$50 to Get XP On a New Dell

CWmike writes "Dell will charge customers up to $50 for factory-installed Windows XP on some PCs after Wednesday, according to the company's Web site. Buyers of the low-priced Vostro line of desktops and notebooks will pay $20 to $50 more for Windows XP Professional installed as a 'downgrade' from Windows Vista Business or Vista Ultimate than they would for Vista only."

It's Twitter, Slashdot Duped Again!

[Anonymous Coward]

This story is a cut and paste job from Twitter's journal [slashdot.org], made within two hours of the twitter post. CWMike must be another Twitter sock puppet and this story is just more hysterical FUD about Vista [slashdot.org].

A respectable number

[tepples]

Didn't you hear? There are now 42 games for Linux.

And once you include all the free-and-Free games in Ubuntu's repository, you have more games than were released for the Atari 7800 (60 titles) [wikipedia.org] and Virtual Boy (22) [wikipedia.org] put together. And no, not all of them are just Tetris clones [pineight.com] either.

Re:Wasting money

[LWATCDR]

How bad is Vista? Well that depends. The UAC does break a good amount of software that works just fine on XP.
Also the journal playback doesn't work with the UAC turned on. It was a security issue but it is also how some programs did simple macros and allowed you to create applications that pushed text into other windows apps.
Also the USB system seems to have some bugs in it.
Also the sound system can be really odd at times. Some computers produce really crappy sound if you record at less than 16 bit 22 khz stereo. That shouldn't be an issue for just recording voice.
It does use more disk space and memory than XP.
It is also different and often it seems like it is different not to be better but to just be different.
So as you have put it if you turn off all the extras then it isn't that bad.
But if you turn off all the extras is it any better than XP?
That is what makes Vista so bad. It really is a lot to some pain for little to no gain.
XP works as well as Vista, uses less resources, and everybody knows most of it's quirks and problems. I feel that Vista is a case of not worth it. And what I find shocking is that most of the normal users out there feel the same way.
 

Re:Wasting money

[Rary]

So the question is, from what I understand, if you turn off all the extras, Vista is not that bad. I don't suppose I can get an unbiased assessment on slashdot, though. Is it really that buggy? More than XP?

There are a handful of people here on Slashdot who actually like Vista and admit it. I'm one of them.

I haven't turned off any of the extras. Regarding the eye candy, they did an awesome job. It's a slick looking user interface. Regarding performance, it runs beautifully on my Acer laptop (1.6 GHz dual core, 2 GB RAM, GeForce Go7300).

The biggest annoyance for me is the automatic horizontal scrolling in the folder pane of Windows Explorer. I absolutely hate it and want to turn it off, but there is no option.

I've only encountered two actual bugs, and they were both extremely minor. One of them I only encountered once, and can't actually remember what it is right now. The other is just a small bug that occurs when you create a new folder and then try to rename it too quickly.

Overall, I'm happy with it.

Re:other side of the coin

[merreborn]

As opposed to buying a copy of XP from someone else for $150?

It's $99 if you buy OEM.

bargain

[ihatethetv]

After going through a nightmare trying--"how hard can it be?"--to find XP drivers for an HP F763NR a few weeks ago this looks like a bargain. Amazing, they've made it as hard to find win xp drivers for some devices as it is to find linux drivers. Nice work folks! -G

Or free on the Latitudes, Optiplex, Precision

[lazy-ninja]

Yes, on the Vostros it costs money. If you are buying the (far better) latitudes it is a free upgrade/downgrade.

Re:XP crashes apps minutes after installing

[furrydave]

If it was an HP, then it's not XP's fault. HP, especially their 2000 series laptops, do not have any drivers for XP. Or rather, they don't work. I have Vista on my HP 2000 laptop, and Ubuntu 8.04. Both work great. XP just isn't worth the hassle to try to install because the drivers aren't there. Now on my desktop, I have all 3 installed, and I've never run into a situation where my PC ran better in Vista then it did in XP. XP is just faster and more solid then Vista. Ubuntu cleans house over both MS products...

Re:So, That's how Vista got to be #1...

[FriendComputer]

I actually spoke with my company's Dell sales rep just a few days ago about this, since we have software that just doesn't run under Vista and we haven't been able to figure out why.

As I understand it, Dell's agreement with MS says that after June 30 they are no longer allowed to ship versions of Windows other than Vista. When you buy a new Dell you'll get a Vista license regardless, but if you pay the extra $50 Dell will sell you and pre-install an XP license onto the PC and just stuff Vista into the box.

The real villain here is MS, not Dell. They're actually being pretty reasonable considering the extra process they're having to maintain.

Hello! You get both operating systems.

[Anonymous Coward]

Look folks, the reason for the extra $50 is simple. You get both Vista AND XP.

I know it's a lot more fun to misinterpret the summary, then comment on your misinterpretation. But if you actually RTFA, it's not so sensational.

Re:$50 for assurance of less headache ?

[cjb658]

According to this [microsoft.com], business and ultimate are eligable for a free downgrade to XP Professional:

Rights to OEM versions of systems software are granted in the OEM License Terms. The OEM License Terms for most OEM versions of systems software do not grant downgrade rights. The exception is the OEM License Terms for the Windows® XP Professional operating system and the Windows Vistaâ Business and Windows Vista Ultimate operating systems, which grant downgrade rights. See the full text of the OEM License Terms for the specific downgrade rights.

Re:It's like divorce

[smitty97]

Doesnt surprise me, Halo was originally demoed at MacWorld- it was supposed to be a Mac game.

Re:Hello! You get both operating systems.

[the_B0fh]

I don't know what kind of morons are moderating, but how in the hell did this get modded informative?

Microsoft licenses have always been downgradable. And nothing stops you from installing the un-downgraded OS once you decide not to use the downgrade anymore. This has always been the case.

So now, they're making you pay more, and *YOU* are misinterpreting it. You do not get both vista and XP. Go ahead and install that copy of vista on another system, why don't you, and then go talk to Microsoft's licensing department and see what they tell you.

Re:It's like divorce

[morgan_greywolf]

Nice the generic windows diss... My only question is, What of us gamers running win boxes that are rock solid? And have never had anything but a rock solid box? Aside from the odd hardware failures that is... ;)

DirectX is a fantastic API that allows developers to effectively bypass some pretty piss-poor Win32 APIs. Games are written for DirectX, not for Windows. The fact is that DirectX runs in other environments, like Xbox and Xbox360. If all you're doing is gaming, then you shouldn't be surprised if your box is 'rock solid.'

Re:Hello! You get both operating systems.

[CastrTroy]

I don't think it's MS that is charging you more. I think it's Dell, who is charging you for the work involved in doing the downgrade. You could do it at home by yourself, without incurring any extra cost.

Re:Hello! You get both operating systems.

[Jason Earl]

These people are paying an extra $50 off of the most expensive versions of Vista so that they can run Windows XP. People that are willing to pay a premium to run XP are not excited about the fact that they get Vista as well.

Seriously, if these thought that Vista was worth running, they'd save their $50 and run Vista. There is essentially no way to spin this that is good for Microsoft or Vista. Heck, downgrading to Windows XP on most computers of the Vostro line (which ship with Vista Home Basic by default) adds $150 to the price tag.

Sometimes

[InvisiBill]

http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/2/3/d23b9533-169d-4996-b198-7b9d3fe15611/downgrade_chart.doc [microsoft.com]

Rights to OEM versions of systems software are granted in the OEM License Terms. The OEM License Terms for most OEM versions of systems software do not grant downgrade rights. The exception is the OEM License Terms for the Windows® XP Professional operating system and the Windows Vistaâ Business and Windows Vista Ultimate operating systems, which grant downgrade rights. See the full text of the OEM License Terms for the specific downgrade rights.

Re:It's like divorce

[Dekortage]

That's because Bungie was originally a Mac-only game developer. Then MS bought 'em for Halo, and nixed all their Mac development.

Re:It's like divorce

[ckaminski]

Sorry, I used it, on brand new hardware with shit-gobs of memory. Vista is a dog. I like what they were trying to do with it, and liked a lot of the UI enhancements, but I bought a fast laptop to get work done, not wait for windows to pop open.

Re:It's like divorce

[jobsagoodun]

>In retrospect I think it was the Golgafrincham B Ark of Microsoft developers,

Thank-you. I just laughed maltesers all over my monitor.

Re:It's like divorce

[IllForgetMyNickSoonA]

Why not? It's running on Linux (wine resp. cedega).

At least it's sort of running, but it's better than nothing! :-)

Re:Hello! You get both operating systems.

[SPickett]

Look folks, the reason for the extra $50 is simple. You get both Vista AND XP.

I think you're wrong.

I'm trying to buy a Dell laptop today. Here are my operating system options:
Genuine Windows® XP Professional, SP2 with Media add $0
Genuine Windows Vista® Business Bonus-Windows® XP Professional loaded [Included in Price]
Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate Bonus-Windows® XP Professional loaded [add $50]
Genuine Windows Vista® Business Service Pack 1, With media add $0 (Dell Recommended)
Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate Service Pack 1, With media [add $50]

You'll notice that (1) XP loaded, (2) Vista Business loaded, and (3) XP loaded plus Vista Business on media are all the same price. It sounds like beginning tomorrow either of the XP options will carry an additional charge.

Re:Hello! You get both operating systems.

[Jason Earl]

You really are a clueless idiot.

I'm crushed. Here's what I said.

These people are paying an extra $50 off of the most expensive versions of Vista so that they can run Windows XP

What I meant to say was that these people are paying an extra $50 "on top of" the most expensive version of Vista. It's possible that this mistake is why you got so worked up. The basic idea is that it doesn't make sense to pay an extra $50 to have Windows XP installed if what you really want to do is run Windows Vista. Especially considering the fact that Dell probably doesn't include Windows Vista installation media with these computers.

Here's your response:

WRONG! When you buy Vista Business or Ultimate (note: Business costs the same as XP Pro), you are entitled to downgrade the system yourself. Dell are offering their "downgrade services" for $50. This is not M$ ripping you off, it's Dell offering you to downgrade for an extra fee. Dell offer to re-configure your computer's Boot Sequence for $5, they offer to remove unwanted applications for a few bucks, and there are probably more customisation things which i cant remember. Dell is probably being forced down the Vista road, but while the downgrade loophole exists, they are cashing in. You can downgrade yourself & save $50.

This has essentially nothing to do with anything I wrote. Sure, it's nice to know that you can purchase Vista Ultimate or Vista Business and downgrade yourself to Windows XP. Of course, you'd have to have a copy of the installation materials (which you wouldn't get from Dell), and you would also be on your own for support.

Please note I never said that Dell was not "ripping you off." Dell is just trying to cover the cost of supporting yet another Microsoft operating system on its hardware. Once again, my point is that if these people wanted Vista they wouldn't be paying extra to have it removed and have Windows XP installed. So the fact that they also have the right to install Vista on the machine can hardly be considered a bonus.

Heck, they have the right to put FreeDOS on the machine as well. Not that anyone cares.

I continued with:

downgrading to Windows XP on most computers of the Vostro line (which ship with Vista Home Basic by default) adds $150 to the price tag.

WRONG AGAIN. "Most computers of the Vostro line" ship with Vista Business. Although there are exceptions, the Vostro line is built for Small Business. And, you can't "downgrade" from Home Basic. Vista Home Basic = XP Home. XP Home != XP Pro. Hence the price of upgrading to XP/Vista Business.

Actually, you are wrong. I checked Dell's website and of the 6 laptops in the Vostro line and the first 4 include either Vista Home Basic or XP Home in the base price. I didn't check the last two because I started to realize that I was reliving an XKCD.com cartoon.

In short, you are a moron. Buy a copy of Vista Business. It costs the same as XP Pro, and it entitles you to a downgrade to XP Pro. To me, thats 1 copy of XP Pro, until Vista becomes good enough, when I can upgrade to Vista Business for free.

If you honestly think that people are going to pay Dell $50 plus an upgrade to Vista Business from Vista Home Basic (which is what these machines generally ship with by default) so that they can later install Vista Business themselves (probably losing any software support on the computer in the process) then you are clearly delusional. I'm glad you think I am a moron. If someone with your lack of mental capacity agreed with me I would be concerned.

Re:Hello! You get both operating systems.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just so no one else sees the parent post and thinks "But the OEM version is tied to a motherboard after activation." like I did, the OEM version for OEMs is different than the OEM versions for real people. Blame MS' shitty labeling practices.