Best Way To Get Back a Stolen Computer? 482
davidphogan74 writes "I have some stolen computers checking in with a server we have (software pre-loaded), and I have full access to the systems. What's the best way to deal with this situation? The local police (to the theft) have been contacted several times and seem to be clueless. I personally have no financial interest in these computers, I just don't like atom-thieves. What's the best way to handle knowing the IPs, email addresses, MySpace sites, the Google login, etc. when working with law enforcement? The officer I spoke with (who genuinely seemed to care) didn't know an IP address from a mailing address, so I called others. Nobody cared. Anyone have any ideas?"
Go to a lawyer (Score:5, Insightful)
Speak with a lawyer that has knowledge and interest in this situation. The fact that a successful prosecution may bring a lot of publicity to the guy may be enough to help him work for free, or the company that is losing the computers may post his retainer.
What is your relation to all of this? As with any civil case, the police are not going to be a driving force to pursue the theft; your company or the people that lost it should be making sure things get done.
I wouldn't expect police to know anything about IP, MAC addresses, login tracing, etc., but a lawyer would. Then, what a lawyer can do is go to a judge saying, "We have solid evidence that person at IP x.x.x.x which is Verizon ISP registered to address ___ main street., also cross confirming with name at myspace profile _____, is using stolen property."
A warrant will then be issued, and the police can go to the house and retrieve the laptop, and interview the guy, who will doubtlessly say "I bought it from _____ on the street, I thought it was legit." You will surely get your computer back, and if you find a motherlode of computers, he will surely go to jail.
Use a phone analogy? (Score:5, Insightful)
Find out where the gear is physically (Score:5, Insightful)
My advice is to find out where the gear is physically, then call the sympathetic cop back.
If you cannot find that out, you cannot expect them to. I would take the IP address and contact the ISP that serves it. If they won't help you, get the cop to do it.
An obvious question is, do these computers have built in cameras that can be turned on remotely ? That might produce useful info.
You might also be able to read the thieves' email. If you do that long enough, I bet you will get their names and addresses.
Escalate the Issue to the FBI (Score:5, Insightful)
You may want to escalate the matter to a different law enforcement agency, such as the FBI. They should be more responsive to this sort of thing, especially if you describe it as data theft, rather than property theft, as surely your company's computers that were stolen were loaded with company data.
If you live in a small county with elected/appointed law enforcement agents, perhaps you should raise this issue the next time they're up for re-election. If you live in a larger city, perhaps you should contact your city councilor about the issue and request that your city's police force be modernized for the 21st century.
You should avoid doing anything yourself, as you can land yourself in legal trouble. If you insist on doing something yourself, get legal advice first to ensure you aren't going to cause more trouble for yourself in the process.
Take a picture (Score:2, Insightful)
haunt that box .. (Score:2, Insightful)
A couple suggestions... (Score:2, Insightful)
If you have the IP addresses, you should be able to contact the ISP to determine where they might be. The ISP might even have a contact with the local police who does have a clue, since they have to deal with people stealing equipment too.
Also, if you have email addresses and similar information, you may be able to use some "social engineering" to get the thieves to give you their address or a land line number you can use to do a reverse lookup.
It will take some work either way. Unfortunately, there seems to be an attitude that has developed over the past couple of decades that property crimes aren't a big deal, just let the insurance pay for it. I disagree. It *is* a big deal. Thieves need to be caught, stopped and punished.
find the right people to talk with (Score:5, Insightful)
talk to the police chief in the town, talk with the local sheriff. If you can't get satisfaction, talk with the local newspaper. Also try the county judge, they may give you some insight on how to motivate the law on that area.
Be sure to keep meticulous records on IP addresses, dates, times, etc. Find out what ISP they are using and contact them. They will very likely tell you they cannot give YOU information, but they probably will give this information to the police/sheriff. Make sure that happens before their records are rotated and wiped. It may be necessary for them to fax the ISP a request or get it in writing, again make sure this process moves forward, keep tabs on progress and that it doesn't be come a "we didn't have time to bother".
There are other creative ideas you could employ. Put a script on the laptop that emails the county judge once an hour saying "hello from stolen laptop located in your district. Just a reminder for you that your law enforcement has yet to recover this identified stolen property after having been notified of its location." Be sure it CCs the local sheriff/police chief. If you know the mayor or governor's email address, that makes a good CC also.
If they ask you to stop the emails, refuse. Sorry that laptop's been stolen. Maybe you should go get it for me and I'll turn off the script?
Call the DA... (Score:5, Insightful)
Call your district attorney's office. They love this kind of stuff, honestly - and they'll be happy to track down thieves with the assistance of law enforcement.
If the computers have been taken across state lines - you may be able to contact the FBI as well.
If they can get on the front page with a table full of stolen gear - they'll be really happy.
Re:You need to use the police to get the ISP's inf (Score:5, Insightful)
Then befriend the thief over a couple weeks and get all the personal info you can (phone #, maybe even address, etc..)
Then just call the cops with a physical address and tell them the person committed grand theft [wikipedia.org] of company property, and that you suspect they have the stolen property at their residence.
Re:Obvious Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
These are thieves. They're likely already using stolen credit card/identities. Taking that data and posting it publicly would probably just harm an innocent person.
Re:Go to a lawyer (Score:4, Insightful)
Mod parent up. What is the point of paying taxes to fund law enforcement if anybody who is the victim of a crime has to mount their own investigation and civil prosecution. Maybe if cops spent less time enforcing laws that 95% of people disagree with (copyright enforcement, speed traps, etc) they'd have time to actually solve crimes that people thing ought to be solved...
Re:Setup a fake myspace page..... (Score:4, Insightful)
i.e. it's completely fictitious and you don't want people laughing at you.
Re:You need to use the police to get the ISP's inf (Score:5, Insightful)
The ISP can tell you who is at an IP address
Uhh, no the ISP can not tell OP who is at an IP address and I would hope that you don't really expect that would really happen under any circumstances. An ISP isn't going to turn over personally identifying information with out a judges (or at least a sworn Law Enforcement Officers's) signature.
To answer the question: You found a guy who cares, you just need to get him to understand the evidence you have and how to follow the trail the point that he's willing to take action. Giving up in talking to him won't solve your problem. Calling him clueless won't either.
Re:Obvious Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
You seem to live in a world where all thieves are super-thieves and there's a distinct absence of random stupid idiot thieves... must be nice!
They walked off with a computer. That doesn't automatically make them geniuses. If they were, the first thing to do would have been to wipe the disk and start over. There are TONS of phone-home apps on the market, any semi-professional thief would know this.
Re:Treat it as an Open Source problem (Score:5, Insightful)
That's both +5 funny and +5 insightful. If only more people would understand how clueless their "if you don't like it the source code is right there" attitude can be.
Does it have an old-school modem? (Score:4, Insightful)
On the off chance that it does, and the even off-er chance that it's plugged in... have it call your telephone and read the Caller ID back.
How about a microphone? Turn it on and spy on them.
How about a camera? Ditto.
Wifi card? Sniff the area and see if you can't figure out who his neighbours are. Hotels, Starbucks, etc.
Or, put a squid box on the 'net and send all his HTTP through it. Then trolls through his HTTP traffic and try and figure who he is.
Go back to the officer who cared (Score:3, Insightful)
Go back to the police officer who wanted to help you. You can teach someone who cares.
You cannot make someone care.
Explain to him that it's kind of like LoJack - but you need some court orders to get the physical location information broken loose.
Walk him through the information you have, and what business entities can turn that information into physical-space addresses.
If you have IP addresses, MySpace and Google logins, you probably have enough information to identify the people in current possession of the laptop.
He can work with the DA to get appropriate court orders to turn logins into names and addresses without fully understanding any of it.
Re:Go to a lawyer (Score:1, Insightful)
Supporting the assassin of President Lincoln makes you a real ugly, vicious and disgusting warped puppy. A damn shame that you have the right to post hate speech - but lack the sense not to do so.
Your logical skills, they need work.
Hint: he is making a value judgment about the nature of patriotism, not about the crime of Booth.
Re:You have remote root? A few ideas :-) (Score:4, Insightful)
...and then you'll realize that the computer was resold, the thief is long gone, and you've been harassing and invading the privacy of an innocent person.
Re:You have remote root? A few ideas :-) (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Go to a lawyer (Score:3, Insightful)
If you have the evidence on your side, and the defendant doesn't really have much of a defense, you're probably going to win. Chance doesn't have too much to do with it.
A fairy tale. Regardless of evidence or how you feel about the strength of your case, once you enter a court room you will have no idea what the outcome will be. Justice is blind, and depending on any number of things you will have no control over, you can lose your shirt just trying to get your shirt back. The court system is not perfect and its not science and no one can guarantee a verdict ever. In fact, it'd be more correct statistically to say you will always lose in court. Court is the last place anyone wants to be, and any lawyer worth his salt will spend more time keeping out of court than assuming he's going to win in court just because he thinks his evidence is strong. Many times a plaintiffs position is much stronger before he ever enters court, and settlements are far more lucritive than the speculation of winning a case.
Go to court when its your last hope, not as your first plan of action.
Re:Cops get a warrant. (Score:2, Insightful)
That would work great if you could get the police to act. But, in the case of a property crime that occurred when no officer was present, that's hard to make happen. That's the core of the problem.
You can hand an officer the name, address, and social security number of the thief, along with his current location and a full description, and the chances are he'll just send you to the station to file a report.
As for getting someone to get a court order to match an IP address with a name, and then a warrant...that's a pretty low-probability outcome.
a little more context... (Score:3, Insightful)
For starters, I'm absolutely NO fan of our country's zeal to prosecute drug users. Our prisons are bloated with people who are mostly there because they chose illicit narcotics to self-medicate psychiatric illnesses.
As for beat-cops, their careers progress based on their metrics. Every arrest they make resulting in conviction boosts their stats and they get closer to promotion. Drug crimes are the low-hanging fruit. Possession is difficult evidence to refute in court. And a bunch of states have mandatory sentencing laws focused on putting people in prison for possessing small quantities of narcotics.
In this environment, a car search can easily escalate into a possession / trafficking charge, and the defendant is likely to roll on other people to avoid hard time, which will result in further arrests and convictions for the cops & detectives involved with VERY little legwork. Compare that to a breaking & entering case where the culprit stole just barely enough loot to make it a felony. Lots of legwork and the judge is likely going to let the guy walk with probation because the jails are filled with all the drug convictions. Since it was wholly conceived and executed by the perpetrator, there's not even much chance the guy will roll on accomplices, etc.
I don't use drugs, and I wish our country would lay off those who do. It kills me that my taxes are going to pay for the 20-year incarceration of this guy who got busted with seven grams of cocaine in Hays County [statesman.com]. That's the equivalent to the weight of seven paperclips. Meanwhile, spouse abusers and burglars get probation...
Seth