Windows 7 Won't Have Compact "MinWin" Kernel 580
An anonymous reader points us to an interview Microsoft's Windows 7 development chief, Steven Sinofsky, did with CNet. He reveals that Windows 7 will be a further evolution of Vista, and will lose the rumored MinWin kernel. "We're very clear that drivers and software that work on Windows Vista are going to work really well on Windows 7; in fact, they'll work the same. We're going to not introduce additional compatibilities, particularly in the driver model. Windows Vista was about improving those things. We are going to build on the success and the strength of the Windows Server 2008 kernel, and that has all of this work that you've been talking about. The key there is that the kernel in Windows Server 08 is an evolution of the kernel in Windows Vista, and then Windows 7 will be a further evolution of that kernel as well."
Disappointing (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh well, maybe this will enable the year(s) of the Linux on the desktop (smile)?
Re:So the scaling back of Featues begins (Score:4, Interesting)
Losing small businesses (Score:5, Interesting)
Otherwise, I could be running on OS X for 1 laptop and the PCs would be switched over to Ubuntu or something similiar, maybe RedHat.
Years ago, the internet was hamstringed by many windows only incompatibilities. Firefox evened the playing field there. Most programs were windows only (Quickbooks and Tax Programs can run on Mac now).
Windows grasp in my business is tenuous indeed. Granted, mine is a small business - but aren't many in America?
Plus in Linux, it's simple not to include a webbrowser. You can do the same in Windows, IIRC, (actually just turn it off), but there always seems to be a workaround on firing it up again. Those are one of the biggest productivity killers - my employees should be surfing at home.
It's not that I care about licensing fees, but my operation is too small to hire someone technical who knows how to do everything the right way and I find the Windows boxes need the most babysitting. Time killer = Money Wasted.
Re:Hmmm (Score:4, Interesting)
I'll bet their target now is to generate hype, then cut features, and try to slip the product out before the hype wears off and everyone finds out it was a sham ad campaign.
We want XP (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Guarranteed To Suck (Score:5, Interesting)
Good, maintainable, understandable code is now perfectly fast. MS's competitors now have the advantage from a good code bas. Meanwhile, the development process at MS as stagnated. (Remember the story of the shutdown dialog in Vista. Twelve people all working on code various degrees away from the trunk. Not good.)
But I agree with your assessment that MS hasn't delivered on the cool. Apple is eating their lunch in the good looking and working camps. Linux is still king of the UNIX-like environment that seems to be in a Renaissance now. Still, MS has a big install base. They've worked hard to use incompatible file types to build lock-in. The aren't going anywhere for a while.
Re:..and will lose the rumored MinWin kernel. (Score:5, Interesting)
OTOH, consider this: Windows cannot be fixed without breaking backwards compatibility.
Therefore, in order to offer a new product, the old one should be abandoned, which cannot be done at the present point in time.
Imagine, then, that this possible decline of Windows is actually planned.
We know Microsoft is working on a new Windows kernel, on a wholly new operating system and whatnot... could it be that they are actually planning to lower their market share (thus dodging some anti-trust bullets), and then offer something new and improved, even if it proves to be Unix reinvented?
Or is it too much to expect from a behemoth?
Re:Disappointing (Score:3, Interesting)
Excellent (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Losing small businesses (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:So? (Score:1, Interesting)
- DRM. It's in everything in Vista. That means it is checking constantly whether media is valid or not. That puts overhead. Copy a file from one drive to another. It's dramatically slower than XP because Vista has to check whether you are stealing from yourself.
- UAC^H^H^HSecurity. It checks whether you should run something when you ran it specifically. Mind you it doesn't prevent anything. It just constantly asks you to be sure. Some would call it needless overhead.
That's the two I can think of.Re:..and will lose the rumored MinWin kernel. (Score:5, Interesting)
IIRC, Apple did this when they moved from their old OS to their current one and it did wonders to ease the transition while still allowing Apple to break free of the shackles of backwards compatibility.
My Own Ubuntu Distro or Live CD/DVD w/ RemasterSys (Score:0, Interesting)
I'm surprised this isn't more well known, Ubuntu + Remastersys is very nice and easy:
http://www.remastersys.klikit-linux.com/ [klikit-linux.com]
Official Remastersys forum, here's where you ask and learn:
http://loscompanion.com/forums/index.php?board=58.0 [loscompanion.com]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remastersys [wikipedia.org]
http://lifehacker.com/software/linux-tip/make-an-ubuntu-backup-live-cddvd-with-remastersys-330181.php [lifehacker.com]
http://klikit.pbwiki.com/Remastersys [pbwiki.com]
http://www.ubuntu-unleashed.com/2007/09/remaster-and-clone-your-ubuntu-install.html [ubuntu-unleashed.com]
http://www.ubuntugeek.com/creating-custom-ubuntu-live-cd-with-remastersys.html [ubuntugeek.com]
http://www.howtoforge.com/ubuntu-linux-mint-livecd-with-remastersys [howtoforge.com]
For those that don't already have it handy, here is the repo info for you
# Remastersys
deb http://www.remastersys.klikit-linux.com/repository [klikit-linux.com] remastersys/
Please MOD this up if you find it useful, I think it is, but it gets buried with time and people don't see it because I'm posting as anonymous coward, thanks!
In short, I don't need Windows, it failed me long ago and fails me now, no reason to expect or care for it (or the convicted monopoly) to improve.
Re:3, 2, 1.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Am I the only one who's leaving system administration over Vista?
It's being rammed down our throats right now and it's just way too awful. It's actually the reason I'm quitting my sysadmin job and am going back to college for a non-computer related degree this fall.
Version number? (Score:3, Interesting)
On the other hand Microsoft has never been logical with version numbers, Word 2 -> 5 -> 97 -> XP -> 2007. Exponential growth seems to be what they're aiming for.
Re:Guarranteed To Suck (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple has a chance to beat Windows 7 to the market with an OS that would be absolutely superb. I hope they seize the chance. I fear that their rapid increase in marketshare and product range might make this difficult.
Re:..and will lose the rumored MinWin kernel. (Score:3, Interesting)
Quote? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:hmmmmm Vista... powershell ... winfs..... etc (Score:4, Interesting)
With the Linux desktop, whichever variety you choose, there remains large technological advancements before it is usable by the general public. With Windows, it works, and has been working for over ten years for the majority of people.
Vista has improved many small things that always ticked me off with XP. Better file browser, better wifi controls, but really, a countless list of small changes that make just make desktop life easier. If you want to see quantifiable changes with something that is about feel (the desktop), I'm afraid you won't find it.
Speed-wise, SP1 made everything more responsive and quicker, and switching between windows seems a lot better than on XP. And we all know that hardly anyone installed XP on old computers -- preferring at the time their old Windows 2000, but eventually XP won people over as they upgraded.
But, like another poster referenced, you likely wouldn't spend money on an os anyways. A few hundred bucks spread out over many years for something that I spend hours with daily, and makes things go easier IS worth my hard-earned money, and the frustrations saved over XP are worth it because I value my time.
For very similar reasons, when it comes to servers, I'll never use Windows, and instead stick with Linux -- less frustrations, more reliable performance.
Re:hmmmmm Vista... powershell ... winfs..... etc (Score:3, Interesting)
Part of the problem is the developer devide, between windows development and Unix/Linux development. There is little cross sharing ammong them and the OSS Comunity and Microsoft both contribute to the devide.
Both sides ignores good ideas from the other side and focus on what tradeoffs they made that your soloution was different. Hah! My version uses 1/2 less memory... Hah! My version runs twice as fast. And there are two very distinct coding methods for Windows and Unix development. Windows Development focuses on using the Higher Level OS/Framework libraries as much as possible. Linux and other OSS development puts more effort into doing everything from scratch unless there are some solid very widely used libraries out there. They both have their Plusses and Minuses but people are so suck on their way they are not willing to stop and think. Wow lets put useful system information in a file like stucture so we can just use a basic file read function to get the info and be able to make easy modifications for different os's, or lets standardize on a good upper level GUI development platform where calls from one to the other is fairly easy.
Re:hmmmmm Vista... powershell ... winfs..... etc (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:hmmmmm Vista... powershell ... winfs..... etc (Score:4, Interesting)
I disagree with this. For the most part the problems preventing Linux from being usable to everyone as a desktop are not technological ones. Lack of application compatibility and lack of hardware drivers are the two main issues and both are the result of the state of the industry. Were Linux and Windows switched market share tomorrow (by an act of Allah) in a year or two people would be complaining that Windows is not ready for the desktop because application developers, hardware manufacturers, and computer OEMs were targeting Linux. This is not to say, they are not real problems, only that they are no more a technological fault of Linux that they are of Windows.
I agree Vista does include numerous small improvements and features; but I'd also argue it includes anti-features as well, designed to benefit MS or their partners at the expense of the end user (more draconian DRM for example). I'd also argue that it is MS's monopoly on desktop OS's that is the reason why there is so little advancement in the field. Traditionally, one of the main problems with monopolies is that they retard innovation in that market because the monopolist has little incentive to put time and money into improvements because customers are going to buy whatever they make anyway. Other companies are likewise discouraged from investing in innovation in the market because the monopoly power means it will cost more for less return and with more risk than a healthy market. Face it, there is plenty of room for improvement of OS's. Hell, Vista still doesn't even have a spell checker that works in all my applications and uses the same dictionary, let alone other universal services. It's been what, ten years since the first OS with that feature was shipped (then killed).
Most people don't have a clue what an OS even is. People were never "won over" by XP, so much as it became ubiquitous because it was pre-installed on every home computer and eventually it was needed in business as well (despite the speed problems) for application compatibility. The drawback of speed didn't go away, but was made less important as the hardware people were running gradually was replaced with faster gear. Doubtless the same thing will happen with Vista.
I'm a professional in the computer industry and I have no problem shelling out cash for an OS. In fact, I've shelled out cash for WinXP, Vista, and OS X. Additionally I make use of Ubuntu and Solaris on the desktop and numerous other OS's for server use. That said, I do not yet recommend Vista for corporate use and don't use it as my main, Windows desktop because of numerous issues of which performance is only one. I expect within the next year those issues will mostly be resolved, but truthfully, I expected the same thing a year ago and it hasn't quite happened yet. Application compatibility is better, but still not good enough for me to do my daily work on it.
Re:..and will lose the rumored MinWin kernel. (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh it doesn't. We're running XP now and will likely continue to do until 20xx (xx being an arbitrarily high number) when MS shuts down support for XP. Likely sometime after Service Pack 6 is shipped.
That's Microsoft's problem. Why upgrade? We buy a new Dell with Vista? Who cares, we just burn our default image of XP onto the machine, just like we do if we buy a machine with XP on it.
The new Dell business class machines "won't run" XP because the new peripheral bits don't have XP drivers? Who cares? There are going to be bizillions of XP capable machines out there for at least the next decade. Is XP a PITA? Yep. Would we like to go to something safer and saner? Yep. WOULD we upgrade if it made significant business sense? Yep. Does Vista offer that? Nope. So no biscuit for you, Mr. Ballmer.
Typed from a Mac cuz I'm wasting time at home instead of wasting time at work...
Re:So? (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft trotting after apple (Score:3, Interesting)
Vista is so complex that normal users and even sysadmins are suffering. While I'm that navigating through the labyrinth that is Vista's various control panels and settings gets easier with time, it mainly shows an almost total lack of communication between the various development teams at Microsoft.
I also imagine that Microsoft's lack of direction is making them panic. Kicking out various managers, like Allchin, but keeping king size buffoons like Ballmer only make the situation worse. Not knowing how they can improve on the disaster that is Vista, they variously try to copy:
a) Google,
b)Apple,
and when the going gets really rough, even
c) Linux.
The touch screen thingamabob they demoed today must have Apple employees laughing so hard they must be crying. If you think that Vista has enormous hardware requirements, and it really does, can you imagine what that touch screen thingy will require, which is in reality, just Microsoft trying to do a vapourware job on Apple.
The problem is that the media have grown up (partly at least). No one is going to fall for MS vapourware until Microsoft produces concrete implementations on commodity hardware. Apple's iPhone can do all that on an embedded CPU...