Yahoo Blocks Venerable Email List Over False Positives 358
RomulusNR writes "Yahoo has stopped delivering This Is True, Randy Cassingham's 14-year-old mailing list, because too many Yahoo readers have mistakenly or carelessly flagged it as spam. Yahoo readers make up over 10% of True's readership, slashing the ad revenue that keeps it going. And Yahoo doesn't negotiate with spammers. As Randy describes it: 'The yahoos... ask to be put on True's distribution, then confirm that request, and... then click the "This is Spam" button when they don't recognize the mailing or simply don't want it anymore. Yes, those yahoos have screwed thousands upon thousands of others who really do want my newsletter. Too bad: Yahoo is listening to the yahoos instead: they're blocking it. To them, we're "spammers" and no protestations from "spammers" count.' The irony is that This is True is one of the first profitable mailing lists, predating Yahoo! Mail by almost three years."
Re:double standard (Score:5, Informative)
Me, too. They also started throwing all the moveon e-mails and tor e-mails into the spam folder as well. So is yahoo not delivering the mail at all, or just throwing it straight into folks spam folder?
Re:List-Unsubscribe? (Score:5, Informative)
Umm... no.
I get a lot "to unsubscribe, mail to blah@blub..." spam. The reason is simple, when you do unsubscribe from the spam list, they know it's a valid and still active mail address.
You have no idea how much that increases your value as a spam target!
So when spamfilters automatically write to some unsub address instead of flagging something as spam, be prepared to be flooded with spam.
idiots who click on "this is spam" (Score:5, Informative)
most of them think it's a way of unsubscribing from a list.
Causes blacklisting for domains and hosting companies. I had a guy who forwarded his email address to an external address, then clicked on "This is spam" for every message. My IP was in the header so I got blacklisted. I had to scare the shit out of him to get him to stop "now that I've warned you, if you continue, I'll sue and take your house." Needless to say the customer did not renew, saved me the trouble of TOSsing him.
Re:They need an accreditation system (Score:3, Informative)
Those systems have more spammers than nonspammers signed up to them. It simply doesn't work... in fact some of them (the one that use haikus for example) they became a near 100% perfect spam detector.
Yahoo is dead, get out while you can (Score:5, Informative)
I gave up on Yahoo several months ago after an unknown person hijacked my account and changed the password. I don't log in from other computers, I only log in from the Mac in my bedroom, so it's not like I was creating a risk. I was paying Yahoo for a personalized "business" email address, yet it took three hours of phone calls, several emails and over three days to get them to turn my account back over to me. At one point, they told me they could not verify my identity with my name, phone number, mailing address and the credit card number they were billing. They said they couldn't unlock the account without me telling them what my security question was (which I chose 10 years ago), and the answer to that question. I told them, "that's not how security questions work. You ask me the security question and unlock my account when I provide the correct answer." When I finally did get back into my account, I discovered the hijacker had been contacting women through Yahoo personals posing as me, and in some cases telling them to "reply to my other Yahoo address." There were a few different addresses he was pointing people to. I notified Yahoo about this and asked them to investigate the fraud, and they told me it wasn't a priority for them. I migrated everything important to Google, and called Yahoo to cancel my account and transfer my personalized domain, but after hours of waiting on the phone, again, and again, they tell me they don't have the ability to release my domain. It's like dealing with a car salesman. As the company fails, it resorts to shadier practices to hold onto what it has, like AOL before it.
Re:double standard (Score:3, Informative)
Re:120,000 subscribers total (Score:1, Informative)
Do you have any idea how utterly unconnected list size is to the amount of revenue you can make?
I know folks that have a list as small as 500-1000 people that earn a six-figure income.
Plenty of variables involved, including relationship to list, level of interest, average cost of products, length of customer lifeplan, etc.
Don't judge a list by it's size.
freedom of speech (Score:0, Informative)
usually one of the first (non-physical) casualties of ?life? under ife0cidal corepirate nazi regimes. 'beware the military-industrial complex'. who said that? the lights are coming up all over now. conspiracy theorists are being vindicated. some might choose a tin umbrella to go with their hats. the fairytail is winding down now. let your conscience be yOUR guide. you can be more helpful than you might have imagined. there are still some choices. if they do not suit you, consider the likely results of continuing to follow the corepirate nazi hypenosys story LIEn, whereas anything of relevance is replaced almost instantly with pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking propaganda or 'celebrity' trivia 'foam'. meanwhile; don't forget to get a little more oxygen on yOUR brain, & look up in the sky from time to time, starting early in the day. there's lots going on up there.
http://news.google.com/?ncl=1216734813&hl=en&topic=n
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/opinion/31mon1.html?em&ex=1199336400&en=c4b5414371631707&ei=5087%0A
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/29/world/29amnesty.html?hp
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/02/nasa.global.warming.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/06/05/severe.weather.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/06/02/honore.preparedness/index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/opinion/01dowd.html?em&ex=1212638400&en=744b7cebc86723e5&ei=5087%0A
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/05/senate.iraq/index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/17/washington/17contractor.html?hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/world/middleeast/03kurdistan.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080708/cheney_climate.html
is it time to get real yet? A LOT of energy is being squandered in attempts to keep US in the dark. in the end (give or take a few 1000 years), the creators will prevail (world without end, etc...), as it has always been. the process of gaining yOUR release from the current hostage situation may not be what you might think it is. butt of course, most of US don't know, or care what a precarious/fatal situation we're in. for example; the insidious attempts by the felonious corepirate nazi execrable to block the suns' light, interfering with a requirement (sunlight) for us to stay healthy/alive. it's likely not good for yOUR health/memories 'else they'd be bragging about it? we're intending for the whoreabully deceptive (they'll do ANYTHING for a bit more monIE/power) felons to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather', as well as a # of other things/events.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=weather+manipulation&btnG=Search
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying
dictator style micro management has never worked (for very long). it's an illness. tie that with life0cidal aggression & softwar gangster style bullying, & what do we have? a greed/fear/ego based recipe for disaster. meanwhile, you can help to stop the bleeding (loss of life & limb);
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/vermont.banning.bush.ap/index.html
the bleeding must be stopped before any healing can begin. jailing a couple of corepirate nazi hired goons would send a clear message to the rest of the world from US. any truthful look at the 'scorecard' would reveal that we are a society in decline/deep doo-doo, despite all of the scriptdead pr ?firm? generated drum beating & flag waving propaganda that we are constantly bombarded with. is it time to get real yet? please consider carefully ALL of yOUR other 'options'. the creators will prevail. as it has always been.
corepirate nazi execrable costs outweigh benefits
(Score:-)mynuts won, the king is a fink)
by ourselves on everyday 24/7
as there are no benefits, just more&more death/debt & disruption. fortunately there's an 'army' of light bringers, coming yOUR way. the little ones/innocents must/will be protected. after the big flash, ALL of yOUR imaginary 'bor
Something I've noticed... (Score:5, Informative)
From both Yahoo and AOL users: If they don't want something, they just mark it spam, even if they signed up for it.
In fact, we have customers that pay us money every month to send them leads on their inventory, and ever month, we have a few of them (AOL users) mark legitimate inquiries as spam. And they not only asked us to send them to them, they're PAYING US to send them to them!!!
Re:Subscription confirmations need to be standardi (Score:4, Informative)
List-Unsubscribe: is defined in RFC 2369...
And, irony of ironies, Yahoo! Groups actually uses it in their messages.
Re:So, what is the problem? (Score:5, Informative)
There should really be a standardized way to unsubscribe from mailing lists, so that every mail client automatically shows an "unsubscribe" button inside any mailing list email.
There is, and This is True uses it, it's called the "List-Unsubscribe:" header.
Re:So, what is the problem? (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, the people being hurt are the Yahoo users. If you think for one minute people are blind sheep maybe you need spend a bit more time away from your own little world and out in the thick of it.
I know myself if my mail providers started doing this I'd be moving my clients and my gaming clan/corp/guild away from those services. In fact, I'd make an extra special effort to show people how much Yahoo services suck.
While I am dead set against spam, this is NOT the answer. False positives are a good way to lock your company out, and give your competition the upper hand. By taking the typical neo-conservative idea of "we don't negotiate with " you are burning your bridges before you cross the river. Yahoo have always played second fiddle to the likes of Hotmail, and now Gmail, so acting like this will ensure that they fall even farther behind the competition.
Nice work Yahoo, way to burn your customers.
Re:to transfer your domain (Score:2, Informative)
simply buy a domain renewal/transfer somewhere else and keep an eye on your e-mail, your new domain provider will contact yahoo in a way they can't ignore.
If only it were that simple. I went through the process a year ago with a domain I bought from Yahoo in 2000.
You have to close out and cancel your Yahoo domain account (counter intuitive), then deal with Melbourne IT, which is the registrar Yahoo uses. (Because Yahoo is not a registrar.)
Only, Melbourne IT will refer you to Yahoo. And Yahoo will refer you to Melbourne IT. It's a fun process that took me a month and a half for a simple domain transfer.
Never, ever, ever, on pain of death, buy a domain from Yahoo.
Re:So, what is the problem? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Mailing list receipts (Score:2, Informative)
It's fortunately not that simple, try it and you'll see. Y! clearly is not this stupid to let anyone mark anything as spam.
Re:So, what is the problem? (Score:2, Informative)
For people running mail lists, sending bulk mail or whatever... they have ways to keep this from happening.
Yahoo, Microsoft, AOL, etc usually provide bulk mailer feedback loops to prevent this sort of thing. When a recipient marks your mail as spam, the sender is notified so they can remove that recipient from their list.
Basically, you just unsubscribe the whiners. Works surprisingly well.