KDE 4.1 Released, Reviewed 475
StoneLion writes "After months of development and controversy, the KDE project announced the release of KDE 4.1 today. Linux.com (a Slashdot sister site) took a hands-on look at the new code, and reviewer Jeremy LaCroix says, 'KDE 4.1 simply rocks.'" Bruce Byfield's review is quite positive, as well.
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:3, Informative)
Remember folks (Score:2, Informative)
KDE doesn't need you and has no obligation to do anything [livejournal.com] for you.
Answered my own question: (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.kde.org/download/#v4.1 [kde.org]
Nvidia cards (Score:3, Informative)
"...users with Nvidia graphics cards and proprietary drivers may notice slowdown when resizing windows or moving plasma widgets, although I did not experienced this during tests with my Nvidia hardware."
Closer, but not quite there yet. Small problems like this are what is holding it back. However, with that said, I, for one, can't wait to get my hands on this.
Kubuntu Packages (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Nvidia cards (Score:5, Informative)
It is definitely worth downloading and I say it is more then sufficient to replace KDE 3.5
Re:My one erk with KDE 4 (Score:5, Informative)
Please provide an option to disable the upper right cashew.
Although putting an option to disable the cashew for desktops sounds reasonable, from a coding point of view it would introduce unnecessary complexity and would break the design. What has been suggested is, since the destkop itself (a containment) is handled by plugins, to write a plugin that would draw the desktop without the cashew itself. Currently some work ("blank desktop" plugin) is already present in KDE SVN. With containment type switching expected by KDE 4.2, it is not unreasonable to see alternative desktop types developed by then.
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:5, Informative)
Some screencasts on Plasma features (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Nvidia cards (Score:5, Informative)
Use this setting:
nvidia-settings -a InitialPixmapPlacement=2 -a GlyphCache=1
Using this trick, resize becomes snappy.
Re:Nvidia cards (Score:5, Informative)
I reply to mysel: to make this change permanent, I created a file called: /etc/X11/xinit.d/20nvidia-te-acceleration
which contains:
#!/bin/sh
if [ -x /usr/bin/nvidia-settings ]; then /usr/bin/nvidia-settings -a InitialPixmapPlacement=2 -a GlyphCache=1
fi
Re:But ... does it run linux? (Score:4, Informative)
but does it run on windows?
actually... somewhat [kde.org]. Not the desktop environment itself, I dont think, but KDE applications. I wasnt able to get it to work when i tried it a few months ago. it might be working better now.
Pros and cons of KDE 4.1 (Score:4, Informative)
* KDE 4.1 Plasma panels are now resizable and you can have multiple , and they can be repositioned by dragging them by mouse.
* "The Folder View plasmoid
* The article raves about the beauty of KDE4.1.
* Application support has grown and out-of-the-download contains Konqueror, Dolphin, Gwenview, Kopete, JuK, Kontact, the KDE CD Player, and the minimalistic Dragon Player for videos
* Dolphin has been improved with tree view and tabbed browsing features.
* Is is faster than KDE4.0, "everything ran fast and smooth, even when I had six plasmoids in use and desktop effects turned on, even on a modest 1.6GHz laptop".
* "The new interfaces may take some getting used to by those accustomed to KDE 3. "
* "Nvidia graphics cards
* Amarok 2.0 is still not complete
The article is finished by saying that the author has finally replaced KDE3 as his production DE with KDE4.1.
In short, whether by design or by listening to the criticism, KDE4.1 seems to have addressed if not all then at least the most important warts of the unfortunate 4.0 release. I'll probably still wait for 4.2, but as a KDE fan I'm certainly excited!
Power management? Decent WiFi controls? (Score:5, Informative)
I've got to say, Kubuntu Hardy with KDE4 was extremely disappointing. Neither Ubuntu nor KDE provided a functional wifi manager - The Network Settings application shared by many Ubuntu desktops couldn't write a interfaces file that preserved WEP keys, and was insanely cludgy. Steal some code from Maemo, people.
More KDE4 specific, using it stripped me of any sort of effective GUI-based power management. Hibernation, sleeping, and battery usage controls were completely absent. All it brought to the table was a (commonplace and unimpressive) battery monitor.
I enjoy using KDE4, but I really hope they're getting their acts together with this release, so far as laptops go.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Fedora (Score:1, Informative)
I know I'm probably in the minority running Fedora instead of an Ubuntu release but I'm thoroughly unimpressed with the Fedora Project in keeping up with something like this. The KDE 4.1 release is sitting in rawhide like a coiled snake waiting to pounce, and what happens when I install it? It fails on a series of icons. Who does that?? And to RingDev, you're absolutely right KDE isn't an O/S and Windows isn't either. Windows is a GUI that sits on an unstable CLI, they just hide it more/better.
Re:Nvidia cards (Score:4, Informative)
For the record: I managed to sort out all my nvidia speed issues by loading XGL instead of AIGLX. Because XGL masks away the card itself and presents a generic interface, it worked around the nvidia driver issues very well. None of the other tricks made much difference for me.
Re:Firefox 3? (Score:5, Informative)
I also use an Oxygen icon theme for Firefox, since that program doesn't change any icons.
The scrollbar bug doesn't happen for me, not entirely sure under what conditions it happens, it's also possible that it has been fixed in newer version of that software or only happened with FF2.
KDE41: my experience (Score:5, Informative)
So far I've had the following issues/nags/etc:
* Using the resize on the upper right of the new menu instantly made the default size *bigger*, which isn't what I wanted, and there was no way to resize back to even its default size.
* Input Actions don't work at all. Yes, the action and the group it's in are not disabled, and KHotKeys daemon is activated from Global Settings. No key combos work.
* The main panel glitched out and everything was horribly spaced out when I tried to add and remove widgets from it; I had to completely recreate a new panel to fix it.
* While it's not exactly slow, it does have several slow redraw issues (e.g. the classic launcher menu) and I've seen it lag at random times much more than KDE3 ever did. I know this is probably to be expected, but it's worth noting. No, I don't use desktop effects (compositing), as I've seen that slows things down much more in general (games, etc) than it helps with desktop elements.
* System Settings crashed on me on more than one occasion.
Overall, much better than the completely unusable 4.0, but they still have a long way to go to make KDE4 even remotely stable.
Re:Nvidia cards (Score:4, Informative)
Closer, but not quite there yet. Small problems like this are what is holding it back. However, with that said, I, for one, can't wait to get my hands on this.
There was a lot of discussion about this, the KDE developers eventually decided NOT to fix these issues themselves because they are due to broken drivers, basically you either have to apply those config changes or hope NVidia improves their drivers.
I can't imagine how those drivers got so messed up, I've heard that any desktop effects are painfully slow on brand new NVidia cards, yet I'm sitting here running KDE4.1 with a 64MB GeForce 4 MX (which is like 5-6 years old I think) and it runs very fast...
Ugh. (Score:4, Informative)
STILL can't hide system tray icons?
This is a big problem for me. I don't have a widescreen monitor, so the system tray is taking over the panel, squeezing my task bar to a frustratingly small size.
KDE3 has an excellent system tray icon hiding mechanism. Why does KDE4 make me look at them all, all the time?
Re:Why does anyone care about the 'desktop'? (Score:4, Informative)
The various hotkey launch bars are the usable start menu and the better answer. Press hotkey. Type (part of) application or file name. Hit Enter. App launches or file opens.
Launchy is the one I am using:
http://www.launchy.net/#download [launchy.net]
Tastes seem to differ quite a bit for this type of app, there are dozens of alternatives (and apparently some similar functionality is built into Vista).
And yes, they got popular with Quicksilver on the Mac.
Re:Ugh. (Score:3, Informative)
I follow the KDE panel development mailing lists and blogs so I read just this week that the System tray hiding is going into the KDE SVN or is already in. I don't know if it will be backported to a KDE 4.1.1, but it is a definite for 4.2.
Re:Remember folks (Score:5, Informative)
According to the article Troy (the one who wrote the blog post you're referring to) already apologised [livejournal.com] for it:
Also note that this is just one person, they are not representative of the entire KDE4 dev community. Secondly, note from that apology blog post, that Troy -- I keep wanting to write McLure -- Unrau has stopped working on KDE, so your point is not only inaccurate but untimely.
I agree with the Funny mod though.
Re:Remember folks is Flamebait (Score:4, Informative)
I'd mod AC down, but poisonous propaganda like this deserves a rebuttal.
From the link provided So if you are one of these poisonous users who offer no thanks for the time, energy and skill that goes into creating KDE, please go away. Find another project to harass (preferably closed source) as we've had enough of it. That is a totally appropriate response to toxic personalities.
Furthermore, entities that exchange software for money need licensees, better known as users up to a certain point. Entities that write software for their own pleasure have no such need. So, literally speaking, KDE doesn't "need" users.
Finally, KDE 4.1 is great. I'm running it on an old Thinkpad t21 just fine. The packages are in debian experimental, which have no dependency issues if you are running Lenny. Also worth noting, Lenny is **very** reliable for production and desktop use right now.
Re:I love Linux but... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Fedora 9 packages? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What is a plasmoid? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:KDE's one stupid, fatal flaw (Score:4, Informative)
I'd use KDE happily & lovingly if only I could disable the damn "tap-to-click" on my trackpad!
Isn't that an X-Windows problem, rather than a KDE problem? Anyway, here are the notes that I jotted down last time I dealt with it (not sure where I got my info):
Edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf to turn off conversion of a tap on the
touchpad into a left mouse click (begs for accidents):
Option "TapButton" "0"
Option "MaxTapMove" "0"
Option "MaxTapTime" "0"
Note that some people recommend also doing:
Option "HorizScrollDelta" "0"
Option "VertScrollDelta" "0"
Re:Why does anyone care about the 'desktop'? (Score:3, Informative)
On the Windows box at work I installed Launchy, removed nearly every option from the start menu to make it as streamlined as possible on the odd occasion I DO need to use it and have been running that way for months. For a little extra sanity I made three folders on the desktop to group up applications that aren't in the start menu (like a Resonate Central Dispatch application). I've clicked on the folders less than ten times in three months. I've clicked on the start menu exactly twice.
Once you even halfway know what you want to access on a system there's no need to rely on a cumbersome piece of design like a start menu.
For KDE 3.x there's Katapult. For Gnome there's Gnome-Do. For KDE 4.x there's Krunner (or whatever it's called, just hit Alt-F2). Learn them and love them.
Re:Nvidia cards (Score:4, Informative)
One difference is that we're doing lots of stuff using an ARGB visual (ie. true translucency). It seems these code paths haven't really been tested.
Re:Why does anyone care about the 'desktop'? (Score:4, Informative)
Just because you threw a bunch of paper all over your desk doesn't mean you get to blame the desk for not sorting it for you. You still created your own mess. Sure, Windows' start menu isn't cleaned up automagically, but it's very easy to do it yourself.
When I install programs under Windows, I don't always get to choose where they will be installed.
So it is like an office desk, where people put things in your In tray, but also wherever else they please. And then I'm not doing my job, but cleaning up the mess instead.
Sorting the Windows Start menu is not at all easy; it is quite a time-consuming task.
Re:What is a plasmoid? (Score:5, Informative)
Ok, a plasmoid is generally a visualisation of a Data Engine. There can be many plasmoids for the same data engine (eg. this means that if we write 10 task bars then the back end code is all shared). Unlike an application a plasmoid doesn't have its own process, and simply responds to changes in the underlying data engine (because of various bits of wizardry this means that they will consume less battery power too btw). In a model-view design, you can consider a plasmoid to be a pure view. That said, many of the current plasmoids blur this by including model functionality - this is likely to become less prevelant as we determine what data engines we need.
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:4, Informative)
The number in parenthesis refers to the section of the manual where the command can be found. See man(1).
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:5, Informative)
If he knew anything about Unix nomenclature, that'd be a dot(1) release.
Heck no.
(I don't, I'm still confused when people refer to man(6) or what-not. Can anyone help me out, I couldn't find a wikipedia page or FAQ on the numbers in parenthesis anywhere.)
It comes from the fact that the manpages have headings that look like e.g.:
LS(1) manual LS(1)
So ENTRYNAME(MANUALSECTION).
So essentially the thing(2) notation simply indicates in which section of the (now electronic) manual the thing is. For instance, commands are section 1, system calls section 2, library functions section 3, kernel interfaces section 4, file formats section 5, and so on.
It is mostly used to indicate that we're talking about manpages, so e.g. "see open(2) for details" indicates "open's manpage." More verbose usages such as "see the manpage for open(2)" are also seen.
This overlaps with a second usage, which makes more sense to me but is less common: to use the manpage notation to indicate which type of thing you're talking about. For instance, there is a command 'printf' and a library function 'printf,' so saying 'use printf(1)' or 'use printf(3)' to disambiguate the two is a convenient use of the 'manpage notation.'
But mostly people mean it as a shorthand for 'the manpage.'
As a warning... (Score:3, Informative)
...from the KDE devs, read this before you install:
http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/Is_KDE_4.1_for_you%3F [kde.org]
(Disclaimer: I used KDE 4.0, was aware it was a developer release, and liked it for what it was despite the lack of polish. I've been using the KDE 4.1 betas and RCs for a while and really like what's been done and it's really usable for me. But YMMV and there are some parts that aren't up to par with 3.5.x yet. That's fine - I didn't use those parts. But if you are using them, then 3.5.x is still being patched and updated, so it might be worth waiting 'til 4.2 before you switch.)
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:3, Informative)
A good example is crontab(1) and crontab(5). Try 'man 1 crontab' and 'man 5 crontab' and you'll get the command and the config file, respectively. It normally doesn't matter, as if there's only one in the manual, you get the one if you do 'man whatever'.
Re:Remember folks (Score:2, Informative)
Well, yeah. A lot of people didn't upgrade to Vista. They stuck with XP. So now, Microsoft trying to fix both the technical and PR issues with Windows 7 to gain those customers back.
You're just wrong. Microsoft and Apple do have an obligation to fix bugs, because they have a financial interest. To put it bluntly, their employees don't get money to feed their families with if you're not buying their products. The higher-ups have obligations to shareholders to deliver quality products, and if they don't, bad things happen.
The fundamental difference is that of responsibility. These open source developers don't have a responsibility to anyone. They're scratching an itch and working on whatever they want to. A company has customers, contracts, and shareholders they are beholden to which requires that they deliver quality products, because if they don't, they are hurt financially, and their public image is damaged.
No, because if paying customers (such as those who have not upgraded to Vista) do not follow the upgrade path because a particular upgrade was bad, Microsoft will be required to address that because they have to make a living. That's why Windows XP support was extended to 2014.
When people criticized KDE4, they get told by a public relations guy that KDE isn't obligated to please them and that they don't need them. In contrast, Microsoft employees do need you because they need your dollars to feed their families, so if you are an unhappy customer, they will be obligated to please you.
Re:Why does anyone care about the 'desktop'? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why does anyone care about the 'desktop'? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The font still sucks (Score:5, Informative)
How could you not understand the claim?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/KDE_4.png [wikimedia.org]
Look how the "R" pushes against the "o" in Root, how the "F" is against the "r" in Fresh, and how the "T" is against the "o" in Tools. Look how the "T" is right up against the "r" in Trash.
Look how freakishly wide the "H" is in Help and the "V" is in View. Look how weirdly thin the "F" is in File and the "T" is in Tools. "W" in general just looks strange.
Some letters are properly spaced from their siblings, and others are jammed right up against each other. Some letters are cartoonishly wide while others are strangely thin. Maybe you don't notice or care about any of this, but it's a lack of professionalism and attention to detail that has lasted for years. They keep rewriting their panels and shells and file managers, but they still won't change the goddamn font!
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:4, Informative)
If you knew anything about Unix nomenclature, you'd know the number in a man is just the section. And if you'd read "man man" as all good geeks should, you'd have all the sections spelled out.
1 Executable programs or shell commands /dev) /etc/passwd
2 System calls (functions provided by the kernel)
3 Library calls (functions within program libraries)
4 Special files (usually found in
5 File formats and conventions eg
6 Games
7 Miscellaneous (including macro packages and conventions), e.g. man(7), groff(7)
8 System administration commands (usually only for root)
9 Kernel routines [Non standard]
Re:Bye bye to KHTML? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Remember folks (Score:2, Informative)
"And that is the kind of attitude that will ensure that desktop Linux will not gain acceptance."
So what?
No, I meant it: so what?
Re:Best KDE 4 distro? (Score:2, Informative)
The one that comes with KDE4.1? http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/2009.0_Beta_1 [mandriva.com]
Re:So far, I am impressed (Score:5, Informative)
So do I.
Wait, actually I don't. Because I run Amarok 1 with KDE3 libs still installed, even with a KDE4 desktop. There are quite a few KDE3 apps I can run, in fact.
Re:Do we really need notification? (Score:3, Informative)
Another use for Man(#) notation (Score:3, Informative)
When you see the "()"s, you know exactly where you get more info on the subject. I think this is somewhat usual for mailing lists and multiple CC'ed emails where you have people of varying degrees of experience. I think it really does help S/N ratio, IMHO.
Re:The font still sucks (Score:3, Informative)
There is no font "sans" -- it's a generic placeholder that will be substituted by whatever font the distribution thinks is a nice sans-serif font.
In any case, anyone who is able to discern any difference between the font rendering in Gnome and the font rendering in KDE is deluded -- both desktops use _exactly_ the same font rendering technology. If you don't like the default options, you can set your preferred kind of anti-aliasing, hinting and font size.
Re:Nvidia cards (Score:3, Informative)
A better explaination can be found here [kde.org]. I'm also running KDE4 with an NVidia 8800, yet this "choppy resize" problem does not affect me, so I haven't needed a workaround.