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Google Businesses The Internet Privacy

Google's Street View Meets Resistance In France 201

Ian Lamont writes "Google has begun to scan the streets of Paris as part of its Street View service, but the company may be hindered from publishing them unedited. The reason? French privacy laws. Google may be forced to blur faces or use low-resolution versions of the photographs. The Embassy of France in the US has a page devoted to French privacy laws, that says the laws are needed to 'avoid infringing the individual's right to privacy and right to his or her picture (photograph or drawing), both of them rights of personality.'"
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Google's Street View Meets Resistance In France

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  • When in Rome... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NoobixCube ( 1133473 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @01:37AM (#23358660) Journal
    Or in this case, Paris. The law is the law, and Google need to respect the local laws. They do it in China, with their censored Google, so I can't imagine them putting up too much of a fight against French privacy laws.
  • Re:When in Rome... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kc8apf ( 89233 ) <kc8apf AT kc8apf DOT net> on Saturday May 10, 2008 @01:52AM (#23358728) Homepage
    If they are hiring people to drive vehicles outfitted with cameras around Paris, I would assume they have a business presence there. I'd expect them to follow French laws when doing business in France.
  • by Dunbal ( 464142 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @01:56AM (#23358742)
    So if you break US IP law in a country like say, Australia, you can be extradited and shipped for trial/prosecution in the US. But you have no problem with breaking French law by placing the servers inside the US?

    IE - USA! USA! USA! We'll do whatever we want, only when it suits us.

    Those days are over, mon ami.
  • Re:When in Rome... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rob1980 ( 941751 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @01:59AM (#23358752)
    If you're in another country, you obey that country's laws. Doesn't matter if you're a U.S.-based company taking 30 zillion pictures to post on the internet or you're a tourist on your honeymoon.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 10, 2008 @01:59AM (#23358756)
    " Google's Street View Meets Resistance in France"

    It is not resistance, it is the french law.

    As a French citizen, I find the Slashdot title offensive.

    Paris is the capital of a free sovereign country, France, which has its own Constitution and legal system, which is not the US ones!

    The title implies that american law should prevail everywhere! No! France is not a US colony.

    I am sure that most american (& french) citizens would expect French coorporations (e.g. Thales, Air Liquide, ...) to obey American laws on the American soil (e.g. Washington D.C.)

    Why should it be different for Google (an american coorporation) in France?
  • by concernedadmin ( 1054160 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @02:02AM (#23358772)

    Yeah, it's a cool thing to be able to browse the streets of a city in 3D, but honestly, who wants their faces, car plates, etc. published for all to see?
    How about getting a permit to get authorities to temporarily (say 10 minutes at most) block off certain streets to take pictures of the streets at every location desirable. I can't imagine it would take much longer. Benefits? People who inevitably meander into the pictures most likely want to be in the picture and don't really have much of a right to complain. They were warned (by signs, guards, etc.) and they got in (conversely, egomaniacs might not see it as a bad thing to have their faces on Google Maps). Disadvantages? Possibly slowing business down a bit, but it would be a one time thing and I imagine the benefit to small, relatively undiscovered businesses would be enormous. A small B&B with references on Google Maps would boost sales as I know a lot of people that consult TripAdvisor reviews (supplements that appear to the Google Maps images) to decide where to go during vacation trips or even routine business trips.
  • Re:When in Rome... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Slorv ( 841945 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @02:05AM (#23358786) Homepage
    (Obligatory: You must as american right?)

    Perfect! - So when I as a swede set up the new Piratebay in new York I only has to worry about swedish laws? - Grrrrrrreat!

    Come on, you follow the laws in the country you're in - it's that easy.
  • by bedonnant ( 958404 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @02:05AM (#23358788)
    exactly. we Frenchmen have seen the pictures of Americans taking a piss in these Google pictures. According to French law, a citizen owns the right to control how his/her image is used. Don't mind us if we have respect for ourselves.
  • by bedonnant ( 958404 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @02:07AM (#23358796)
    it's good to know that like everything else in the US, your own image has a price. A pretty low price. That you're only given if you're willing to fight.
  • by severoon ( 536737 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @02:32AM (#23358886) Journal

    I don't understand this French law thing. Let me see if I can get it straight...

    If I'm walking down a public street in Paris, I assume I'm allowed to look at other people, and be looked at by other people. If I have a camera with me I assume I'm allowed to take pictures, as I do not, and no one else, has any expectation of privacy. You're on a public street.

    Now if I publish those photos, given that any person viewing the images could have just as well been there at the scene at the time I took the images and seen it for themselves without violating anyone's privacy, I assume that there's no violation of privacy there either.

    Thus we find ourselves in Google's situation. So what is the privacy problem here?

    If they were to pick a person at random and use that person in advertising in a way that made it seem the person was endorsing something, then that shouldn't really be allowed unless the person actually does endorse the product and agreed to be represented as such. But that's not happening here.

    If the person had some reasonable expectation of privacy, such as walking around a gym locker room in the buff, or in a public restroom, or in their own home or on private property not viewable from a public area, that would be different. Doesn't seem like that's happening here either.

    Where is the big ethical problem here? I just don't see it.

  • by straponego ( 521991 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @02:55AM (#23358956)
    I like that concept, "Rights of Personality." It cuts to the essence of a disturbing trend in places like the US and the UK. More and more, every minute of one's life is scrutinized by the state, business, marketers, and random individuals. But the next step is the research is being done on various mind-reading technologies. Right now, these manifest themselves as "lie detectors" and DHS-type projects to look for terrorists, smugglers, and other nogoodniks. Also, marketing types want to be able to detect your internal reactions to ads, to fine tune their attacks on yor will. Soon they'll be able to track your eyes to see who you find attractive, then include similar models in ads targeted at you (this could be a fantastic optimization for porn, I admit).

    The trend, and the goal, is to be able to read more people, at greater distance. We don't know how far this technology can go, but some of the things already being tested are capable enough to give one pause. If you are not allowed to think unauthorized thoughts (to question the state; to remember a song without paying royalties), do you have a personality? Do you have free will? It seems to me that at that point, consciousness would be a curse.

    Gene Wolfe wrote, I believe in Soldier of the Mist, that "A man without a sword is a slave." I would contend that today it's more relevant to say that a man without privacy is a prisoner; a man without private thoughts is a slave.

    It's nice to know that some places still maintain the concept of a right to privacy.

  • by Xuranova ( 160813 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @03:31AM (#23359052)
    How is that an interesting idea or even relevant? Taking pictures of a home or something is one thing, identifying who it belongs to is another. Google isn't giving you the ability to click on a home and get the details of whose inside. Nice job trying to instigate though. You get a C for effort.
  • crazy attitudes (Score:2, Insightful)

    by nguy ( 1207026 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @04:15AM (#23359246)
    The French are crazy when it comes to photography; it's the only place where I have ever experienced hostility towards street photography. For a country for which tourism is so important, that just seems stupid. The notion that your image is public when you're in a public location (barring a few exceptions) seems to be fine, but the French seem to assume that they can stroll along with their mistresses and be safe from accidental embarrassment.

    My conclusion? Avoid France for tourism, and publish the pictures I took anyway. So sue me.
  • So, does anyone find StreetView genuinely useful enough to be worth all the privacy hassle?

    I would/will find it useful if/when it covers German cities. I'm not a native of this country (or Europe, or even the Northern Hemisphere for that matter) and sometimes a map just isn't enough. The satellite view on Google Maps is handy, but still not quite good enough, since rooftops can look quite different to the view from below.

    The problem comes when I have a hard time identifying something that I see with my own eyes as being a street or not. That's a lot more common than you'd think here! Especially near the centre of large cities.

    If I had streetview to help, I would know it's "the first big red brick building on the left after the pretty looking church, just across the road from that department store where I bought my shoes", which is a lot more handy than a point on a map!

  • by Serious Callers Only ( 1022605 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @05:34AM (#23359532)
    yes I did read it - I see you neglected to quote the most relevant part :

    Taking photographs of a person in a public place would not normally be regarded as an invasion of privacy.
    So photographs in the street are not illegal. What would be illegal would be entering private property or taking photos of people in a situation where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy (in their back garden, inside their house, etc). Google doesn't use telephoto lenses - I suppose it's conceivable they could be asked to remove a picture of the interior of someone's property from the street (if such a thing ended up on Google Maps), but not of the street itself with people in it.
  • by tmk ( 712144 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @05:50AM (#23359574)
    What does this mean? Privacy is an illusion? Should we dismiss this old fashioned concept?
  • by maxume ( 22995 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @08:15AM (#23360072)
    Respect for other people will never be an outdated concept.
  • by nguy ( 1207026 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @08:40AM (#23360184)
    You don't actually have permission to take photos of any faces in public.

    Bullshit.

    The big ethical problem is that if there aren't these controls on how your photo/voice/identity is used, then people get exploited.

    The only "ethical problem" is if nitwits want to restrict the public's right to document public events in public places. That's a threat to our democracy, not because people are desperate to document your bad hair day or lack of style, but because those restrictions could be used by individuals and corporations to prevent the release of embarrassing but information of public interest on them.

    In many countries, you are not even permitted to photograph the front lawn of someone's private residence, even though it is the 'public face' of his home.

    Well, that may be the case in North Korea, but I can't think of any democracies where that's the case.

    Not everybody wants their stuff photographed, thank you very much.

    If you are in a public place in a country that doesn't specifically prohibit it, you're fair game to be photographed and published on the web; I don't give a damn if you want to or not. And if there is a compelling interest to photograph you, I'll do so even in countries where there are laws against it.
  • by PieceofLavalamp ( 1244192 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @08:40AM (#23360188)
    No where does it say that Google expects immunity to french laws. The summary says it will have to edit them to comply with french laws. Meaning there is an impediment to the publishing. A resistance to publishing. Now if they don't edit the photos then you can object and I encourage you to but right now your just beating your patriotic chest. And theres nothing wrong with that, though i don't understand how thats +5 insightful.
  • by SerpentMage ( 13390 ) on Saturday May 10, 2008 @10:06AM (#23360596)
    Wait one minute. There is public street and privacy.
    Let say that you take a picture of a street full of apartments. (This is the case in Paris) And in one of those shots you happen to take there is a woman changing. Yes the shot is inadvertent, but it is invasion of privacy because the angle of the shot happens to include both the street and the woman.

    As the article said:

    2. By taking, recording or transmitting, without his or her consent, the picture of a person who is in a private place.

    When you are on the street then you are not in a private place, and that I think is not the issue the French are talking about.

interlard - vt., to intersperse; diversify -- Webster's New World Dictionary Of The American Language

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