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The Internet Networking The Almighty Buck

Comcast Floats a 250GB Monthly Bandwidth Limit 578

techmuse writes "Comcast is considering the imposition of bandwidth caps and reductions in network bandwidth to customers who, while paying for the use of a certain amount of bandwidth, dare to actually use it! Gizmodo has more on the subject." Reader Acererak points out that it would take some pretty heavy usage (by current standards) to hit the cap described. Bear in mind, too, that these reports are based on the word of an unnamed "insider," rather than an officially announced policy.
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Comcast Floats a 250GB Monthly Bandwidth Limit

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  • Lawsuit (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lord Apathy ( 584315 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:35AM (#23337292)

    God damn it people need to learn if you say unlimited on the ad it means fucking unlimited. If you don't want people using it you need to say so.

    It's time people got together and sued these fuckers that do this crap.

  • An improvement (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Metasquares ( 555685 ) <{moc.derauqsatem} {ta} {todhsals}> on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:38AM (#23337350) Homepage

    This is actually an improvement over their current model of "We have a cap, but we won't tell you what it is".

    Like a previous poster said, though, if they promise unlimited, they have to deliver unlimited. They should indeed be sued for not doing so.

  • Bad news (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:41AM (#23337394)
    They'll start with 250GB because everyone will go, ok no big deal. Then they'll start reducing it. Once they implement this people will get screwed. Look at their track record.
  • A high cap, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by snarfies ( 115214 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:43AM (#23337426) Homepage
    250gb a month would be over 8gb a day, assuming a 31-day month (the worst-case scenario). I have no problem with that. I've never even come CLOSE to downloading that much.

    But is this just the FIRST cap? Will the cap be lowered to 200gb six month from now? Will it be jimmied down to 150gb a year from now, with the option to pay extra for a $200gb cap? Is this, in short, the opening shot to tiered pricing?

    I can't decide whether to terminate service out of principle over this move or not. It isn't like I have many options - for me its Comcast or DSL for the same price but half the speed. Verizon won't sell me FIOS no matter how much I want to hand them my money - they haven't even applied for a franchise in Philadelphia last I checked.
  • Heavy usage? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Bert64 ( 520050 ) <bert AT slashdot DOT firenzee DOT com> on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:43AM (#23337428) Homepage
    250GB equates to just over 800kbit/sec over a month, or well under 1mbit.
    Now i wouldn't have an issue if that's how the service was sold (800kb service, burstable to 10mb or whatever)... But ISP marketing tries to make the service out to be something it's not. And then have the nerve to complain when people try to actually use what they thought they were buying.
  • by DesScorp ( 410532 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:46AM (#23337484) Journal
    That limit would be generous for the vast majority of their users, and you can always get another provider. Keep in mind that the people they're targeting with this are using up more bandwidth than some higher cost business accounts. If you want unlimited bandwidth per month, then buy a more expensive plan.
  • by techmuse ( 160085 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:47AM (#23337504)
    One of the scary things about this is that it will make new, high bandwidth, applications of the Internet infeasible. If you had been asked what was a reasonable amount of data to download 3 or 4 years ago, you would probably give a much lower value than you do today. Why? You would not have been using many of the services that you do now, because they simply did not exist. Modern services are much more video and audio intensive. Ads take much more bandwidth than they used to. We are seeing a transition of services traditionally provided by the cable companies, such as streaming of television programs, moving to the Internet. Calls on Skype now support high quality video. Software distributed over the Internet (for example, the latest version of your favorite Linux distribution) can easily run close to a gigabyte per instance. You can imagine that new applications will follow soon that we haven't imagined yet. Comcast is attempting to do the following:

    1) Eliminate unprofitable users. These are users who do more than just check their e-mail and surf the web. These are the ones who actually *use* their connections Rather than investing in infrastructure, Comcast simply wants to get rid of anyone that it doesn't make money on.

    2) Eliminate competition with its own cable offerings. If you can watch the latest news from CNN or TV shows from NBC streamed *from* CNN or NBC, then you don't need to pay $60 / month for cable TV. This is a major threat to Comcast, and they are trying to make it infeasible.

    3) Gain consumer acceptance of limits, then lower them later. The cable companies have a history of raising prices 5-10% per year (much greater than inflation). They can do to this because they have monopoly power in many markets. You can expect Comcast to behave in a similar manner with data. Want to fight back? Do you have many alternative providers? If not, you are stuck.
  • by MightyYar ( 622222 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:47AM (#23337514)
    I don't mind a cap, so long as you can buy more once you hit it for a reasonable price.

    But in this case (which is not official, BTW), it sounds like they are going to change $15 for an extra 10GB! That is far too high. I mean, assuming you pay $50/month, the first 250GB are only $0.20 each... and it goes up to $1.50??? That's pretty peculiar. It also doesn't seem to reflect the cost of bandwidth. Giganews charges $14 for 25GB, for instance.

    I fear that we will quickly approach the dreaded cell-phone bill in complexity here.
  • by FlyingCheese ( 883571 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:51AM (#23337562)
    As much as people hate Comcast, dialup isn't really an option these days. I just LOVE to wait 10 minutes for a page to load or a day or so to watch a 5 minute video.
  • Re:Lawsuit (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Qzukk ( 229616 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:52AM (#23337588) Journal
    Well, something like this would mean they're not saying "unlimited" anymore.

    In fact, having a published cap would mean that customers would know the information they need to make a decision on their ISP in advance, rather than discovering some secret shadowy cap after they've hit it and called tech support 10 times about their problems before finding someone willing (or knowledgeable enough) to admit that such a cap exists, and maybe the approximate value of said cap.

    As for existing customers, they'll just send out a notice saying they are changing your contract and you have 30 days to cancel otherwise you agree to the new cap.
  • I'm outraged (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kohath ( 38547 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:56AM (#23337638)
    How dare Comcast "consider" things?
  • by Grokmoo ( 1180039 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:57AM (#23337644)

    where they are the sole cable provider, and DSL is not offered
    AND WiMax is not available, AND satellite isn't possible, AND dial-up isn't available. I think if you lived in an area that remote, Comcast cable being in the ground is kind of a laughable impossibility.
    None of the three options you listed provide anywhere close to the bandwidth of cable. Satellite would be the closest, but of course with that you are still using dialup for uploads and you have to deal with high latency.

    I would agree that DSL is probably available in most places where cable is available. Indeed, there are plenty of rural areas where DSL is available but cable is not.

    Still, it is a very common situation even in cities to have your only options for high speed internet be Comcast cable or Verizon DSL. You are basically between a rock and a hard place in that situation.
  • Re:250? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tgatliff ( 311583 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:57AM (#23337654)
    First, this is what is known in the political world as a "trial balloon". Meaning, they are using a inside source to release the information to see it is builds traction without risk of embarrassment..

    Secondly, don't think that 250 Gig per month is where they want to be. Meaning, they do not have even close the amount of bandwidth available to provide this level to their customers. What I am sure they are wanting to do, however, is to get buy in a 250G limit, and reduce that amount over time to something closer to 20G per month.
  • by Hatta ( 162192 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:57AM (#23337660) Journal
    Isn't this a step in the right direction though? It would be nice to actually know the limits, so you can decide when and how you want to reach them. And 250GB is a reasonable limit for the price. That's roughly 100KB/s 24/7.
  • by Se7enLC ( 714730 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @10:59AM (#23337692) Homepage Journal
    250GB is a lot for ONE person to download in a month...... I could be wrong, but I would guess that most Comcast cable connections are to houses and apartments with MORE THAN ONE person living in them!

    With 6 people sharing cable, that impossible-to-reach 250GB turns into a paltry 42GB. Or about 1.4 gigs a day. It would be very easy to accidentally hit that if you watch videos online.

    I hope that they plan to tiered service like cell phone companies. Ideally with automatic tiering - so rather than paying ridiculous overage charges per-GB, you just pay for the price of the next tier. (as in, up to 250GB is $X a month, 300GB is $X+$Y/month, etc)
  • Re:Lawsuit (Score:5, Insightful)

    by D'Sphitz ( 699604 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @11:00AM (#23337708) Journal

    God damn it people need to learn if you say unlimited on the ad it means fucking unlimited. If you don't want people using it you need to say so. It's time people got together and sued these fuckers that do this crap.
    If you RTFA they are considering bandwidth caps, right now it is still unlimited. I'd assume if they do add caps they'd stop marketing it as "unlimited", or maybe they won't, who knows? There's no reason to throw a tantrum about it right now though.

    Good luck with your lawsuit.
  • by hansonc ( 127888 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @11:06AM (#23337798) Homepage
    Take a look at your power or water bill sometime. They both charge graduated rates based on over usage.

    Besides it's like your sibling comment points out 250GB is ~800Kbit/sec for 31 days.... that's 8+ divx movies^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H "linux iso's" per day every day for a month.
  • Re:250? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dsginter ( 104154 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @11:12AM (#23337890)
    And 250GB is pretty good, uTorrent downloads near-constantly for me, and I think I'd have trouble hitting that. That's about 8GB a day.

    This cap is to prevent internet from taking over television delivery (which is a huge cash cow for them). 720P under H264 compression is about 3GB per hour so this would prevent the average household (e.g. - 2 or 3 televisions running for a few hours per day) from dropping their $100/month cable tv subscription.

    We need anti-trust countermeasures here.

    Internet television delivery is powerful. Right now, only the extremely wealthy can control the horizontal and vertical. If you plug the internet into televisions and 20 million people decide to pay a penny each to watch "Leave Britney Alone!", then someone just made $200,000.

    You'll get a lot of clever content under this model. And internet speeds are getting to the point where we can start thinking about HD content to a significant amount of people.
  • Re:Lawsuit (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Looshi ( 1038712 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @11:17AM (#23337988)

    Yeah, I for one would rather have a clear and well-publicized cap than this mysterious wall people seem to be hitting. I think I would sleep easier at night knowing that I was still 20GB below the cap rather than worrying about the connection suddenly being shut off. You can measure your bandwidth usage and know for sure what your status is.

    That being said, it's still Comcast. So there's probably a catch there somewhere.

  • by poetmatt ( 793785 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @11:17AM (#23337994) Journal
    Yes, but once the cap starts it can be raised/lowered. There's a big significance here as far as stating a limit/not, and suddenly you're not just paying for speed but graduated usage as well.

    If they happened to offer maximum speed at all caps and had a variable rate of cap is one thing, but that's not the case here, it creates an artificial discrepancy.

    Also, yeah consumers are typically not even close to slashdot-smart so I wouldn't be surprised if plenty are confused by the changes or don't even understand the big deal.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 08, 2008 @11:21AM (#23338044)
    It's possible to download that amount of content perfectly legally. (posting as AC to protect the innocent). I personally have a subscription to www.videobox.com. For $10 per month I get access to 5 "adult" DVD's per day (legally). Most are around 1GB or more in size for the whole thing. While I certainly don't download EVERY one that is released each day, I certainly could if I wanted to.

    And that's just for one site, and only very early in our "digital delivery" revolution we're going through. You can now rent movies off iTunes (even HD ones), or through your Xbox 360. I have an Apple TV that I use for these types of rentals. You can subscribe to TV shows the same way (I subscribe to "Escape to Chimp Eden" and "The Universe", so there's another 2GB or so per month right there).

    I also have several video podcasts like Geekbreek.tv and WebbAlert that are each downloaded about 4 times per week that together add up to another GB or 2 of downloads per month.

    Add in OS updates (or source downloads for my Gentoo box), music purchases and audio podcasts and the amount of bandwidth used per month inches up pretty fast. That said, I'm virtually positive I'm still well under 250GB per month, but I certainly CAN envision breaking that limit easily within the next few years.
  • by gravis777 ( 123605 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @11:34AM (#23338268)
    I would be fine if they let me have roleover limits, kinda like AT&T does on minutes. Shoot, its only 10 in the morning, and I have already transfered 2 gig of data today alone, and it was not copyrighted material but material for work. During busy months, I can easily do 10-20 gig a DAY, then there will be other days when I may not even transfer 50 meg. I do not want to be punished on a month when I have to transfer 300-350 gig when the month before I transfered under 50 gig.
  • by bestinshow ( 985111 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @11:53AM (#23338552)
    This is all the provider's fault, because they've raised expectations in the consumers.

    What a typical DSL product offers is "download speed bursting to 8mbps shared amongst 20-50 users" depending on the contention ratio. The problem is that the infrastructure can't handle modern internet usage - streaming video, etc, when more than a few people are using it at the same time. In order to provide a fair internet service to the other people who are also using that connection they have to throttle big bandwidth users. This wasn't a problem even a couple of years ago, internet use was mostly bursty, with gaps of inactivity.

    Internet service should be sold based upon a minimum guaranteed bit rate, and the burst bit rate. I'd rather go for 256kbps/2mbps than 64kbps/8mbps.

    Oddly enough some services never seem to have a problem. Virgin Media Cable in my area is great, even at peak times you can get 250KB/s downloads on their budget 2mbps package. Yet in other areas it apparently sucks Satan's scaly cock.

    I really don't mind the idea of reasonable bandwidth caps, as long as they increase by ~25% year on year. 250GB/s is a lot of bandwidth, that's more movies than you can find the time to watch in a month, even in HD. Probably an issue for shared geek hohuseholds though.
  • by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @11:56AM (#23338598)
    And carry over unused bandwidth to next month.

    So I could use 20,20,500,20,20.

    I think this is going to be an issue as folks use the internet as cable. I don't think 250gb will affect normal P2P much. It took me about 15 months to download one terrabyte of data so that is about 80 gig a month.

    The problem is... 250 now... then 200... then 150...

    The other problem is...
    200mb shows now... 700mb shows three years from now (as we all go HD).

    People wouldn't pirate if prices were reasonable. If anime were $22 instead of $80, I would buy it. Sometimes, it's easier to wait for prices to come down than to download (X-Files, La Femme Nikita, Get Smart).

    I currently have a 1,000 hour backlog of things to watch on purchased DVD's. That's enough that some things, i will probably never ever see.

  • by keithjr ( 1091829 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @12:07PM (#23338746)
    It doesn't matter if the numbers are reasonable or not. The fact is, they going to be honest and transparent about their ToS. The throttling debacle was a controversy because no such limits were ever stipulated. By mandating such caps, they are making a measurable, quantitative mark rather than capriciously cutting service at their leisure.

    If you don't think these rates are reasonable, go with whatever the competing ISP in your area is. That's capitalism at work. All that matters here is whether or not the customers are getting what they knowingly pay for.
  • non-issue (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 08, 2008 @12:14PM (#23338850)
    Wow. I can't even believe this is actually an issue. 250 GB is a LOT. Here in Canada we have a 100 GB cap, and I've never come anywhere close to reaching that.

    Like someone else's reply, if you're using that much bandwidth perhaps it is time to step away from the computer and go get some fresh air with the other humans.
  • by Toonol ( 1057698 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @12:27PM (#23339030)
    What if more channels at a lower quality is what the consumer wants? I'm skeptical the typical viewer cares about quality above the minimum threshold of a poorly encoded dvd.
  • by mbone ( 558574 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @12:27PM (#23339034)
    Just wait for weekend Gigabytes, and TV commercials explaining Gigabyte friend circles and how you can carry your Gigabytes over from one month to the next !

    The thing that should worry anyone is that cell phone companies make much of their money from overage fees.

    I predict that if this goes into place, rather than improving the service, their effort will go into ever more complicated and confusing fee schedules.
  • Re:Lawsuit (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Adambomb ( 118938 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @12:36PM (#23339178) Journal

    No offense, but you were also at fault here

    This is also why ISP's should include a bandwidth cap in their contract.
    How was he at fault in any way when he purchased a service stated as being without limits, and then used it as such?

    Its not the users fault at all if the ISPs are going over capacity by selling what they do not have. In fact, if they hit their networks capacity and continue to sell the same terms to new customers, in the end they are comitting fraud (like selling someone a Ferrari at reasonable prices for a Ferrari and then delivering a Civic, to use the ever popular car analogies).
  • by rickb928 ( 945187 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @12:50PM (#23339418) Homepage Journal
    Comcast has cable modems, right?

    They mostly have 10MB interfaces? Then 10mb/s =600mb/m =36000mb/hr =4500MBytes/hr?

    =108000MBytes/day?

    Ok, this is Ethernet. Derate x.6 for CSMA/CD (I know it's switched. Don't believe you can get 100% utilization on a switched line). And do we get 64.8GBytes/day?

    Wow. Let me do this again:

    10mb/sec x.0 =6mb/sec =360mb/min =21600mb/hr = 2.16GByte/hr? (Byte = 8 bits?) For those of you scoring at home, this about half the speed of a streaming DDS-3 tape drive, probably LVD, with compression.

    Crap, I can't add any more. Maybe if we approach this differently?

    250GB/mo = 8.33GB/day. Somwhere I read that a Blu-Ray single-layer disc is 25GB. If we assume that a typical BR movei will take half the disc (not supported by evidence) then we need 12GB to dump a movie. We can dump about 20 movies a month and still have some cap room left to play Halo.

    But the math escapes me. If my cable modem is indeed 10MB, now much fracking data can I pump through it 24x7?

    I thought this would be easy. Needless to say, I am not a rocket scientist.

    Of course, if DOCSIS 2.0 is the system, it's limited to 30MB/s. Go look up the specs yersef. So I can't get more than 30mb no matter, and that's the limit. megaBIT. Math. Crap.

  • Man, who needs that "high-def" streaming shit? Let's nip it in the bud right now by making it prohibitively expensive to get any better video than Youtube off the Intertubes. They should be watching our cable shows anyway, where they're slightly more captive of an audience.
  • by ProfessionalCookie ( 673314 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @03:09PM (#23341614) Journal
    It wasn't even 10 years ago that a 2GB cap seemed totally reasonable. 250GB might seem like nothing today but give it three years and you'll see the wisdom of truth-in-advertising.

    It's should be listed as "800Kb/s, burstable 7Mb/s" or simply "250GB/month"

    Don't be short sighted.

  • by Cheeko ( 165493 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @03:40PM (#23342008) Homepage Journal
    I have no expectations of a dedicated 7Mb connection. I fully realize it will be shared and I'll be lucky to ever get a sustained connection at half that or even a quarter.

    Yes I get good burst speeds and low latency, which are fine, but when someone pays $100+ a month for cable/internet I expect them to let me use it as much as I want. If that means downloading 15GB files every night so be it.

    The point was more that I'm fairly certain I could use 250GB, but the limiting factor is how slow my actual connection is regardless of what I pay for. If they realistically know that I will see the same performance in a 3Mb, 5Mb, 7Mb line, then they shouldn't charge differently for them. If I pay for a separate level of connection I expect there to be some gain for it, even if that means my share of the overall pipe is 200k on average instead of 150k.
  • by Prof.Phreak ( 584152 ) on Thursday May 08, 2008 @04:57PM (#23342928) Homepage

    Indeed. 250GB seems on a high end for them.

    Maybe they're talking 'bits' instead of 'bytes'. ie: 250Gigabits seems to be approaching the upper limit of what they'd likely consider reasonable usage.

    Likely some manager said ``the upper limit should be 50% more than what a 56kbps modem would do in a month'' or something nebulous like that... which actually comes out to ~250-ish Gigabits.

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