China Sets Sights On Rail Record 360
An anonymous reader writes "China is aiming to produce the world's fastest operating conventional train for its new high speed rail link between Shanghai and Beijing, achieving speeds up to 380 km/h and cutting the travel time between the two cities from the current ten hours to under five. The new rail link is scheduled to be completed within four years. Meanwhile, the Ministry of Railways' Deputy Chief Engineer has announced that China will be able to manufacture the new trains within two years."
Re:Where's the fire? (Score:5, Informative)
I'm betting the Chinese aren't doing an environmental impact study. And if your current residence is where the tracks are going to be, then you just got displaced and good luck finding someone to complain to, much less someone to sue. i.e. We cant build stuff like this at all because of civil rights and they can build stuff like this all too easily because of a lack of civil rights.
Re:And best of all.. (Score:5, Informative)
> The trains will be powered by the bodies of dead slave laborers ....
USAtoday says:
North America's four major rail networks -- Norfolk Southern, CSX, Union Pacific and Canadian National -- all own lines that were built and operated with slave labor.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2002/02/21/slave-railroads.htm [usatoday.com]
Re:Where's the fire? (Score:3, Informative)
That's because nobody lives there. And because NASA somehow managed to put most of it's facilities in places where no one in their right minds would have ever put human habitation (I'm looking at YOU - Lyndon Baines Johnson Manned Spaceflight Facility - located in some godawful pestilant swamp south of Houston).
Just try to put a launch facility somewhere else in the US.
Re:I disagree about some things. (Score:5, Informative)
People make the mistake of thinking of the environmental crowd as just the hot earthers but there are many subgroups with different motives and methods. They run the gamut from Sierra Club and other conservation groups, to the odd preservation groups who want to create some natural snow globe with nothing ever changes, to groups like Greenpeace, ELF, and ALF. Any one of these groups can file a lawsuit.
Also, it's not just building the tracks, it's also building the power substations if its an electric train (although a super fast steam engine might be cool), the train stations, and all the other supporting infrastructure. A lawsuit for environmental reasons can be brought against any piece of the infrastructure.
Re:Amtrak (Score:2, Informative)
Travel times (including stops) -
Boston-NY: 3.5 hours
NY-DC: 2.75 hours
Re:C'mon, California (Score:3, Informative)
It isn't stuck, it will be on your november CA ballot as Prop 1/1A
There is already one of these in operation (Score:4, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing-Tianjin_high-speed_rail [wikipedia.org]
Re:Amtrak (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.sehsr.org/ [sehsr.org]
http://www.midwesthsr.org/ [midwesthsr.org]
http://www.thsrtc.com/ [thsrtc.com]
http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/ [ca.gov]
Re:The train from Shanghai to the airport... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Amtrak (Score:5, Informative)
But rail is far more cost-effective to build than roads - one pair of tracks can carry the same traffic as a 6-8 lane highway, which is far more costly to construct and maintain, and requires much more land. (Not to mention all the parking lots and feeder roads.)
Trains can also run much faster (nobody is talking about people driving 100-200mph, and trains can run full speed even during commute hours when highways are slowed to a standstill). Trains use much less energy (less rolling resistance and aerodynamic resistance, for starters), emit far less pollution (using less energy, and often electrically powered), cost less to operate and maintain, and are far safer.
The only thing they lack is door-to-door convenience and arbitrary schedules. (But is there really much benefit if you're stuck in traffic and have to pay $20 for parking? On the other hand, how about letting you read or do work or sleep while on the train?) How much are we willing to pay, in dollars, pollution, wasted time, and reliance on foreign oil, for that (sometimes) convenience?
Trains also have similar benefits over airplanes for relatively short trips (anything less than about 2-4 hours, depending on the situation).
Of course, these are all THEORETICAL benefits, which are only realized if we actually make the proper investments. Since we in the USA have spent the last 75 years trying to kill trains rather than investing in them, we only rarely get to experience these benefits.
The trains we have these days are generally slow, go to only a few places, run on very limited schedules, are not particularly clean or comfortable, and have few on-board ameneties. And since they don't benefit from the same level of taxpayer support as roads do, more of their costs are passed on to the passenger, so they don't seem to have as much cost advantage to the end user.
Re:Where's the fire? (Score:3, Informative)
The French TGV is Faster (Score:1, Informative)
574km/h
Look at this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Ir_n3J5ABA
Re:Where's the fire? (Score:3, Informative)
Germany on the other hand had one nasty accident when they took a shortcut to passenger comfort without properly testing the solution first. (They put some extra rubber and steel on the wheels to reduce vibrations, but it came off derailing half the train)
Re:Where's the fire? (Score:4, Informative)
What is the average cargo rate on rail? I've found mention of a rate around $1300 to $1500 per standard shipping container, but I can't find anything more than that. There are certainly cases where I'd like to be able to take my car across the country, and even a shipping cost of $400 or so might be worth it, but I'm thinking that the cost would have to be more than that.
Re:I disagree about some things. (Score:3, Informative)
Common misconception, I'm afraid.
Look, there's capacity and there's capacity. Refineries used to be shut down periodically for scheduled maintenance on the cracker and other critical equipment. There's a reason for that.
Problem is, we are short on capacity (we still haven't recovered all that was lost in Katrina) and the existing plants are being run hard, 24/7/365 in many cases, with little or no time for maintenance downturns. Canadian refineries haven't succumbed to that pressure yet, so they still shut down each year for a few weeks so they can take their time doing proper repairs.
So technically you're correct, but in practice we're pushing it. Really pushing it. Sooner or later there's going to be some serious EPA paperwork being filled out.
Re:Where's the fire? (Score:5, Informative)
One of the big shocks of going to China is just how fast the population drops off at the edge of a city. Regardless of the occasional news bite about China's elite, there aren't any exoburbs or suburbs in practice. Even with the world's largest population, China has the kind of empty space the United States hasn't seen in ages.
Besides, China needs this kind of rail a hell of a lot more than the United States. Between the New Year and having to go to your hometown for official business (it's damn hard to change your official municipality of residence), trains in the PRC are up to their gills.
Re:We drive in the US (Score:3, Informative)
That, of course, won't last forever either. They're heading for one Biblical-sized crash. Now that's to be expected, after a thirty-year boom
Re:Where's the fire? (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, search "EuroTunnel". It's not a normal car-train though, the carriages are very wide and don't travel further than the special stations at either end of the tunnel (Folkstone and Calais). Also, you stay with your vehicle, either sitting inside or you can get out and stand in the carriage. It's about 35 minutes in total, IIRC, which is much less than the car ferry. There are spaces for coaches, but lorries (trucks) have their own train.
Normal car-trains are essentially the same equipment as used to move brand new cars around, but with a passenger coach on the end. There aren't any in the UK (small country), but they are much more popular in the rest of Europe.
Re:Chinese Train Industry (Score:1, Informative)
I wonder why the BBC article fails to mention the TGV, but instead presents the slower german ICE and japanese Shinkansen trains as the 2 currently "fastest" trains.
Well, in terms of operating speed, the ICE is not slower than the TGV. The German variant (ICE3) reaches 320km/h like the TGV, Spanish (Velaro E) and Chinese (CRH3) variants of the ICE3 are designed for 350km/h (and, in the case of China, are operating at 350km/h since the Olympics).
Current absolute record on rail: 574 km/h (Score:4, Informative)
The record on rail, 574 km/h, belongs to the [slashdot.org]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV_world_speed_record#Record_of_2007 [wikipedia.org] . Maglevs go faster but compete in a different category :)
However, the fastest the TGV can go in commercial operation is around 320 km/h, so the Chinese train will top it by some 40 km/h. Kudos to the engineers!
Re:Where's the fire? (Score:3, Informative)
Chicago has rail in the highway medians. The stations are in the air over a narrow platform. They connect to overpasses. Branches could be in the same place as highway interchanges, and either the highway would need to be elevated briefly. If you put the tracks on the side of the road, leaving a large gap, you have to widen your overpasses a lot. Lots of concrete also prevents accidents.
Re:Welcome to the 21st century, China (Score:2, Informative)
Re:the fire is in war (Score:3, Informative)
Somehow I don't see UAV's and IED-proof light armored vehicles benefiting mankind as a whole.
UAVs are being used to track bushfires in California [slashdot.org]
Re:Where's the fire? (Score:4, Informative)
Untrue (Score:5, Informative)
Heck, that measly 9 Billion in cash that was mysteriously "misplaced" in Iraq last year would sure as hell do this part of my state a lot of good. And that is only a veritable drop in the bucket.
Saying that the Iraq military action is not negatively affecting our economy is simply false. I agree with you about the patent and school systems... but if you want to fix those, right now you would have to talk to the same people who are responsible for Iraq... and the patent situation, and the schools.
Re:Where's the fire? (Score:3, Informative)
There are 21 stops along the Beijing - Shanghai line, over 10 of the stops running through a city with population over 1,000,000. By 2012 it is expected to carry 1000-1200 passengers on each train. There should be over 100 trains departing daily. During peak hour, as often as 3 minutes per train will leave the station. Annual capacity one way will likely reach 80mil each year. Estimated ticket price is under US$100. Whole trip will take more than 5 hours.
The current environmental issue is the chronic sufferings of the Homo Sapiens within the train. The train system in use is now running 4 times above the average capacity.
Re:Where's the fire? (Score:4, Informative)
There aren't any in the UK (small country), but they are much more popular in the rest of Europe.
They are very common in Switzerland, which is a much smaller country, but for different reasons.
A lot of mountain passes are open for cars maybe 4 to 5 month a year and closed due to snow and weather conditions for the rest of the year.
Loading your car on a train may be the only way to get from one place to another by car.
In other cases [wikipedia.org] it may significantly reduce the time required to get to your destination by car.