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Comments: 638 +- Technology: Wine 1.0 — Uncorked After 15 Years on Tuesday June 17 2008, @11:58AM
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pshuke writes "After 15 years of development, Wine version 1.0 has been released. Wine is an Open Source implementation of the Windows API on top of X, OpenGL, and Unix. While perfect windows compatibility has not yet been achieved, full support for Photoshop CS2, Excel Viewer 2003, Word Viewer 2003 and PowerPoint Viewer 2003 have been among the goals prior to the release. For further information about supported applications, head over to the appdb. Get it (source) while it's hot."
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Office 2007 runs on Wine 1.0 too. (Score:5, Informative)
You can install and run Microsoft Office 2007.
I do find it a little disappointing that Wine didn't set getting Office 2007 working out of the box as a goal for 1.0, as it really currently just relies upon finishing two DLLs.
Re:Office 2007 runs on Wine 1.0 too. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Office 2007 runs on Wine 1.0 too. (Score:5, Interesting)
getting someone to take the time to learn a new application. Even worse
is asking someone to relearn the same application that they have been using
for over a decade. 2007 completely changes the user interface, which
is not a good thing for the target audience: people that use computers for
document editing. All I hear is people wishing for the "old toolbars" back.
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Re:Office 2007 runs on Wine 1.0 too. (Score:5, Funny)
I can handle that.
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Re:Office 2007 runs on Wine 1.0 too. (Score:5, Insightful)
The situation you provided is very exclusive to a boss who is intelligent enough to realize the difference between MS Office and Open Office and having to work 100% of the year long.
In a normal business year, 99% compatibility is much closer to 1 day something going wrong, assuming your claimed statistics are even worth arguing.
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Re:Office 2007 runs on Wine 1.0 too. (Score:5, Insightful)
Problem solved!
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Re:Office 2007 runs on Wine 1.0 too. (Score:5, Funny)
Telnet. Into a VAX.
They are shown how to do this on their first day. Their coworkers can show them how if they forget. The IT guy will come hold their hands ONE MORE TIME if they still can't handle it. And if all that fails, guess what? Find another job.
If your workplace says "save it as a PDF," your workers will learn to put it in a fucking PDF, even if they whine for the first week. The slowest and stupidest of them will eventually have the steps "save as... PDF!" on a sticky on their monitor and it will get done. It only takes one boss to get 'er done.
For your stupidest customers, guess what you can do? EMBED THE FUCKIN PDF IN A DOC, LOL!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, I recently received a contract from a residential contractor in this exact manner.
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Re:Office 2007 runs on Wine 1.0 too. (Score:5, Interesting)
Not necessarily. It could also mean that only 1 user in 100 will have a problem with it. I've been running Open Office for well over a year without encountering any problems (in Windows, Linux, and FreeBSD) that prevented me from getting my work done.
And as someone else already pointed out, even MS products don't accomplish 100% compatibility. I've had more problems with moving files between different versions of Microsoft Office than between Microsoft Office and Open Office (or different versions of Open Office).
Although of course, your mileage may vary.
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Re:Office 2007 runs on Wine 1.0 too. (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Office 2007 runs on Wine 1.0 too. (Score:5, Informative)
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Perfect windows compatibility? (Score:5, Interesting)
Not slighting them in the least as they have done a Herculean task to get to this point, but i do wish they had made the actual MS office suite a requirement for 1.0, not just the viewers.
Re:Perfect windows compatibility? (Score:5, Informative)
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Next step is to ship this with Linux UMPCs (Score:5, Interesting)
The next step is to encourage the makers of UMPCs to ship Wine with their units. Then users can run some of their legacy apps on the sub-$500 machines.
Should have delayed the release slightly. (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't forget the main commercial sponsor (Score:5, Informative)
It's a small shop and very sympathetic. They also read Slashdot. Jeremy, the CEO, is active here as user jeremy_white [slashdot.org]. Befriend him [slashdot.org] to let his comments show up as +5.
Disclaimer: I'm just a happy customer since version 4 (about 5 years ago).
Great, something to download (Score:5, Funny)
Get it while it's hot? (Score:5, Funny)
winehq slashdotted (Score:5, Funny)
I wonder if they were running IIS through wine to serve the page?
Re:What will interest me is (Score:5, Interesting)
uTorrent already does, last time I checked.
I was debugging a Half-Life crash once and I noticed it checks the registry for Wine keys while starting up, probably for compatibility hacks.
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Re:What will interest me is (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:What will interest me is (Score:5, Interesting)
Quite a few in the non-commerical areana already do list Wine/XP/Vista etc...
However,Wine may be a little late to the game. Virtualization will give us all the features we once needed Wine for if done properly.
The other problem with Wine is the evolution of the Win32/64 API, and how it is slowly being replaced. Vista API technologies are not even on the radar, and have the potential to shake up the next generation of application development. (Search Channel9 on WPF
Microsoft sees a movement away from Win32 before too long, and even current applciations a lot of developers are working on projects that stretch from generic Win32 to fully hybrind Win32/WPF/DirectX all in one application.
If Virtualiation doesn't solve the divide, we still have Wine and Mono, and for any future, some of the backend of the current Linux kernel will need to extend to handle hardware with the same levels of abstraction, or shoving DX to OpenGL will not be enough when some of the core aspects of WPF is based around 3D UI that uses aspects of the OS to schedule and manage the 3D aspects so that two applications don't fight for 3D GPU resources, and currently only Vista's design allows for this.
(Didn't mean for this post to go negative, as there is a congrats to the Wine peeps in order, and even if Wine translation doesn't last forever is meeting a lot of people's needs now.)
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Re:What will interest me is (Score:5, Informative)
But Wine and Mono don't require a commercial license and virtualization does. So while it may "seem" the same while running the application, there is a cost difference (unless you are pirating Windows).
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Re:What will interest me is (Score:5, Informative)
Keep in mind, also, that there's a whole class of people who only need one or two killer apps to work. Sometimes it's something recent (Photoshop); often it's something like an old version of QuickBooks, or some obscure app that no one makes anymore. So if Wine runs legacy apps well, that's a very good start.
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Re:What will interest me is (Score:5, Insightful)
And of course such a program would be pointless anyway. If 'Designed For Windows' apps don't work under Wine then Wine itself has failed its objective.
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Not really (Score:5, Interesting)
And of course such a program would be pointless anyway. If 'Designed For Windows' apps don't work under Wine then Wine itself has failed its objective.
So actually, getting products to say that they are "compatible with Wine 1.0" is the goal. That is also the reason that they are releasing: it gives vendors a stable branch to work with.
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Re:Not really (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:What will interest me is (Score:5, Insightful)
And of course such a program would be pointless anyway. If 'Designed For Windows' apps don't work under Wine then Wine itself has failed its objective.
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Re:What will interest me is (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:What will interest me is (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:FINALLY! (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, and bread.
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Re:FINALLY! (Score:5, Insightful)
It goes great with vintage Windows apps.
Many a true word was said in jest. Back in 1998 I wrote a small Windows program at work (~3000 lines of Turbo Pascal 7.0, Win 3.1) and tested it at home on Wine on Slackware. It worked fine.
Wine is an astonishing project. It deserves a lot of credit.
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Re:FINALLY! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:FINALLY! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Take it step by step (Score:5, Insightful)
Porting a software project can be a very nontrivial task, taking many manyears of work to complete. Few companies are willing to invest this kind of work (and money) for what seems to be a rather small customer base. They could, though, be willing to invest in a few tweaks to make it run on an emulator that would accomplish, from their point of view, the same thing: Letting Linux users use their software.
Companies are usually reluctant to develop for a platform with a small customer base. They do, though, accept making a few tweaks to get a foot into the market.
Currently, the only argument for people to keep using Windows is that Wine can't handle EVERY SINGLE Windows application. When there is no important application left that doesn't run well on Wine, people will more readily switch (Linux+Wine == Windows, from a user's point of view, but about 100-300 bucks cheaper).
And THEN it's time to ask software companies to develop for Linux, with it being the bigger market.
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Re:FINALLY! (Score:5, Interesting)
With WINE, Microsoft officially loses control over their Windows API. It's like IBM with the ISA vs. MCA architectures around the 286 era. Microsoft desperately wants to move to something else, ANYTHING else, so that they can maintain control of their API, so that developers have to write to the Microsoft API, and so that customers still have to buy Windows.
But if there is a WINE that is reasonably stable, that's no longer the case. Case in point: I develop a cross-platform application with PHP-GTK, which has been ported over using the Win32 API. I can write software that's immediately usable on Windows, Macintosh, and *nix. But I haven't released an actual installer for *nix, simply because nobody's asked for one. And if I decide that I want to support *nix, I have to go with at least one of two options:
1) Pick a distro or five and build packages for each every time I issue a new release. (as often as weekly!) This is pretty much a guaranteed FAIL since everybody has their own fav distro...
2) Release a Windows installer and test it against WINE to ensure reasonable compatibility.
I'm going with option 2 for now. Note that I prefer this even when using a toolkit that's natively a *nix toolkit. It's not because I don't love *nix, it's because I have no desire whatsoever to deal with customers who are often barely competent to turn their computer(s) on and try to get them to recompile ANYTHING.
Win WINE, the most successful development platform in existence becomes an open-source platform, and will quickly deflate the Microsoft monopoly. Microsoft has no choice, simply because the very thing that's kept them in the business (the massive base of WinXX applications) now becomes the very thing that they cannot abandon.
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Re:FINALLY! (Score:5, Interesting)
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/240770 [launchpad.net]
Please add your thoughts as a developer to the bug. Thanks.
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Re:FINALLY! (Score:5, Insightful)
I am writing you to inform you that even though you only write Windows apps, I (somewhat) successfully managed to get it to run on my Linux operating system. Please start making a Linux version of this application post haste so you can not gain a customer (I have already hacked your app to run in linux) and increase your development costs. An added perk is the fact that you will be required to support the Linux version rather than just telling me to "run it in Windows" when I call. The extra staff you hire for your support center should help the unemployment rate.
Thanks Again,
A Wine User
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Re:FINALLY! (Score:5, Funny)
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I would really like to try this out (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:I would really like to try this out (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:I would really like to try this out (Score:5, Interesting)
Remote desktop is kind of a joke in comparison.
Remote desktop is just better. Vastly more usable on low-bandwidth (or high latency) links and when your session drops out for some reason you can reconnect and not have lost everything you were working on.
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Re:I would really like to try this out (Score:5, Informative)
Remote desktop is kind of a joke in comparison.
Remote desktop is just better. Vastly more usable on low-bandwidth (or high latency) links and when your session drops out for some reason you can reconnect and not have lost everything you were working on.
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Re:I would really like to try this out (Score:5, Informative)
X is not a giant frame buffer. It has vector operations, combined with raster operations.
X11 is a wrong option over high latency links because it is designed to provide a very high performance at low latency ones.
For high latency links, use NX which is much faster than VNC + compression (being VNC a giant frame buffer, is faster than X11 because the latency issues).
NX does compression, but most importantly solves the latency issues by cumulating requests avoiding roundtrips.
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Re:I would really like to try this out (Score:5, Funny)
16 bit and 64 bit = bloods n crips.
--Toll_Free
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Re:I would really like to try this out (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:I would really like to try this out (Score:5, Informative)
There actually is a win32 binary version of wine that runs in cygwin. They say it was created as an additional test of the code's portability, and for some other reasons that I can't remember right now. Funny but TRUE!
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Re:I would really like to try this out (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:I would really like to try this out (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:FINALLY! (Score:5, Insightful)
the same can be said of Windows....
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Re:Let me be the first to say.... (Score:5, Funny)
If you wanted to be truly the first to say, you should have tried something more like: "Hold the newsreader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers."
reference [youtube.com]
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