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Google Businesses The Internet Software Utilities (Apple)

Google Gets Serious About Open Source Mac Projects 193

mjasay sends us a link to a CNet story, which begins: "In the '20 percent time' that Google employees have to work on projects of personal interest, it turns out that an increasing number are spending time writing open-source projects for their Macs. Google has long had a fondness for the Mac, with upwards of 6,000 of its 20,000 current employees opting to use the Mac over Windows. It is in the 20 percent employee development time, however, where this statistic becomes interesting. At Google, development time translates into products. The more Mac-friendly employees, the more Mac-related development. The more Mac-related development, the more Google-sponsored Mac-based open-source code. As Google's Mac Developer Playground demonstrates, some of this code is quite interesting."
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Google Gets Serious About Open Source Mac Projects

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  • by kipman725 ( 1248126 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @12:20PM (#23693907)
    To me open source on a non opensource OS (apple has a patchey history with opening bits of OS) has always seemed a little contridictory and defeating the purpose of running a free or opensource system.
  • by FinchWorld ( 845331 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @12:26PM (#23693937) Homepage
    Why? Surely if its open source anyone can take it, compile it, and use it on whatever they want. How much propriety software lets you do that? By limiting open source software to only play nice with other open source software (OS, whatever), you become a little bit like Microsoft.
  • by ColdWetDog ( 752185 ) * on Saturday June 07, 2008 @12:30PM (#23693955) Homepage

    To me open source on a non opensource OS (apple has a patchey history with opening bits of OS) has always seemed a little contridictory and defeating the purpose of running a free or opensource system.

    That's just plain silly. You don't have to have the source code for every tiny little bit on the computer for source code to be useful. Really, how many people need to dink with the kernel, be it Windows, OS X or Linux?

    Sharing code is useful at the application level. You should re examine your zealotry, son. It's gonna cause you some grief. Mark my words ... You'll grow a beard, be shunned at parties. You will want to put posters of RMS on your wall. Your mother will disown you.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 07, 2008 @12:45PM (#23694051)
    I think your misunderstanding the commenter. It's a shame that people are doing OSS work on proprietary OSs because it gets tied into non-free libraries and then becomes useless.
    Can you really call

    void main() {
    ProprietaryFunction();
    }

    an open source program? And even if it can, is it useful with out the proprietary part?
  • by MMC Monster ( 602931 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @01:10PM (#23694211)
    I don't know. Is Firefox on MSWindows useless? At some point they'll have to call a proprietary library.

    The nice thing is that they can put wrappers around the proprietary function call bits and potentially make the software run on multiple OSs. (As Firefox does.)
  • Here's why (Score:2, Insightful)

    by NDPTAL85 ( 260093 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @01:15PM (#23694251)
    The appeal is the quality of the user interface and developer community as opposed to both of those on Linux.

    Superior interface, mature developers vs Whatever bad interface you want to use, we got 10 of them and childish political programmers who think what software license one uses is the civil rights battle of our time.

    Oh and users. As in Macs have more non-programmer users than Linux does.

    When you look at it that way its not much of a contest.
  • by Capitalist Piggy ( 1298699 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @01:24PM (#23694299)
    I do. Though it's karma suicide, as my last post got modded "redundant", although nobody else mentioned it, within 30 seconds of clicking submit. You can't bring up facts about /.'s golden children without some neck-beard in his mother's basement trying to shut you down.

    You can, pretty much, take Google and insert $SEXY_COMPANY_HERE and expect Google to be best buddies with them when it comes to what's relayed to the public. This helps form advertising partnerships, makes investors balls swell, etc.

    The more I've been reading about what Google employees do, the more it becomes apparent that most must be driving new Beetles, wearing "Can you hear me now?"-guy glasses, latte sipping, looking serious while browsing myspace at the coffee shop, goatee donning weeners.
  • by 0100010001010011 ( 652467 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @01:30PM (#23694359)
    #include
    main()
    {
            printf("Hello World");

    }
    -
    Hrm. Seems to work just fine on my Mac and my Debian Box. I guess I foiled apple again.

    Or if you mean Apple has their own language, Cocoa, which isn't ported to XP or Linux. Funny thing is, you're not forced to use it.

    Since we're on the topic of cross plat form stuff, it's not OSS, but it was one of the best selling games ever: Myst.
  • by Znork ( 31774 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @01:37PM (#23694405)
    Really, how many people need to dink with the kernel, be it Windows, OS X or Linux?

    Well, it's a fair number, but it's not necessarily the number of people, but the _right_ people we need to be dinking around with the kernel. Unfortunately, with proprietary operating systems, it seems the right people are not necessarily doing that.

    I don't personally dink around that much in the kernel (altho I've bypassed a bug or two in drivers), but I certainly want the genius with too much free time and the same hardware that I have who can fix the bugs to have access to the source. I dont want to hack my own paravirtualising hypervisor, but I'm very pleased to use xen technology, which would have been very difficult to implement without open source.

    As a user of programs and operating systems I usually dont need the source. But I do need many improvements made by people with similar interests to me; interests that may overlap very much less with the strategic thinking of a single monolithic corporation.

    Sharing code is useful at the application level.

    Free software is useful at any level you want to have improved. Which is pretty much all of them. Personally I dont have the patience for proprietary products anymore; I find most tend to have issues that would never survive a few iterations in an opensource product. With free software products I know that if it annoys me enough it'll annoy someone else enough to fix it.

    Now go away. I have a beard to tend to.
  • by Cannelloni ( 969195 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @01:52PM (#23694499)
    Because it's a damn good and user-friendly operating system, with a large user base and a vibrant developer community and thousands of professional and home user applications. That's why.
  • by brian_tanner ( 1022773 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @02:05PM (#23694573)

    I don't really see the appeal to Google.

    It has nothing to do with appeal to Google...

    1. 6000 of Google's employees choose Mac (over Windows) at the office
    2. Developers tend to spend their 20% paid free time working on projects related to their OS of choice
    3. There is no 3.

    At Google, people get paid to work on whatever they want (some of the time), and those developers (not Google as an entity) choose to create open source Mac software.
  • by Paradise Pete ( 33184 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @02:16PM (#23694629) Journal
    This is why I consider the Mac OSS community to be a bunch of leeches. They've ported most open source unix applications to OS X but to date have given nothing useful back.

    I think you misunderstand how it works. The original author rarely ports it to a platform he doesn't use. He makes the source available, and someone who is willing and able to make it work on another platform can do that. You even said it yourself - "They've ported." If few Mac open source projects have been ported to a particular platform, blame the users of that platform, not the people who don't use it.

  • by abigor ( 540274 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @02:17PM (#23694637)
    Because a lot of Google people love Unix, and the Mac is the best desktop Unix environment. That's why.

    And do you think Google are so penny-pinchingly cheap that the massive boost in developer productivity they get from using Macs isn't worth the small extra cost over a system running Windows or Linux? Give me a break. What are they spending, maybe $50 000 extra total for the Macs? Google earns that in probably around 5 seconds.

  • by Eighty7 ( 1130057 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @02:24PM (#23694695)

    That's just plain silly. You don't have to have the source code for every tiny little bit on the computer for source code to be useful. Really, how many people need to dink with the kernel, be it Windows, OS X or Linux?
    You really think it's just the kernel? Jobs (goes for ballmer too) has complete control over his platform. Are you going to make all your users pay for 10.5? If he stops supporting Carbon, what can you do?

    My biggest gripe is with repositories. It would be absolutely trivial for MS to set up a repository & kill off 90% of the malware. Apple supposedly cares for its users - an add-remove button like ubuntu's would go a long way towards providing quality applications. I'm sure it's possible to add a repository afterwards, but it's nowhere as easy (popular) as ubuntu's default. When you find yourself having to explain to yet another person that legal, free, world class software actually exists -- remember that you're doing it because you're on someone else's platform & they want to make it difficult because they're in the business of selling proprietary software.
  • by harryman100 ( 631145 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @02:59PM (#23694969) Homepage

    Because a lot of Google people love Unix, and the Mac is the best desktop Unix environment. That's why.
    I'm not sure it's OSX on desktop which is the primary appeal. I own a powerbook because when I bought it, it was the best unix laptop available. On the desktop I still think a more conventional distro of linux is better (but that's my personal opinion).
  • by RiotingPacifist ( 1228016 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @03:13PM (#23695065)
    by that definition mac didnt start on mac.
  • by Tranzistors ( 1180307 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @03:17PM (#23695087)

    Operating systems seem to come with culture. Linux comes with "free" culture, and if one uses Linux (forgive me, RMS), one tends to adapt the culture and consider free soft natural state of things.

    On MacOS, however, the culture goes like "you pay for everything". Apps are crippled and if you need something good - you pay. In this environment you consider being paid for software natural state of things.

    Note, I have never in my life used MacOS. What I have just said is more like theoretical observation.

    On windows front this issue is very unclear. People expect everything for free [articles.tlug.jp], but it should have a price tag, or it is shit.
    I have no idea what developers think there. Do they?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 07, 2008 @03:28PM (#23695181)

    (I do prefer using a terminal to XCode, so emacs and Linux are my thing)
    ... because Macs don't have a terminal and emacs, right?

    Oh wait. They have a terminal, emacs, gcc, perl, shell, python, ruby, and a bunch of command line development tools. So that can't be the reason why linux is your thing, can it?
  • by mario_grgic ( 515333 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @03:33PM (#23695219)
    or does not have any RAW conversion software for any major digital SLR camera manufacturers?

    Thanks but no thanks. With Mac OS X I get the best of both worlds (terminal, UNIX tools, VIM, gcc) but also Photoshop, Final Cut Pro, and Nikon Capture, and all my Epson printers work with no driver installations in Leopard.
     
  • by mdwh2 ( 535323 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @03:41PM (#23695283) Journal
    Agreed, and why don't we see anything in the article about Google employees spending time on open source projects for other platforms? That might be an interesting story, far more so than what platform they happen to write for, but it seems to be yet another case of giving a free advertisement just for Apple.

    Of course, I'd expect MacWorld to focus on the Apple products, but this has misled CNET into thinking that Google has a special focus on the Mac, just because it can list a handful of pet open source projects that Google developers work on in their 20% time.

    The headline should be "Google gets serious about Open Source", not "Google gets serious about the Mac".
  • by larry bagina ( 561269 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @03:44PM (#23695329) Journal

    Apple works hard to ensure that applications written to OS X will not easily be ported to other platforms.

    Just like KDE works hard to ensure that applications written for KDE aren't easily ported to other APIs? And GNOME works hard to ensure that applications written for GTK aren't easily ported to other APIs? And X.org works hard to ensure that applications written for xlib aren't easily ported to other APIs? And Be works hard to ensure that applications written for belib aren't easily ported to other APIs? And Microsoft works hard to ensure that applications written for Win32 aren't easily ported to other APIs? And Sun works hard to ensure that applications written for Swing aren't easily ported to other APIs? And Open Group works hard to ensure that applications written for Motif aren't easily ported to other APIs? And QNX works hard to ensure that applications written for Photon aren't easily ported to other APIs? And Donald Knuth works hard to ensure that documents written for TeX aren't easily ported to other markup languages? And Intel works hard to ensure that x86 assembly code isn't easily ported to other architectures? And Toyota works hard to ensure that gasoline-powered internal combustion engines can't easily run on hydrogen?

  • by Homer1946 ( 1160395 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @05:05PM (#23695967)

    This is why I consider the Mac OSS community to be a bunch of leeches. They've ported most open source unix applications to OS X but to date have given nothing useful back.
    Not that I remotely agree with this statement, but for those in the OSS community that do, why did you choose a license that allows (evil) users to use your code who do not also generate original programs of their own. Why not switch to a license that states that nobody can use your code unless they first release code for their own original project. It would eliminate of large number of those pesky leaches (users).
  • by toddestan ( 632714 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @06:00PM (#23696383)
    So, it's not a Desktop OS because it can't run Photoshop, a $650 professional level package? I might as well make fun of the platform of your choice since it can't run AutoCAD, which means that it's little more than a shiny toy, etc.
  • by Eighty7 ( 1130057 ) on Saturday June 07, 2008 @07:13PM (#23696795)

    I think what you're talking about is centralized package management. I agree Apple should add it into OS X, as they are doing with the iPhone. There is even some indication they might be planning to do so in the future.
    Honestly, I'm not holding my breath. Did you see what apple made of the iphone attempt [slashdot.org]? And it costs $99 to get a cert? I've seen devs on ubuntuforums.org get approached by maintainers wanting to package some minor app for the repository. Apple certainly isn't poor. There's a conflict of interest here.
    And this supports my initial premise that OSS on non-OSS is no fun. (I know you weren't disagreeing with me)

    Package managers on Linux suck for commercial software developers and as a result are pretty much ignored by commercial developers.
    You ask most ubuntu people they'll probably tell you it's working as intended. If it's not free it's not GPL & probably not OSS either. Chances are it's a binary blob & that opens up a host of issues. Is it "zealotry" to actually want control over your own computer?

    ...and installing from a Web page.
    Yeah they're working on it. Did you see the new apt:// protocol [linuxhack3r.com]?
  • Re:Yawn. (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 07, 2008 @08:30PM (#23697225)
    That's why you guys have to keep on working on Linux, get your shit in order (one standard GUI, one standard installation method, one way to code apps). Choice isn't always good.
  • by onefriedrice ( 1171917 ) on Sunday June 08, 2008 @03:57AM (#23698871)
    Exactly. Objective-C is the language, and, oh yeah, it has excellent support in gcc thanks to Apple giving back its improvements in that area.

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