 will come with a copy of XP Pro. Dell plans to simply install that copy upon request to save users a step. Perhaps this will help Microsoft officials make up their minds about another extension.
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Dell Will Offer XP Past Cutoff Date

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  • Ubuntu Instead? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by conner_bw (120497) on Friday April 25, 2008 @02:43PM (#23201084) Homepage Journal
    If Dell is in the business of installing unsupported operating systems, why not instead redirect the customers to their Ubuntu offerings [dell.com] instead?

    Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?
    • Re:Ubuntu Instead? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by iamhigh (1252742) * on Friday April 25, 2008 @02:46PM (#23201124)

      Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?
      Why, because that is what the customer wants? We have already moved our purchasing to used retailers in expectance of this day. We have no plans on installing Vista, and as much as I would love it, Linux is not a viable option at this time.

      I applaude this decision and will do my best to support them if they continue selling XP.
      • Re:Ubuntu Instead? (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 25, 2008 @03:35PM (#23201798)

        Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?
        Why, because that is what the customer wants? We have already moved our purchasing to used retailers in expectance of this day. We have no plans on installing Vista, and as much as I would love it, Linux is not a viable option at this time.

        I applaude this decision and will do my best to support them if they continue selling XP.
        Microsoft has stated XP will be technically supported until 2014.
        • Re:Ubuntu Instead? (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Vectronic (1221470) on Friday April 25, 2008 @04:41PM (#23202650)
          "extended support phase to Windows XP will take effect in May 2009. In Microsoft parlance, extended support is the period when all support is fee-based and non-security hotfixes are produced only for corporate customers. Until April of 2009, Windows XP Home and Media Center will remain in what is called mainstream support, which offers some no-charge support and free updates that donâ(TM)t deal with security issues."

          I'd imagine that pretty soon (if not already) there will be dedicated websites to supporting XP (including custom patches to any security issues)... and if Microsoft is smart, they will allow them to do this... I dont think it would really impede on their business (much) because most business would probably contimplate "upgrading" to Windows 7 or at least Vista by 2009... and if anything, the XP "Community" would still be promoting Windows potentially saving Microsoft the loss of some customers to Linux and/or Mac who might be willing to upgrade (stick with) Windows later on... Windows 8, or Win7 SP2...or whatever...
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by drinkypoo (153816)

            Just keep in mind that the community has made service packs and shit for Windows 98 and it's all garbage, I tried both the usual sesp21 and the sesp30b and both made my system horribly unreliable.

            If you have really reached the point where you are stuck with XP because Vista won't do the job, and you're not currently working on a project to switch your business from Windows to Linux or similar, then you are a sucker. Because Microsoft will just keep fucking you over.

        • "Microsoft has stated XP will be technically supported until 2014."

          I've always thought that somewhat misses the point.

          The fact is, solely to make more money, Microsoft has claimed that its earlier product will die. The death is completely independent of customer demand.

          Who would want to partner with such a company? Because that's what you are doing when you buy an operating system, you are partnering with the OS supplier. You are betting that the supplier will be a true partner and will care about your needs, and not choose to be adversarial.

          Even though Vista is just Windows XP with new features, Microsoft expects to be paid as though it is an entirely new product, with no relevance to the earlier version.

          It seems to me that Microsoft is the Chief of Grief, software's Dr. Death. Other deaths:

          Declared dead: FoxPro database programming language

          Dead soon: PlaysForSure [slashdot.org] was corporate-speak for "we will kill it and destroy access to your music any time we want". Apparently the reason Microsoft executives wanted to reassure buyers by saying "Plays for Sure" is that they knew it was not sure.

          This is connected with the rise of 3-year-old thinking: "I can do anything I want. You have no power."

          The U.S. government is worse: "We can take your money and give it to weapons and war suppliers. You have no power. All laws we don't like are invalid."
      • Re:Ubuntu Instead? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by illumin8 (148082) on Friday April 25, 2008 @04:55PM (#23202768) Journal

        I applaude this decision and will do my best to support them if they continue selling XP.
        This is more of a win for Microsoft than it is for Dell:

        1. Microsoft gets to "sell" a Vista license with all of these new computers.
        2. Dell gets a bundled Windows XP "downgrade" license and just installs XP on the computer instead of Vista.
        3. Microsoft gets to brag about how many millions of people have bought Vista and how successful it is.
        4. Profit?

        This is all a shell game for Microsoft. They can't polish the turd that is Vista so they'll just continue to sell XP but make it look like Vista on the books, so that Wall Street is none the wiser.

        And before you think I'm an anti-Microsoft, I just bought a copy of Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit so I can run a few games in DX10. It runs slower and crashes more often (even with nothing installed I get regular MS error reports) than XP on the same hardware. Right now I find I'd rather boot back into XP SP2 and run most of my games, even though I can only use 3.2GB of memory, than reboot into Vista and endure slower framerates and random shit popping up and crashing all the time...
        • Re:Ubuntu Instead? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by KillerBob (217953) on Friday April 25, 2008 @08:59PM (#23204546)
          It's a benefit for Dell, because it means that Dell is still selling XP-based computers to consumers who want it. When word gets out that Dell are the only ones selling computers with XP on them, and that not only is it pre-installed, it's going to be supported by phone-in tech. support....

          You're right. MS gets to book it as a Vista sale. Because technically, it *is* a Vista sale. But the end user isn't going to care that they have actually bought a copy of Vista, they're going to care that their nice, shiny, brand new computer still has XP on it. It's going to mean more sales for Dell.
    • Re:Ubuntu Instead? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by yincrash (854885) on Friday April 25, 2008 @02:46PM (#23201132)
      There is no XP community support?
    • Re:Ubuntu Instead? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by MightyMartian (840721) on Friday April 25, 2008 @02:47PM (#23201166) Journal
      It's what they're customers want. I can't roll out Ubuntu where I am because it doesn't support Outlook, at least in a fashion that I would consider stable. It's that simple. I don't want Vista when I get new machines, I want the operating system that I know is proven reliable.

      Step out of your Linux bubble for a second and accept that XP is still in demand by a lot of businesses.
      • I want the operating system that I know is proven reliable.
        So you aren't looking to keep using XP then, eh?

        (sorry, I couldn't help it...)

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by gx5000 (863863)
      LOL, irresponsible ? support ? who still needs Xp support ?!
      Here in the Gov 'o' Canada we are just starting to migrate to XP.
      A lot of US Defense is just migrating to XP as well...
      We have our own Support staff, and any user that chooses XP over
      "supported" Vista obviously has a support route or has abandoned
      the parachute knowingly. Remember that this is "By request".

      PS: I'll have the porterhouse
      • by LWATCDR (28044)
        Everybody needs support for XP that is still using it.
        Support in this case doesn't mean "How do I find the Internet?".
        The support he is talking about is for things like drivers, and security patches. So yea everybody does need support.
        Of course Microsoft isn't cutting off security updates for XP anytime soon.
      • A lot of US Defense is just migrating to XP as well...
        Not true at all. The US DoD has been using XP for ages and has even recently released the official drop-dead date, when we have to all switch to Vista.
    • Re:Ubuntu Instead? (Score:5, Informative)

      by electrosoccertux (874415) on Friday April 25, 2008 @02:52PM (#23201242)

      At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?
      ?
      XP has support into 2014. Wiki. [wikipedia.org]
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by andy9701 (112808)

      Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?


      It's my understanding that the only thing changing as of June 30 is that Microsoft is going to stop selling XP. XP will be supported until something like 2014, IIRC.
    • by homer_ca (144738)
      June 30th this year is the cutoff date for new OEM sales, not the EOL of support for Windows XP. That'll be somewhere around 2012.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by WinPimp2K (301497)
      "why not instead redirect the customers to their Ubuntu offerings instead?"

      Maybe because they are going with XP Pro? The OS that Dell's business customers are already using and still demanding? The OS that Dell obediently stopped offering back when MSFTs product rollout originally demanded that Vista go on all new machines more than a year ago. The OS that Dell started putting back on new machines as soon as it was discovered that Vista BROKE "mission critical" business applications left and right.

      Maybe Ubu
    • There is simply no reason for Dell to be offering XP other than their customers are demanding it. I'm sure Dell will include some sort of disclaimer regarding the product being un-supported.

      They could redirect customers to the Ubuntu offerings but if customers are asking for XP then it's a no-brainer for Dell.
    • by Knuckles (8964)
      It's not after the cut-off date for security fixes, it's after the cut-off date MS has set for sales of XP. Just a few days ago SP3 was released, and security updates will be created for a long time still.
    • by LWATCDR (28044)
      1. The cut off date is for sales from large OEMs for Desktops systems. XP will still be available for small notebooks like the EEE and from small PC builders.
      2. The cut off date isn't for support.
      3. Microsoft says that it's customers don't want XP and are all happy with Vista... Well maybe this will be a nice wakeup call.
    • by niceone (992278) *
      Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible.

      This isn't really dell being irresponsible - this is sanctioned by Microsoft. Both the Vista Ultimate and Business licenses give you the right to 'downgrade' to XP Pro. Dell are just helping their customers out with the mechanics of doing the downgrade.
    • by _KiTA_ (241027)

      If Dell is in the business of installing unsupported operating systems, why not instead redirect the customers to their Ubuntu offerings [dell.com] instead?

      Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?

      Because no one wants Ubuntu, they want XP.

      Sorry to be so blunt, but there it is. Dell sells Ubuntu, but it is still a niche, and suggesting that Dell just drop XP altogether to try and force people to use Ubuntu for... no good reason makes little sense.

      In other news, I wonder if this will force Microsoft to continue to support WinXP. It's pretty well known that Dell has a lot of pull with Redmond -- it's said that their objections about the "No XP for YOU!" nonsense that Microsoft tried when Vista came

    • Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?

      What support are they going to need? It's not like MS is going to turn off the "update" link altogether. Even though *official* support is supposed to be long gone, I believe they still post major bug or vulnerability fixes for Windows 2000.

      XP, like 2000 is pretty much "stable" so unless
    • by Idbar (1034346)

      If Dell is in the business of installing unsupported operating systems, why not instead redirect the customers to their Ubuntu offerings instead?
      Perhaps, because what people want is not to change their OS. So why would you send them to, yet another OS, when they can keep working with the one they are used to?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by kabocox (199019)
      Selling a computer with XP past the Microsoft cutoff date is pretty irresponsible. At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support? Is it really Dell's place to oversee microsoft's business decisions?

      Considering all the business and home people that would like XP Professional rather than Ubuntu. I'd say this a great business decision for Dell.
    • At least Ubuntu has community support, whereas XP will have no support?

      Wow. Community support. I'm sure that has tons of SLAs associated with it. As long as I've got the cash, Microsoft is gonna support XP, even if I have to pay for the calls/issues.

  • Submitter diversity (Score:5, Informative)

    by peipas (809350) on Friday April 25, 2008 @02:45PM (#23201108)
    I couldn't help but notice that the submitter, a commercial entity, currently has four articles on the front page.
    • by ShaunC (203807) on Friday April 25, 2008 @02:51PM (#23201232) Homepage
      Don't worry, it's just Roland, he forgot he was logged in under his boyfriend's account.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Xenographic (557057)
      They seem to be submitting a lot, but in support of their consultancy business, instead of their blog (Roland) or the EFF (the IP guy). I notice that they have a message on there for Slashdot users if you visit the site that says they're regular readers or something.

      I dunno, a few of their stories were pretty well linked, so I don't personally mind too much if it gets us better articles (and not Roland-style spam, where all submissions go to his blog, or Beatles keyword stuffing).
    • I couldn't help but notice that the submitter, a commercial entity, currently has four articles on the front page.
      I first noticed it yesterday. I've submitted several ask slashdots and articles and was shot down each and every time and yet a web consultancy gets four articles up? Hmmmmmmmmm. Dionysus, God of Marketing.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by dkleinsc (563838)
      I'm suspecting that they've put together a bunch of sock puppet accounts voting things to the top of the Firehose, and that the "editors" aren't looking carefully enough at what they're doing to notice.
  • by filesiteguy (695431) <kai@perfectreign.com> on Friday April 25, 2008 @02:58PM (#23201316) Homepage
    I've been a Vista user for over a year now, and am somewhat satisfied with the OS. Compared to XP it is worlds above in both stability and usability. It almost even comes close to KDE for a decent UI.

    What are the reasons people want to stay with XP?? As it is, I manage 1200 users, and we are happily switching all to Vista (as well as SLED) as we roll out new machines. (This is approximately 400/year.)
    • Compared to XP it is worlds above in both stability and usability

      if usability equates to be pestered to all hell by its annoying account permissions, then yes, it is better than XP. Vista is slow due to bloat and people are generally impatient.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      I have 2 Vista laptops (1 from Dell, 1 from Lenovo; bought with Vista B & HP installed).
      Both laptops suffer from the constant (Not Responding) bug.

      Simply put you will be working away and suddenly your App (any App) will go into (Not Responding) for 5-30 seconds. Then it mysteriously comes out of that state and you can do work again ... until the next time.

      Don't give me that "drivers" BS. The drivers are up to date.

      The Green Bar of Death is another wonder to behold.

      Finally, after having the V-Bus lapto
      • Interesting - don't know if any of my systems have encountered this.

        Wait - I did yesterday on my openSUSE laptop running Firefox 3b2 (along with KNode, KMail, Amarok, and VMWare with XP running O2k3, AutoCAD 2005, and Visio).

        Oops - that's not vista.

    • "as we roll out new machines. "

      That's why. Why should we purchase new behemoth machines just to run an OS? Compared to XP, vista is a sloth.
    • by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) on Friday April 25, 2008 @03:50PM (#23202012)

      What are the reasons people want to stay with XP?

      Performance is a big reason. You basically need new hardware to run it. Even then it is slower than XP on the same hardware. Consistency is another reason. Admins don't really want to support more OS's than they have to, and they don't have the budget to upgrade all of them, so XP on all makes sense. Then there are issues getting old hardware peripherals to work with it. There are issues with older applications that won't run or won't run stably on Vista. Some you can upgrade (another cost) others you cannot so it is a hard block. Finally, there are migration costs and user training (many of whom obstinately don't want Vista for whatever reason).

      From an enterprise perspective, looking at a Vista migration means considering alternatives, like Linux which is a real possibility in many ways and a long term cost saver. A lot of companies are just holding off and waiting for it to stabilize and most of the problems I listed to go away. Others see holding off as a necessary step now, since Vista includes even more data and protocol lock-ins that will make migrating away from it even more expensive than migrating away from WinXP. I have nothing against Vista and recognize some of the real improvements, but I would not recommend a large scale migration to anyone for a while yet. A year ago I said, at least wait a year and see how it goes. It's been a year, and I'd still wait a while.

  • Activation? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Mistshadow2k4 (748958) on Friday April 25, 2008 @03:05PM (#23201412) Journal
    One of the things I'm wondering about is whether a freshly-installed XP can be activated after the cut-off date.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by lazy-ninja (1061312)
      The cut off date is for OEM Sales ONLY. The OS is still live and active. Mainstream support through 2009 and extended/limited support through 2014.
  • Computers purchased with Vista Business or Vista Ultimate past June 30 will come with a copy of XP Pro.

    Sigh. This will probably make MS happy as it will boost the Vista sales stats - especially since the two Vista "versions" listed are the most expensive.

    • by Idbar (1034346)
      After all, you need to buy one of the most expensive OSs so they can give you another license for free. You don't think they just give licenses away to everyone, right? So you buy an expensive license for an OS, and they "give" you one for free. Although, even if you can use it on a different system, some part of the contract probably says you're only allowed to install it in one system.

      Still, would you get two licenses for the price of one? and is MS enforcing this?
    • Ubuntu Dells too (Score:3, Interesting)

      by El_Oscuro (1022477)
      I just got a Dell Ubuntu laptop. Along with the expected Ubuntu CD was a DVD for Vista Home premium: "Already installed on your computer". Yeah, right. I wonder if it counts as a Vista sell. Anyway, does anyone need a Dell Vista Home Premium DVD? For sale on ebay *cheap*
  • XP MCE Anyone (Score:4, Informative)

    by Nom du Keyboard (633989) on Friday April 25, 2008 @03:24PM (#23201640)
    For the home user XP MCE is a far better deal cost-wise. It gives the most important feature of multi-processor support, while dropping the ability to join an Active Directory domain. A very fair trade-off for the home user.

    So is Dell offering MCE as well still?

  • I get tickled by people saying, "I'm running Vista and it's just fine." As if millions of people are all hallucinating issues. People do the same with Linux. "My distro found all my hardware!" Congrats! Vista has enough issues that Microsoft itself is considering extending the life cycle. No, they're not doing this to piss you off. They're doing it because customers are pissed. If they do extend it, it will be a new course for Microsoft, actually doing something customer-centric. It's not wonder they're ago
  • by brewstate (1018558) on Friday April 25, 2008 @03:31PM (#23201738)
    Does anyone remember Windows ME? Did anyone "upgrade" to it. Vista seems mildly familiar with a whole lot more momentum. The major exception is MS realized it was a mistake and admitted it was a stop-gap between windows XP and 98.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Mistshadow2k4 (748958)
      I don't know, but I remember "downgrading" my first PC from ME to 98. Even as crash-prone as 98 was, it was still a damn sight better than ME, which was highly crash-prone and very prone to freezing up.
  • by Russ Nelson (33911) <slashdot@russnelson.com> on Friday April 25, 2008 @03:41PM (#23201870) Homepage
    I hope that Microsoft realizes that if they don't sell Windows XP, we'll steal it. And by "steal" I mean make fair use of a product not being sold. Copyright exists to protect commerce, not property rights. If someone refuses to sell a copyrighted work, a defense against copyright infringent is to point out that you're making non-commercial use of a work that is not being sold.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by bipbop (1144919)
      I'm not a lawyer, so I won't try to refute this, but I will ask for more information. Can you provide a reference to case law or US code on the subject? If not, can you provide any other form of cite for the defense you outline? I'm sympathetic but skeptical.
  • by dlim (928138) on Friday April 25, 2008 @06:25PM (#23203530) Journal
    I'd say actions like this from vendors like Dell will simplify the issue for Microsoft. Dell can't sell XP. Dell sells Vista and gives away XP. Microsoft tallies another Vista sale, Dell sells a new computer, and the buyer gets XP. If the hardware vendors will pick up the slack, Microsoft has no reason to extend sales of XP.
  • by brainee28 (772585) on Friday April 25, 2008 @06:38PM (#23203632)
    I read about this on Dell's website, and if you read the fine print, Dell will install the image for you, but if you need to reinstall from the XP disk they provide you, they won't support what you installed, only what they installed. Only the pre-installed image at the factory can be supported. However they will support Vista fully if you upgrade. This is a sneaky way of making XP fans happy, but giving them a time limit.
  • by Barny (103770) <bakadamage-slashdot@yahoo.com> on Friday April 25, 2008 @07:20PM (#23203974) Homepage Journal
    For those wondering :)

    If you buy Vista Business or Ultimate, you have the option to upgrade to XP Pro or Windows 2000 instead, this only requires you to have a single license install media for the older OS but it doesn't have to be unique.

    So dell simply brought a 1 user mass license for XP and give it out with that nifty "pre activated" thing, to everyone who gets vista business.

    This process was explained to me by a MS OEM sales rep, sounds stupid imho, why not just keep selling XP?

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