First Release Candidate of Wine 1.0 Released

moronikos writes to mention that the first release candidate of Wine 1.0 was announced and released into the wild today. This new version includes only bug fixes as the team is in a code freeze while pushing for the full 1.0 release.

Wait, What?!

[aitikin]

I was always under the impression that WINE, based on how it is designed, would never be finished, or even close to a finished release point. I mean, yeah, I know 1.0 doesn't mean it's done, just that it hit a specific milestone, but even so, WINE, being considered a ⥠1.0 version seems to me like it shouldn't happen until it can at least come close to running most everything thrown at it.

Just my non-developer, non-programer, former WINE-user $.02.

Y'know

[Colin Smith]

When I switched from Windows to Linux, it turned out that I was able to function without specific applications, there are Linux equivalents for pretty much everything.
 

Re:but...

[1336]

I've actually tested to see if Wubi can start in Wine (the answer is yes, though it depends on the version; rev 507 from http://wubi-installer.org/devel/minefield/ [wubi-installer.org] starts) I didn't push the install button though...

What does 1.0 mean?

[wrook]

I tried to find this from the Wine website, but couldn't seem to find it.

What does it mean to be 1.0 (if anything)? Is there any set of functionality that they were trying to hit for 1.0? Or is it just that "Many, many things work great, so let's just call this 1.0"?

Just curious...

Re:but...

[ardor]

It would be SO ironic if one had to use Wine in Cygwin to play older games in Vista without crashes...

Re:Hooray! Long live Wine 1.0!

[Kjella]

I am hoping this version will be treated as a longer lived, stable, supported branch.

WINE will never become quite like other software, which define their own features. Think of it like a web browser with lousy standards support (not that the Windows API is anything like a standard), there's really no point in creating a very long-lifed branch that scores 58%. You do some development and you're at 61% and the new version is just better and should replace the old one everywhere. The only real reason to keep a stable branch is to keep people from getting hit with regressions. Because all kinds of software runs on top of WINE, it can have some really bad regressions as applications can go from platinum (runs flawlessly) to garbage (not at all) because it does something in the initialization that failed. So yes, a more stable branch than the biweekly development snapshots is good. Any older branch than say 3-6 months I think will be pretty useless.

Re:but...

[TeknoHog]

Finally, for the semantically pedantic: yes, recent versions of Dosbox also have a "dynamic" execution mode which tries to do the same that wine does. Naturally, it only works when running Dosbox on x86-compatible hardware.

QEMU does this too, as does any decent virtualization system. So emulation means translation between different kinds of hardware?

Wine - an unmitigated SUCCESS!

[blind biker]

Just look at the list of applications supported by Wine [winehq.org] and you'll understand why I say that. Basically, if I can run Civ IV, Heroes IV and other strategy games on Linux, and with Matlab having a Linux version, there's very little to justify my using Windows. OK, there's Fruityloops, but that's it!

Re:So what's the definition?

[theeddie55]

is 1.0 some "complete feature set" release, suggesting that I can now run any windows software

Not even windows can run any windows software.

Mac Binaries?

[TheRaven64]

Does this mean they'll start releasing binaries for OS X soon? I've compiled it a couple of times, but it's a lot of effort (you need to check out things from two separate svn repositories, run a script, hunt bugs, then compile for every version), and since they claim in the first paragraph of the front page to support OS X I'd really expect them to have regular binary builds.

World Domination getting closer...

[hungrigerhaifisch]

If you read http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/world-domination-201.html#id247954 [catb.org] you will much better understand why they are pushing for a 'clean' 1.0 release. Its 'now or never' ...

Personally I 'need' support for Rollercoaster Tycoon 3, not for myself, but for my girlfriend. It is the single showstopper for her linux experience, and until it is fixed, I'll never hear the end of it :(

Re:Hooray! Long live Wine 1.0!

[slimjim8094]

That's called winegcc, I think. Basically you code your apps to work on Wine and compile it to a native application using that.

Either Google Earth or Picasa (or both) do that.

Cygwine?

[tepples]

but you can run cygwin to get a linux-like environment ;)

Some people have used Wine and Cygwin as test cases for each other [slashdot.org].

Re:serious question

[The Snowman]

If the application is explicitly Wine-aware, it shouldn't be that hard to get it Gtk+/Qt themed, use UNIX-styled file dialogs or call native libraries for Linux-specific functionality. Of course .Net/Mono may be a better solution for a lot of developers.

If I am going to make an application Wine-aware, why use the cruddy old Win32 API or (barf) MFC when I can use a true cross-platform API such as Qtk+/Qt as you mentioned but natively, not emulated? I see no reason to use OS-specific code for any newly-developed application anymore. All of my application coding is done in Java, or C++ with either Gtk+ or Qt. I want my crap to run natively everywhere, and with minimal effort.

Re:Hooray! Long live Wine 1.0!

[Vlobulle]

The whole Wine idea is that you shouldn't need any 'tips or tricks' to run a program and that Wine should be able to simulate perfectly the chosen Windows platform. 'Bug fixing' being only avoiding regressions between versions.

Hence there isn't really a need for branching. The 1.0 version is only here to tell everyone how far they went, but there is really nothing particular with it. Any given application could have started to work in any older version.

Of course, after they will have reached the point where any Vista application can work flawlessly (as in 'like on Vista, bugs included'), then they may start to 'fix bugs' for real, that is build a strictly spec-compliant Win32 api platform. Using it would obviously break a lot of native applications, but could be the start of a real Wine/win32 platform to which developers could target

.

Re:So what's the definition?

[paskie]

Would you hold Wine responsible for bugs or use of undocumented internals in the programs that do not run?

If the applications are wide-spread, for that matter, yes, I would. Wine's point is not to emulate ideal Windows environment but to make Windows apps run on Linux, and if working around bugs in them that don't show in Windows is what it takes too, it should do it. Microsoft also does plenty of regression testing when making new version of Windows, often adding workarounds for widespread older apps - in that case it's controversial but Wine is even more clear-cut here.

If it's just about implementing the documented APIs, that shouldn't be that hard after all, but that's not where the devil is, I believe.

Re:Hooray! Long live Wine 1.0!

[Anonymous Coward]

Google Earth is a native Linux app written in Qt (older version Qt3, the newer one is now Qt4).

If I recall correctly, Picasa uses the exact same executable under both Windows and Linux and just packages a snapshot of Wine that's known to work.

Wine Story

[Anonymous Coward]

I've used Ubuntu for 3 or 4 years now, both on servers at work and a home desktop, I'm an EE and some of my design software is best run under windows so my work laptop has been winXP.

Recently bought a new personal laptop which came with Vista *cringe* this is my first experience using vista on a daily basis...

I tried an experiment, my desktop runs hardy and has a similar graphics card to my new laptop

Specs:

Laptop
Asus G1S-B2
Nvidia 8600M GT 256MB
3GB of ram
7200 RPM drive
1680x1050 screen (15.4")
Vista Home Prem

Desktop
2 8600 GTS non SLI driving 4 monitors @ 1680x1050
Raptor 10kRPM drive with OS on it
3ware RAID 5 ~1TB array with /home (.wine is here)
4GB ram
Ubuntu Hardy
most recent wine stable from ubuntu reps
Compiz active, 4 screens, xinerma + twinview screen setup

Installed WOW as a test...

Installing wow in wine + wow was a breeze, obviously the drives involved were much faster but in terms of hand ups, there were none.

Installing wow in vista was fine until it wanted to update, i had figure out that i had to run the app as admin to allow it to install updates...why? no clue, bad programming.

Load times are obviously basically instant on the desktop, this is drive issue tho...

now the interesting bit.

FPS on the desktop are consistently 50% higher on the desktop with the same settings, even if I am rotating the cube in compiz wine runs wow faster than my desktop on a quite similar graphics card, granted the desktop 8600 runs with a higher clock (tho the asus laptop i have runs the 8600M faster than standard and is only 75Mhz core clock away from the desktop version) This is with the desktop card also driving a second screen and handing compiz. No hang ups closing and opening the window in ubuntu, flipping screens on the laptop results in a big ol' pause...

I'd tried wow under cedega a year or so ago and hated the graphics glitchs and the insane load times...

i have to say, wine has come a long way...the day when wine runs a graphics intensive app faster than it can run under windows is awesome, i find it hilarious that the wine guys can impersonate windows and run apps faster than they can run under the native OS....goes to show how poorly windows is really written...

anyway, i'm going to play with vista a bit more for my own knowledge then this laptop will most likely convert to hardy...given what i've learned i may try all my engineering apps with wine too, perhaps then i can convert completely...

-x

Heres a novel idea though...

[AndGodSed]

The following statement from parent got met thinking.

Personally, I would prefer just to see more true Linux versions of software, particularly among the popular games.

What if wine would be implemented in a distro like PCLOS or Ubuntu. Imagine if you can run Linux and pop in most any "written for windows" piece of software and wine runs it natively on linux?

If wine were to be integrated in some of the larger distros I am convinced the larger exposure will speed along development, and speed the acceptance of Linux in the workplace.

Re:Mac Binaries?

[TheRaven64]

Wine worked fine with the version of X11 that came with 10.4 if you disabled GLX (so no Direct3D, but everything else worked). With the experimental builds that were available based on X.org 7.2, and (I think) with the version included with 10.5, this is supposed to be fixed, but I haven't tried building WINE since then. If you get the OS X build from CrossOver, they bundle their own X server, which would be another option for the WINE folks - get the bits of x.org that they need, build a known-to-work-with-WINE version and bundle it in a .app with the download.

On moving targets.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

With regards to the "windows is a moving target" discussion that always comes up with WINE, the "but specific versions, particularly legacy ones, aren't." answer sufficiently addresses the platform's past. In fact, I strongly suspect that WINE on *nix could be a serious contender when certain cranky legacy systems have to be replaced. What I've seen less about is the future. The new .net stuff is probably mono's department; but loads of common windows stuff is still win32. There the moving target problem still exists.

It would make the future very much easier if the case could be made to software vendors that the *nix market is, or might soon be, of value. They would then have an incentive to keep WINE in mind while developing. The changes wouldn't need to be immediate or radical, just trying to keep out of ill-supported areas of win32, where possible, and bringing things that they run into to the WINE team's attention.

Obviously, some vendors would not, for technical or business reasons, be willing or able to do this(Office, some games, etc.); but those that can would be useful. In particular, this might be really helpful to address the class of critical but unsexy apps that *nix is often weak on. Bookkeeping, inventory, payroll, various other stuff in the category of boring but common business niche software.

Lightweight host

[tepples]

You don't have a lot of spare RAM? (e.g. using VirtualBox requires enough RAM for the host OS + the RAM for the virtualized OS + the RAM for the app running in it; with Wine you eliminate the need for the virtualized OS)

Unless you run some lightweight host operating system such as Xubuntu.

You don't want to buy a Windows license/pirate Windows for a single app?

There's the same thing about console libraries. I wouldn't buy a Nintendo DS just to play Animal Crossing, but I'd buy it to play Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Colors!, DSOrganize, and Lockjaw Tetromino Game.