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Operating Systems Software Sun Microsystems

Review of Sun's Free Open Source Virtual Machine 354

goombah99 writes "After snapping up virtualization company InnoTek at the beginning of the year, Sun has recently released VirtualBox as a fully functional and highly polished free GPL open source x86 Virtual Machine. It can host 32- or 64-bit Linux, Windows XP Vista and 98, OpenSolaris and DOS. It runs on Mac OS X, Windows, and Unix platforms. The download is just 27MB. A review of it on MacWorld, showing HD movies playing inside windows XP on a mac, demonstrates performance visually indistinguishable from VMware. Like its competition, it can run other OSes in rootless, rooted, or seamless modes display modes (where all the applications have their windows mixed at the same time). Each VM instance can only run single core (though I/O is multi-core), and it does not yet support advanced windows graphics libraries however, so some gamers may be disappointed. Slashdot discussed the InnoTek acquisition earlier.
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Review of Sun's Free Open Source Virtual Machine

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  • InnoTek? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:36PM (#24408941)

    Umm, yeah. Did you get the memo?

  • by larry bagina ( 561269 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:36PM (#24408943) Journal
    but yeah, in the last few months, it's seen some polishing (particularly the Macintosh features).
    • by Mental Maelstrom ( 1268890 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:14PM (#24409439)
      True. VirtualBox was GPL2'd in January 2007, Sun acquired InnoTek in February 2008 (source [wikipedia.org]). So it was actually InnoTek, not Sun, who released VirtualBox into the wild in the first place. :-)
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        And this shows that Sun is willing to invest in a GPL'd product.
      • by kestasjk ( 933987 ) on Thursday July 31, 2008 @04:30AM (#24413469) Homepage
        Wow, I had never heard of this before, sounds good! I had been using Microsoft's software, which gives me a "Processor error" when I try to boot Ubuntu, perhaps VirtualBox will have better luck.

        Sun just get better and better, I'm slowly finding myself using more and more of their software, and most of it is excellent.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by mu22le ( 766735 )

        VirtualBox is based on qemu, they had no choice but to release all the sources together with the binary.
        That said, InnoTak kept the OS add-on (the small programs and extension that let you share mouse, keyboard, folders and so on) closed source, but free as in beer, I do not know about Sun, possibly they will release the add-on sources too.

  • by Drinking Bleach ( 975757 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:37PM (#24408955)
    In my experience, I've actually found VirtualBox to be much faster than VMware, and coupled with the far less demanding system requirements (at least for the VM software itself, it doesn't do much to reduce guest sys requirements, of course :P), I haven't used VMware for over a year and half now.
    • by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:49PM (#24409129) Journal

      I had nothing but problems with it when I was testing it a couple of months ago. I couldn't get the networking to work in NAT mode, and bridging mode on a laptop ain't always the best idea. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

      • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:47PM (#24409823)

        I couldn't get the networking to work in NAT mode, and bridging mode on a laptop ain't always the best idea.

        There was a nice bug in 1.6.0 that severely hindered networking, it has been fixed in 1.6.2 though. I only had problems with bridges and tun devices, I didn't try NAT, the bug reports had windows hosts and Linux guests, my situation had Windows and Linux guests on a Linux host. To summarize the bug: networking works perfectly until you reboot the VM, then there is no working network.

      • by Zancarius ( 414244 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:52PM (#24409873) Homepage Journal

        I had nothing but problems with it when I was testing it a couple of months ago. I couldn't get the networking to work in NAT mode, and bridging mode on a laptop ain't always the best idea. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

        Getting the networking system to work is a bit of a pain, but I've only had minor difficulties when using the host interface. NAT will work, but you won't be able to ping or access any resources in your own network (which is a bad thing if you have a fileserver at home and wish to access it on a VM). There are, however, a few tutorials that can help you get started with bridging your network for Windows hosts [wordpress.com] or a variety of Linux [gentoo-wiki.com] hosts [ubuntu.com].

        FreeBSD is the only guest OS I've had difficulties with (even MSDOS will work, but it requires some additions to prevent it from eating up your cycles like crazy--FreeDOS plays nicely, though). I could only ever get the NAT-based networking to work and even then it would freeze whenever IO operations peaked.

        Take a look at some of those articles, and you might be able to get networking up and running in VirtualBox! I have to say, for something of a FOSS offering, it's really nice.

      • I've had NAT working with Fedora 8 and Fedora 9 with VirtualBox 1.6.0 and 1.6.2 on my Windows XP laptop. I set up both of those for PCnet-FAST III (NAT) on Network Adapter 0 and have had no problems. I've had some problems with the guest additions in both versions, though.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        I had the same network problems, and on top of that the USB support is buggy at best.

        For something like a webcam it was absolutely unusable.

        • by alizard ( 107678 ) <alizard&ecis,com> on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @11:25PM (#24411967) Homepage
          hookups to scanners and printers. Except for OpenSolaris and W98SE (explicitly not supported), I've had working scanner and printer support on every OS (Kubuntu/Ubuntu V7 and V8, OpenSuse11, XP) I've tried Sun Virtualbox v1.6.2 with. I've been using it to review operating systems for publication. If I'd had a scanner and printer that worked with OpenSolaris, I think it would have worked just fine there, too.

          Linux webcam support is problematic whether you're trying to get it on a real or a virtual machine. Has your webcam worked on any Linux physical box you've tried it on?

          I'm planning to replace VMware Server with VirtualBox completely on this box. (Debian Lenny host)
    • by adisakp ( 705706 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:07PM (#24409345) Journal
      In my experience, I've actually found VirtualBox to be much faster than VMware

      VMWare supports multiple CPUs (2 cores visible on Guest OS) and also supports hardware accelerated 3D. Have you tried running any 3D or multithreaded apps under VMWare and VirtualBox? I find that VMWare is quite fast if you install the VMTools in the guest OS and the integration (cross VM copy/past / drag and drop, seamless mouse pointer, etc) is quite nice.

      One of the main things I like about VMWare is the "Snapshot" capability which lets you create multiple "restore" points (in an easy to use visual "tree" manager) that you can instantly return to. In fact you can have a VM automatically revert to a snapshot. Does VirtualBox have any sort of advanced snapshot management?
    • by goombah99 ( 560566 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:20PM (#24409509)

      Does this thing run the VM as some sort of hypervisor underneath the OS or does it piggyback the other OS's on a parent OS.

      If It's a hypervisor like thing where all the OS's' are symmetric then I guess it must be getting in the way of my "normal" OS and limiting it to single core?

      If it's not a hypervisor/symmetric VM and one OS is the master, Do all the OS's have full access to the hardware functions. So for example if I my mac is the master OS, and I set up a firewall set, does the windows OS have to go through the mac's firewall (and thus be protected better) or does it have direct access to the ports itself. If the latter who negotiates the conflicts when both want the CD or audio port.

      Finally, are the VMs portabel from machine to machine. Or even platform to platform.

      So If I create a VM on one machine, save it's state and open it on another machine, does it just run? (even the network settings?) What if the second machine was say an AMD and the first an Intel. What if the first host was a mac and the second host a linux machine?

      • by forkazoo ( 138186 ) <<wrosecrans> <at> <gmail.com>> on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @09:57PM (#24411431) Homepage

        Does this thing run the VM as some sort of hypervisor underneath the OS or does it piggyback the other OS's on a parent OS.

        It's not a hypervisor. It's basically just an application that you run under your real OS.

        If It's a hypervisor like thing where all the OS's' are symmetric then I guess it must be getting in the way of my "normal" OS and limiting it to single core?

        If it's not a hypervisor/symmetric VM and one OS is the master, Do all the OS's have full access to the hardware functions. So for example if I my mac is the master OS, and I set up a firewall set, does the windows OS have to go through the mac's firewall (and thus be protected better) or does it have direct access to the ports itself. If the latter who negotiates the conflicts when both want the CD or audio port.

        The main OS treats it as an ordinary application. The primary OS firewall will effect hosted machines, for example, and as far as audio, as long as your primary OS can deal with multiple applications playing sound, then it's a non issue. Otherwise, it happens as any other conflict would. Generally, first to open the device wins.

        Finally, are the VMs portabel from machine to machine. Or even platform to platform.

        So If I create a VM on one machine, save it's state and open it on another machine, does it just run? (even the network settings?) What if the second machine was say an AMD and the first an Intel. What if the first host was a mac and the second host a linux machine?

        Yes, you can move the VM images around. Part of the whole point of the VM is that it is running on the virtual hardware, and doesn't have the ability to know what the physical hardware is.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by r_jensen11 ( 598210 )

        So for example if I my mac is the master OS, and I set up a firewall set, does the windows OS have to go through the mac's firewall (and thus be protected better) or does it have direct access to the ports itself.

        When setting VirtualBox up under Gentoo, I had to create a new network 'device' specifically for VB, and would have to create one for each virtual machine had I not just decided to stick with 1 virtual machine. From my understanding, VB is protected in the following fashion:

        eth0 and tap both connect to br0, so the chain would go:
        Internet eth0 br0 tap. I would imagine that if the firewall were applied to either eth0 or br0, it that would protect both the host and client, since the host interfaces with b

  • VirtualBox! (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:41PM (#24409011)

    The best virtualization I've found for windows hosts. Works great - I run Vista Ultimate host & Ubuntu guest in seamless mode on my laptop and everything is still fast as hell!

    • Not to knock the multiplatform and OS aspects of this but I had Vista Ultimate under Virtual PC on XP with a single core sempron 2800 and I found it surprisingly responsive/usable.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      I run Vista Ultimate host & Ubuntu guest in seamless mode on my laptop and everything is still fast as hell!

      I highly recommend swapping that around. I run a Vista guest on Ubuntu and it is really quick - for some reason the Vista boot time seems quicker in the VM (?) - and that gives me 3D acceleration for Ubuntu. It works out a bit better for me because the 3D desktop in Vista is pretty, but the 3D desktop on Ubuntu is highly functional and much more configurable. I'll take the form + function over jus

  • Starcraft runs fine (Score:4, Informative)

    by blargfgarg ( 1336081 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:42PM (#24409019)
    I'm happy.
  • Wow! (Score:5, Funny)

    by gazbo ( 517111 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:42PM (#24409031)
    Free, GPL AND open source? All in one package? However do they do it?!
    • Volume! (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      They lose a little on each sale, but they make up for it in volume.

  • Darkhorse (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF ( 813746 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:43PM (#24409049)

    It looks like a viable candidate for a VM, but still a bit behind the leaders. VMWare and Parallels seem to be better choices if you can afford them, but hopefully being free as in beer and GPL will allow it to catch up rapidly and make the ongoing competition even better. If they can get 3D graphics card support running, I will be looking really hard at VirtualBox.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by at_slashdot ( 674436 )

      "VMWare and Parallels seem to be better choices"

      On which facts do you base your assertion? I understand the 3D issue (by the way does Parallels do 3D?) but other than that?

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Firehed ( 942385 )

      I'm curious as to how your experiences have been with 3d in other virtualization software. As of yesterday, I couldn't even get Counter-strike:Source to open in VMWare (which is hardly resource-intensive by today's standards), let alone play; my experiences in Parallels, while less recent, have been pretty much the same. I've of course tried several other games with similar results. Maybe their 3d goals are more CAD/workstation-oriented, but that's frankly irrelevant to me.

      Anyone else with some insight?

    • Re:Darkhorse (Score:4, Informative)

      by cbart387 ( 1192883 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:46PM (#24409805)

      VMWare and Parallels seem to be better choices if you can afford them

      vmware server edition is free, barring a registration via email. At least it was 3 months ago...

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by ensignyu ( 417022 )

        VMWare Server 1.0 works pretty well for basic desktop use, and has a number of useful features that VMWare Player doesn't.

        I'd stay away from 2.0 unless you really want to run a server though. They replaced the nice, intuitive admin GUI with an ugly, buggy, and barely usable web browser based interface. To add insult to injury, the Tomcat instance takes 100+ megs of RAM.

    • Re:Darkhorse (Score:5, Informative)

      by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @07:17PM (#24410129) Journal
      Parallels sold me their desktop software when I bought an Intel Mac. After repeated crashes (OS X kernel panics, not just application panics), they finally admitted that it was their fault and they hadn't read the documentation about how inter-processor interrupts were meant to work, so their kernel module crashed regularly on any Core 2 Duo machine. Their suggested fix? Buy the new version. Those pirates deserve to go out of business.
  • Binaries not Free (Score:5, Informative)

    by Bryansix ( 761547 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:44PM (#24409051) Homepage

    Â 2 Grant of license. (1) Sun grants you a personal right to install and execute the Product on a Host Computer for Personal Use or Educational Use or for Evaluation. âoePersonal Useâ requires that you use the product on the same Host Computer where you installed it yourself and that no more than one client connect to that Host Computer at a time for the purpose of displaying Guest Computers remotely. âoeEducational useâ is any use in an academic institution (schools, colleges and universities, by teachers and students). âoeEvaluationâ means testing the product for a reasonable period (that is, normally for a few weeks); after expiry of that term, you are no longer permitted to evaluate the Product.

    The binaries are not Free for corporate use. The source is free (GPL) but good fucking luck compiling it on a windows machine. Maybe you could compile it on a linux machine but on windows it assumes a development environment complete with every freakin' thing under the Sun (no pun intended). I gave up after two days of trying to get it to work.

    • by Drinking Bleach ( 975757 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:46PM (#24409091)

      You're already using Windows -- what's so odd about buying a license?

      • It's not odd that they want to charge for their product, it's odd that they charge for the binaries, but not the source. That's the odd thing.
        • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:13PM (#24409431)

          It's not odd that they want to charge for their product, it's odd that they charge for the binaries, but not the source. That's the odd thing.

          It's not odd if you look at it from a contribution standpoint.

          The FOSS community contributes to VirtualBox directly through help with development, testing and bug fixing on the project, as well as indirectly through their efforts on all the other FOSS projects upon which VirtualBox depends, including toolchains and mountains of utilities. Availability of source code is clearly not optional for this.

          Windows binary users get a bit of a free ride on the back of all that hard work, so instead they contribute to VirtualBox by providing a bit of cash. They don't need access to the source code nor a build environment for this, and what's more, in the Windows environment it's very normal and expected to pay for your packages.

          So, the VirtualBox product offering seems quite well adjusted to its two communities, and quite fair as well.

        • by paulbd ( 118132 )
          Not odd at all ... you can have the source for free - since anyone else can give it you as well. But if they do the work of building it, they want you to pay for the time and effort you've saved (which apparently on Windows, seems like quite a bit).
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by rtechie ( 244489 ) *

        Because it's bullshit.

        You cannot compile your own binary from the supposedly free open source code and distribute it. The goal here is to save money on QA by rolling patches made to the released open source code into their commecrcial non-distibutable binary product. This is the same crap that has me pissed off at Sugar (of SugarCRM). Sugar has done a very good job of FOOLING the open source community into thinking their product is open source. What Sugar does is that the release most of the product as open

    • by Darkness404 ( 1287218 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:55PM (#24409189)
      See, this is one part where a package management tool comes in handy. For example, the binaries that are provided by Sun are not free, BUT when Debian takes the GPL'd source, and makes a .deb file, it is free.
    • by goombah99 ( 560566 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:07PM (#24409353)

      That bussiness model seems pretty fair to me. Release the code GPL, free binaries for non commerical use, and sell the binaries for corporate clients. They are essentially charging companies for the time and expertise it takes to compile it. And presumably it means they only have to offer support to paying corprorate customers.

      A nice thing about that model is that it caps the price at the value added. Think sun is charging too much? compile it yourself and support it yourself. The value contained in the code itself, and value added to the code by unpaid GPL contributors, is not part of the price this way.

      And that's a very nice way to make money off GPL. You're not cheating the contributors at all. And anyone can go into competition with sun for the compiling. So it comes down to charging for the value added by sun in compiling and servicing it.

      Not quite the same as RedHat's model but highly simmilar

      • Last time I checked I could get Red Hat for free and pay for support if I needed it. I work for a small company. I just need virtualbox for one specific thing. I'm not in a position to pitch it to my boss.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by radarsat1 ( 786772 )

        A nice thing about that model is that it caps the price at the value added. Think sun is charging too much? compile it yourself and support it yourself.

        Until someone does figure out to compile and releases a nice auto-build tool under GPL that anyone can use with the click of a mouse. Then it's back to Litigation City.

        For example, if I understand correctly, this is basically what happened with WineX, the custom Wine port for Cedega. They release the source as subversion (not tarball) but provided binaries for a cost. They even made it pretty difficult to find the svn repository, but it would be mentioned here or there on a forum, or maybe a single small

    • Re:Binaries not Free (Score:5, Interesting)

      by adisakp ( 705706 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:10PM (#24409383) Journal
      The binaries are not Free for corporate use. The source is free (GPL) but good fucking luck compiling it on a windows machine. Maybe you could compile it on a linux machine but on windows it assumes a development environment complete with every freakin' thing under the Sun (no pun intended). I gave up after two days of trying to get it to work.

      Go recursive / self-hosted build. You could always set up a VirtualBox VM with the appropriate development environment to build VirtualBox :-)
    • by JSBiff ( 87824 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:19PM (#24409499) Journal

      I too ran into this problem where I wanted the OSE (Open Source Edition) GPL binaries on Windows. I already had Visual Studio installed, so that wasn't a big deal, but one of the requirements to build is having the MinGW g++ compiler, so now you have a situation where you need two seperate c++ compilers to compile the thing, which is kind of wierd. On top of that you need to download and install the DirectX SDK and the Windows Driver Kit, along with several open source libraries (ok, needing various library dependencies is kind of of par for the course though).

      After finally getting everything downloaded and unpacked into a build tree, and getting all the command line arguments for their configure script (so it would know where to find all the libraries), the build process ran for about 1/2 hour then died with a type casting error related to the USB device driver. Now, according to the VirtualBox website, the USB wasn't even supposed to be part of the Open Source Edition (and I suspect that might be part of why I got the errors - because it was expecting it and it wasn't there).

      I asked on the VirtualBox forums and developer mailing list, and after a week someone said that they got it to build by commenting out the 2 lines that generated the build error. But now I'm *very afraid*. A Debian developer who 'got rid of build errors' by commenting out 2 very critical lines of source code put hundreds of thousands or millions of users in jeopardy (because of weak SSL keys generated with insufficient randomness). I have no idea what the long term effects of commenting out those two lines of code are, so I wouldn't be comfortable distributing the OSE binaries I built to anyone anyhow.

      On that topic - I'm not sure whether *any* binaries built of VirtualBox could legally be distributed under the GPL, anyhow - I'm worried about the fact that it depends on the DirectX SDK and Windows Driver Kit - would the terms of either of those 'poison' the binaries?

      I should, I suppose, mention that it's possible that since the version of the source that I downloaded, the VBox developers may have fixed the compile issue, but the whole thing just reeks of trying to appear to be GPL, while making it practically impossible for most users (on Windows, at least) to get it working from source, starting with the fact that you can't compile it on Windows without Visual C++, and continuing on to the un-compilability of the source code version which was released at the time I tried to build the binaries ( about a month ago ).

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      From the VirtualBox Personal Use and Evaluation License (PUEL):

      "Personal Use" requires that you use the product on the same Host Computer where you installed it yourself and that no more than one client connect to that Host Computer at a time for the purpose of displaying Guest Computers remotely.

      It does not restrict corporate use. Their definition of personal use is quite different from most licenses.

    • Re:Binaries not Free (Score:5, Informative)

      by TheBig1 ( 966884 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:51PM (#24409857) Homepage

      This is not quite correct - in the FAQ they state that you can use it on work machines and still have it count as personal use (even if it is used for buisiness purposes). However, if you make an install image and roll out to 1000 users, that would count as an enterprise install. See Virtual Box FAQ, point 6. [virtualbox.org]

      Overall, I think this is quite a fair license and restriction.

      Cheers

      • "Well I didn't know that!" Said in the same tone as Seth Rogan in The 40 Year Old Virgin when he realizes David's Ex (played by Mindy Kaling of "The Office" Fame) has really been trying to stay away from David and that David is stalking her.

        I'll install the binary right away.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by speedtux ( 1307149 )

      Maybe you could compile it on a linux machine

      You don't have to. Under Linux, you just type "apt-get install virtualbox".

      but good fucking luck compiling it on a windows machine

      Well, that's because compiling anything with a lot of dependencies on a Windows machine sucks. The problem is Windows

  • Works for me (Score:5, Informative)

    by trampel ( 464001 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:45PM (#24409065) Homepage
    I've been using the non-GPL version since before Sun acquired them to run XP-only work software under Linux on an 1.5GHz Athlon, with decent performance.

    The weird thing is that the boot time for XP in the virtual machine is shorter than on the real one.

    • Re:Works for me (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Darkness404 ( 1287218 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:52PM (#24409157)
      What would be so odd about that? With a real XP install a cold boot has to go through A) The BIOS (about 3-4 seconds) B) The bootloader (depends) and C) The actual boot up. With a VM you only have to do C. And that isn't including any tweaks that the VM authors have done to speed up XP.
      • Re:Works for me (Score:5, Informative)

        by setagllib ( 753300 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:08PM (#24409361)

        Virtual machines have their own [very fast] BIOS and bootloader. The only exception is when you run a Linux kernel from an intelligent tool like QEMU/KVM or Xen which can load a kernel from the host and inject it into the virtual machine to boot the guest.

        The fact remains that real devices have warmup sequences which cannot be altogether avoided. The closest the world has come to VM-like booting is LinuxBIOS, which cuts down the device initialisation to the point that Linux can boot on top almost instantly, just like in a virtual machine.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by ShadeARG ( 306487 )

        The parent poster is saying that the XP startup sequence, from the 3 bars that marquee to the login/desktop is a lot faster. Even Vista flies unnaturally under VirtualBox with only 512MB of RAM dedicated to it on an AM2 5000+ BE processor without hardware virtualization enabled.

        I refuse to run Vista on a real machine--I've seen one too many horrifying installs with quality WHQL certified hardware go horribly wrong. I don't mind running Vista in VirtualBox, it behaves very well. The only snag I ran into was

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by black6host ( 469985 )

      I, too, use the non-GPL version and I've been most happy with it. My host is Ubuntu Hardy, with a variety of guests. Sharepoint development is best done on a Windows Server box so that is my main guest (SBS 2003), which I run in seamless mode. Got an XP guest running at the same time for testing and while I didn't bother to try and set up NAT between the two guests I've had no problem with networking. 2 virtual cards in both guests allow the guests to communicate on one segment to each other, and to the

  • A Good VM (Score:5, Informative)

    by lgbr ( 700550 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:45PM (#24409075)

    I find this to be an excellent VM that continues to make a lot of progress. After using VMWare server, Bochs, and QEmu, this one really takes the cake on both performance and usability. Virtual machines are easy to set up using a nice graphical interface, and all of the bells and whistles require no extensive configuration (sound, mouse integration). Running a Gentoo hardened Linux on amd64? No problem. Some of the features that really put VirtualBox above the rest for me:

    • Intel E1000 Support.
    • Seamless window integration for popular OSes
    • Shared folders
    • VT-x/AMD-V and PAE/NX Support
    • Headless support

    Best of all, it's FOSS.

    • by cute-boy ( 62961 )

      Running a Gentoo hardened Linux on amd64? No problem.

      Being a Gentoo user, you compiled Virtual Box yourself from the source?

      R

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by spinkham ( 56603 )

      I'm using KVM on Linux mostly because as virtualbox still doesn't support 64 bit guests.
      Virtualbox management infrastructure and guest additions are way better then qemu/KVM, but the lack of 64 bit support on the guest side makes it a no go for me.
      When checking if 64 bit works yet, I see some recent checkins for 64 bit support and a claim on the forums that 64 bit guests will be in the next release.
      The other issue I've had is Ubuntu specific. When a new kernel comes out, KVM is included, but virtualbox OSE

  • Sun (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jcnnghm ( 538570 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:45PM (#24409077)

    Sun has consistently appeared to be one of the largest corporate supporters of OSS, and their hardware is rock solid, yet they seem to get bashed every time they come up. It seems like they've been busy giving away the keys to the castle so to speak, but it never seems to be enough. What does everybody have against Sun?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Because, by keeping some parts of things proprietary, Sun comes off as a hypocrite. We either want a company to praise (such as Red Hat) or a company to hate (such as Microsoft), but one that keeps some things proprietary and some things in the open just makes us wonder why. For example, we know the main reason why Apple went on an open-sourcing binge when OS X was released, to keep Apple relevant, but Sun never really had a down time like Apple did around the OS 9 era.
      • Re:Sun (Score:5, Informative)

        by Drinking Bleach ( 975757 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:55PM (#24409195)

        Sun was a proprietary vendor for quite a long time. Practically the whole reason that they take so long between announcing something is going to be open source (eg, Solaris and Java) and actually getting it into the public, is auditing the entire source tree to make sure they don't release some component licensed from some other company when they're not supposed to do that.

      • by jcnnghm ( 538570 )

        In that case it should be much easier to criticize Apple. It seems Sun is open sourcing things as quickly as they can deal with the legal ramifications, Apple is nothing like that.

        I've been reading the Sun ceo's blog lately, and it seems like every post talks about open source at some point or another.

        • Re:Sun (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Zancarius ( 414244 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @07:12PM (#24410069) Homepage Journal

          I've been reading the Sun ceo's blog lately, and it seems like every post talks about open source at some point or another.

          I have to agree. Jonathan Schwartz is a very brilliant individual, and his blog entries make for informative and often entertaining reads. His take on applying FOSS in the corporate world is very interesting, particularly in these times where the technological world seems to be moving away from proprietary software.

          I very much believe that part of the reason Schwartz is so vehement about open sourcing Sun's offerings is partially the result of genuine goodwill. However, I also believe that much of the reason is due in no small part to his desire to a) keep Sun relevant in the news (it works to get headlines!), b) when he mentions Sun's GPL/OSI-approved software, he tends to also press the issues of maintainability, dependability, and Sun's commitment to continued support (i.e. it's open source and we can fix it if something goes wrong), and c) I think it may also be partially viral. One merely has to take a glance at the various languages (especially in the web development/scripting sphere) to understand how open sourcing the interpreter, virtual machine, or compiler tends to bolster a product's popularity. Yes, there are certainly failures in this regard, but considering Python, Perl, PHP, Ruby, LUA, and company (let's not forget the popularity of gcc when it comes to C/C++!), the only thing that surprises me is that Sun didn't open source Java sooner.

          Schwartz is a good man, and I'd like to believe that while he's looking out for maintaining Sun's relevance in the years ahead as well as pushing their own product offerings and support, he's also doing good for the community as a whole. As other posters stated before, it's really a moot point getting on Sun's case; there are serious, often frightening legal implications when you open up your source--especially if you licensed parts of it from other companies. It isn't that Sun wishes to do anything evil, it's just that their hands are tied by companies that don't exactly see the world in the same light as the rest of us do (remember the fiasco regarding Java's sound libraries and the Dolby or THX issues? that's a good example).

          Bravo to Sun. VirtualBox is an awesome product, and I'm glad that they've added it to their product portfolio.

      • Re:Sun (Score:4, Interesting)

        by MobyTurbo ( 537363 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:45PM (#24409795)

        For example, we know the main reason why Apple went on an open-sourcing binge when OS X was released, to keep Apple relevant, but Sun never really had a down time like Apple did around the OS 9 era.

        The main reason why OS X has so much open source has nothing to do with "an attempt to keep Apple relevant", it was because when NeXTStep (OS X's ancestor, why do you think most of the API still begins with NS?) was made, Unixes that were based on BSD Unix were the de-facto standard, and the Mach microkernel was considered state of the art. There were a *lot* of Unixes that were partially open source (though this predates the open source movement) and partially proprietary at the time. OS X simply has heritage from a codebase that was state of the art Unix circa the late 80s. (Predating Linux by several years.)

    • Re:Sun (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF ( 813746 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:08PM (#24409367)

      Sun has consistently appeared to be one of the largest corporate supporters of OSS, and their hardware is rock solid, yet they seem to get bashed every time they come up... What does everybody have against Sun?

      Personally, I appreciate Sun's OSS work. I do understand some of the sentiment though. Sun often seems to be a day late and a dollar short in their OSS ventures. They waited to release OpenSolaris under a reasonable OSS license until Linux had completely dominated that niche. Ditto with many other technologies. Even now, it is a real pain in the butt to actually get a copy of OpenSolaris and install it as a normal user. They make you install a proprietary download manager and give them a bunch of personal info. On almost all of their projects, developers not working at Sun complain about how hard it is to get changes and contributions added to those projects, because of all the red tape. Sun's OSS motto might be "we'll do OSS if we have no other option, and then we'll make it annoying". In this case they've made the binaries for this project unavailable for corporate users in a clear attempt to try to make things artificially hard so they can make money on unnecessary service contracts, instead of making it easy and concentrating on service contracts where they can provide real value (the former strategy often resulting in lesser adoption of their projects, to the detriment of said project).

      I'd like to stress that I do appreciate their work. Unlike another person replying, I have no problem with their creating and profiting from both proprietary and OSS projects. They just are a big business that despite being a large OSS contributor, does not play very well with individuals or the OSS community as a whole. It leaves a lot of us personally frustrated with them when we expect them to behave like other big OSS contributors. Heck, even Apple is easier to collaborate with.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Golthar ( 162696 )

        What are you talking about? You can download the latest OpenSolaris right here without any registration: http://www.opensolaris.com/get/index.html [opensolaris.com]
        And Sun finally stepped into the new decade by finally providing a package manager by using IPS.

        As for the red tape, all large open source organisations require contributors to sign some form of agreement to allow them stewardship over the code. This allows them to relicense it in the future. Sure Sun was slow and late on the uptake, but they are opening up a lot

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Have you looked at what the open source version of virtualbox currently lacks?


      The following list shows the enterprise features that are only present in the closed-source edition. Note that this list may change over time as some of these features will eventually be made available with the open-source version as well.

      * Remote Display Protocol (RDP) Server

      This component implements a complete RDP server on top of the virtual hardware and allows users to

    • Re:Sun (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:13PM (#24409429)

      The short answer is that Sun won't get on the Linux bandwagon.

      The slightly longer answer is that they are actually trying to compete with Linux. And some people will even say that Solaris is, in some ways, better than Linux. That's apostasy of the highest order for the Slashdot crowd.

      A longer answer still is that most people on Slashdot are probably exposed to the worst of Sun as part of their jobs: the 10-year old behemoths. They haven't been updated in years (if ever). You can't buy parts for them, and even if you could, they're a bitch to work with because they weigh a million pounds. You spend a large part of your day just trying to keep them shuffling off this mortal coil for just a few more days. And you still often get calls about them in the middle of the night. Then you turn to your fellow admin, the guy who runs 100 shiny new Dells with RHEL5. Who has 100 times as many servers as you, but spends his entire day reading Slashdot. And you burn with hate for Solaris. It's not fair -- a 10-year old Linux box is going to be in a far worse state than a 10-year old Sun box -- but it is the way people think.

      I guess the really short answer is: "A lot of reasons, none of them very good."

  • on how to run Windows Vista preinstalled on a separate partition from VirtualBox (itself running on linux)?

    I tried (not very hard) to follow the docs, and failed dismally.

    tia

  • performace (Score:5, Interesting)

    by brezel ( 890656 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @05:59PM (#24409255) Homepage

    "demonstrates performance visually indistinguishable from VMware"

    what? i have been running vmware on my linux workstation at work for years and recently switched to virtualbox and realized that virtualbox is in orders of magnitude snappier, faster and less ressource-intensive than vmware.

    just the fact that mouse support works absolutely flawless in vb is an enormous advantage over vmware. i am not even going into how much i/o wait vmware seemed to cause all the time which vb simply doesn't (yes the settings are comparable:>)

    NEVER will i go back to vmware again (at least not on the desktop)

  • I checked the site and it says that the OS X version is still in beta. Any 10.5 users tried this yet? Specifically with XP?
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by hudsucker ( 676767 )
      It does generally work. But it has some rough edges. Some of these are OS X specific. YMMV.
      • No raw disk support on OS X.
      • Can't use a Boot Camp partition as the hard disk.
      • Can't run 64-bit guests.
      • No 3D graphics support.
      • No Host Interface Networking (virtual switch) on OS X.
      • Ctrl-left click is passed as right mouse button even on a two button mouse.
      • I couldn't get VBoxSDL to work because that command doesn't exist.
      • I couldn't get VRDP remote connection to work.
      • I couldn't get Windows XP to see VirtualBox shared fold
  • by davejenkins ( 99111 ) <slashdot@NOSPam.davejenkins.com> on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:07PM (#24409351) Homepage

    So, can I run my xbox through it? I need to be able to run simultaneously:
    1) xbox halo
    2) mac for screen grabs and skype
    3) red hat terminals for server access
    4) windows for outlook and skype

    Plus, I need to be able to take screen grabs in any one of these virtual environments and save them into one or more of the others.

    Bonus points if it has 'arrange by penis' for the desktop environments.

    • Actually, you can run multiple VM's at the same time and have them use their own private network (but good luck setting up non-nat network). Along with the shared files, I think it can do most of what you require.

      The only difficult part would be running xbox halo, sorry. No "don't shut down the server" for you :)

  • by Mr2001 ( 90979 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:10PM (#24409385) Homepage Journal

    Does it emulate whatever Apple hardware OS X checks for, or will it still need a patched OS?

  • by cduffy ( 652 ) <charles+slashdot@dyfis.net> on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:10PM (#24409389)

    No 64-bit support in released versions. No libvirt driver (yes, there's a fancy C++ API; libvirt is simpler and easier and has bindings for everything).

    It's fantastic for running a Windows desktop VM -- particularly with the seamless-mode support -- but has no place anywhere near my QA lab.

  • by markybob ( 802458 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:10PM (#24409391)
    for benchmark information about virtualbox vs kvm vs vmware workstation, you might be interested in http://dipconsultants.com/press/24508-1/ [dipconsultants.com]
  • not yet, maybe in the future. You can run virtualbox in a 32bit or 64bit host, but can't run a 64bit guest OS.
  • VMware still wins. (Score:4, Informative)

    by functor ( 31042 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:36PM (#24409731) Homepage

    VirtualBox's greatest failing is that in using QEMU's I/O and networking code, they've made it a royal pain to set up bridged-mode networking on Linux hosts. You get to write two scripts, to add and remove a TAP device from a host-side bridge, and get to set up said bridge on the host yourself. Not only this, since the 2.6.18 kernel you need to run VirtualBox VMs as root (or set up sudo with /etc/sudoers not to prompt for a password and use it within your scripts), because only the superuser can manipulate the TAP/TUN devices; chmodding them writable by a particular privileged group is insufficient.

    Compare to VMware, which handles all the bridging etc. by itself—much more convenient to use.

    Then there are VirtualBox's "Guru meditations", obscure ERROR_MESSAGES_THAT_LOOK_LIKE_THIS and provide minimal information, often requiring perusal of the source code to figure out what's wrong. This is entirely unsuitable for end users as well as people whose time is valuable.

    Finally, I tend to run a 64-bit kernel with 32-bit userspace. VirtualBox does not support this combination—it's either 32-bit kernel with 32-bit userspace or 64-bit kernel with 64-bit userspace. (VMware on the other hand does support 64-bit kernel with 32-bit userspace; its failing is that [as far as I know] there is no non-beta 64-bit userspace for VMware yet, though this will change with the release of VMware Server 2.0 and VMware Workstation 6.5.) This is only really a problem on Debian and Debian-derived distributions like Ubuntu, whose package manager (dpkg) is too incompetent to handle multiarch properly, despite work ongoing for about four years [debian.org] now, so the user has to set up a 64-bit chroot environment [virtualbox.org]. (Fedora, RHEL and CentOS get this right; rpm can handle multiarch properly, so it's only a matter of installing the appropriate libraries there.)

    VMware also supports 64-bit guests on certain processors. VirtualBox doesn't support 64-bit guests at all.

    So in my view, between the two, VMware still wins, open source or no open source.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by cortana ( 588495 )

      I'll take TUN/TAP over VMware's clusterfuck of an installation script any day.

      Many of VirtualBox's error messages could be improved, but they are better than VMware's random freezing or empty dialog boxes.

      I think you're a bit crazy to run a 64 bit kernel and 32 bit user space... it doesn't really matter if VirtualBox does or does not support this... Linux itself doesn't!

  • In unrelated news, your local thrift shop is offering free open source toasters, although it can only toast 1 slice of bread at a time. I'd imagine with a power strip you can line up several of these toasters to toast more bread at once. Cheers!

  • VirtualBox and *BSD (Score:3, Informative)

    by Troy ( 3118 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @06:47PM (#24409815)

    I spent a lot of time trying to get VirtualBox to play nice with FreeBSD. I'm much more familiar with BSD-flavored *nix (esp re: creating jailed environments), so I run a FreeBSD box as a cvs server for the programming classes I teach. I planned on migrating this function to a virtual machine this year. Unfortunately, VirtualBox would go down in flames every time I did a build-world. Web searches availed little.

    I tried using OpenBSD instead, but that ended up being worse. The install looked something like


    Making devices...
    Segmentation Fault
    Segmentation Fault
    Segmentation Fault ...

    I eventually had to migrate my partially-finished FreeBSD disk to VMWare and finish my work there. It's a bit of a bummer, because VirtualBox does appear to have some really neat features, especially for XP guests. Still, I gotta use what meets my needs.

  • A few months ago I switched from using VMWare Workstation 5 and VMWare Server for virtualization to VirtualBox. This choice was driven by a couple of factors:

    1. VMWare's lack of support for newer versions of Ubuntu, requiring downloading some weird patch and hoping it works. It usually did, but still annoying.

    2. Licensing issues with VMWare server periodically expiring and taking down my web server virtual machine, which I otherwise would ignore.

    I've got to say, I've been pretty impressed with VirtualBox

  • I use it right now, on a Kubuntu host, to run XP. I run VS 2008 and Sql Server 2005 for development. I love it. I get the economic benefits of using windows when necessary, but don't have to put up with windows as my main O.S. Bravo to Sun and InnoTek.

  • VirtualBox Vmware (Score:3, Informative)

    by corychristison ( 951993 ) on Wednesday July 30, 2008 @07:39PM (#24410355)

    I swore by VMware for the longest time until I stumbled across VirtualBox.

    It is much, much faster on my machine. Damn near the same as if it was installed on the hardware.

    If I ever actually needed Windows for more than Photoshop (CS2 now runs fine under WINE).

    One feature I am looking for (and have not found yet via reading the net) is if it's possible to use a physical disk instead of a virtual disc.

    It's really handy trying to install pfSense on a flash drive (the dd method doesn't work)... although there are other uses I could use it for, too.

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