Unsolicited Offer For My Personal Domain Name? 542
Batzerto writes "Last Friday I received an unsolicited email offer for my domain — click the link below for the message. Their company name matches my domain, but with a country-specific top level domain (.NL in this case). They do seem to be legitimately using the domain in their country. As for my usage, the domain is my last name(.COM) and I'm only really using it for email. I'm not really that attached to it other than the hassle of changing email addresses. There are other flavors of the domain available (.US for example) that would suit my purposes just fine. So, Slashdot veterans, I ask you, what should I do? I'm leery of making an offer and falling into someone's legal trap. I wouldn't mind getting a chunk of cash out of the deal though."
From: ---
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 4:56 AM
To: ---
Subject: sell your domain ?
Dear Sir,
For my company I need the domain --- .
Is it possible to sell your domain to me?
Best Regards
N. de Robles
Re:Turn the Screws on Their Thumbs (Score:4, Insightful)
The offer does seem legitimate, though. Go for it, submitter!
Or you could NOT be a SOB (Score:2, Insightful)
If it's just jokes and crap like that, or even if it is mailing list... why worry to much. Sell it to them with the requirement that you still keep your email address. Even if it is just a redirect.
---
Of course, if there are confidential emails or stuff that would be FYOS appropriate (or that could cause legal problems)... don't do the "keep your email address" part.
Either way... both these options should have been obvious, so it seems that you just want someone to justify your already made decision for you...
you gonna tell us what you are trying to have justified?
Re:On the condition... (Score:5, Insightful)
The world you live in must be nice.
Re:Finally a use for the 'itsatrap' tag (Score:5, Insightful)
This is /., people would rather get wrapped up in a 1/1,000,000 chance of something being a big trap than suggest this guy try and profit.
I've sold three domains I was legitimately using and made a pretty nice wad of cash. They all initiated with similar emails. The highest one being $19k USD.
Let fear reign and opportunity escape.
Re:Finally a use for the 'itsatrap' tag (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you wanted to be really evil and as much of a bastard as a typical domain squatter for some reason, then sure. But why? By doing what you've suggested, you also end up polluting Slashdot, CNN and Google with crap, which is no better than your average link spammer.
There are many domains which people own that they're not particularly attached to and would be happy to sell. For someone looking in from outside, it's reasonable to think that this might be one of them, particularly if it's not immediately clear that the person's using it. (Lack of a website would imply this to some people.)
All they've done so far is politely ask if they can buy it. The request was short on words but that looks more like translation issues rather than an angry demand to hand over from a corporation full of lawyers. It could just as easily be someone's small family business which thought it'd be useful to have .com on the end of their name. How else are they supposed to find out if the owner's interested in selling if not by asking?
Sales 101 (Score:5, Insightful)
Tell them you'll entertain offers. If they throw out a number, it can only go up. If you throw out a number, it can only go down.
Offer to Post Link (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:On the condition... (Score:5, Insightful)
yeah and i was thinking from the POV of the business. They are going to support this guy who they bought the domain from. the guy doesn't work for us, we don't know him at all and he's going to be able to send out valid emails from my companies domain.
No thanks. Pass.
Re:Turn the Screws on Their Thumbs (Score:5, Insightful)
And I would certainly mention that you own it because it is your name. That would give them the reason why you have it, and that you aren't trying to squat on it.
Everyone's talking about lawyers and whatnot... what happened to just being polite? I guess lawyers have ruined that too.
On that note, I wonder if it would hurt your case that you posted the question to Slashdot? It's not hard to figure out the site name as others have posted it already, which would turn up a search result... you get the picture.
DNS is your friend (Score:5, Insightful)
Keep it, but offer to lease DNS records to them. Basically, rent "www IN A ....." while keeping control of the domain itself.
No, not likely (Score:5, Insightful)
Legal proceedings are expensive, lengthy, and not guaranteed. Thus a company would rather pay a reasonable sum to just get what they want, rather than have a fight. If you make them a reasonable offer, maybe a grand or two for your trouble, they'll likely accept.
The company my father used to work for went through this. They wanted a domain that a guy had. So they contacted him and offered him $10,000. They figured, as it was just a personal site, that he'd jump at it. It was an easy way to get what they wanted, and not a lot of money in the scheme of a company's operations. However, the guy decided that he wanted millions. Well, then they took him to court and won. However it probably cost them over $10,000 in legal fees.
So, if you respond with something like "Yes I'd be willing to sell my domain. However, there is going to be some inconvenience in dealing with a transition. So if you'd agree to $2000 to cover my expenses, I'd be happy to sell." I'd bet they go for it. That's not expensive to a company, and it makes everything real easy.
Squatting (Score:2, Insightful)
This happens all the time when a company is looking to increase it's brand name in some way. So say your name is Tesla and you have a hobby in model railroading and you have a url that is www.teslarr or www.teslarailroad or some such thing. A company starts up, making railroad cars, their name is Tesla and they want to buy your domain name - happens all the time.
For the OP, do some research and find out what others are selling (the real squatters) domain names for and that should give you a ball park.
The other thing to consider is licensing your domain name to them - i.e. you keep the domain name and let them use it. Of course that all hinges of you being able to show email usage for some time so that you aren't accused of fraud.
----- There my six cents worth (two cents adjusted for inflation and the price of crude)
Keep the domain name (Score:3, Insightful)
Similarly, there's a chance that the company will grow much larger in the future and their buy out offer will increase. Consider it an investment.
Simply add a redirect link at the top of the page. "Perhaps you were looking for company X? They can be found at [their URL]."
Be smart (Score:3, Insightful)
If you only use the email then
keep the MX record pointed on you server.
An the rent them the domain for there web server.
The lawyers are not completely to blame. (Score:4, Insightful)
No need to be....... (Score:5, Insightful)
......a dick.
Seriously. We all complain about the bullshit that surrounds us on a daily basis here at /. yet we see posts like the 1st one up. I am hoping he was being funny/sarcastic (as he was properly modded).
Try being the good guy, write them an HONEST email explaining your concerns, and ask them for a reasonable offer. You will always retain the right to reject (unless you foolishly give it away). So, what have you got to lose by being honest about things up front? IF, and I emphasize, IF, it ends up in a courtroom, you will have already scored some points in that you will be able to prove a good-faith effort to remedy the situation.
While I can agree with the "talk to a lawyer" suggestions, to some extent, I do feel that lawyers are sometimes wholly unnecessary and are merely a moneypit. Send the email, get a response, and then decide whether or not a lawyer is called for. And don't forget your gut. It talks to you. Listen.
Maybe the sender is lonely and wants a response? (Score:5, Insightful)
The letter is very unbusinesslike. Its grammar is poor. It doesn't have the 'look and feel' of something legitimate. Most interestingly, the email conveys absolutely nothing to identify the potential purchaser.
If somebody doesn't have the time or ability to compose a good email, I would suspect that they wouldn't have the money to fund a substantial domain name purchase either.
If somebody isn't going to tell you (verifiably) who they are, why would you want to do business with them?
This smells bad.
Re:.us? (Score:1, Insightful)
And you're concerned about idiots being able to email you why?
Try to help them out (Score:5, Insightful)
Think about it from their perspective. They're probably worried they're missing out on a small number of customers who inadvertantly go to your site instead of theirs.
I would guess their lost revenue is low to very low, so don't get greedy. There are plenty of reasonable alternatives that could be worked out to make you both happy. Examples:
A priminent link on your website to theirs would be my favourite - sell it to them as 'advertising space' or donate it if they seem nice and you can't be bothered collecting a few dollars.
Offer to sell them a HTTP redirect service and keep the domain yourself.
Sell them the www subdomain but keep the MX pointing to you.
Sell them the domain and ask for an email alias.
Think of it as a normal business transaction between two individuals. Bargain in good faith and you're not opening yourself up to much legally. Try to charge something outrageous and you're likely to fall foul of the squatter rules.
This happened to me (Score:5, Insightful)
This happened to me back in 1999. Actually, it happened to me a lot, but 1999 was when I finally won the domain name lottery.
I told him the same thing I tell everyone who asks: "Well, I'm not really looking to sell my domain name but feel free to make me an offer."
He said, "I'll give you $5000."
I said, "That's a reasonable offer, but I have both the .com and the .org and I'd want to sell them as a pair."
He said, "Okay, I'll give you $5000 each."
I said, "That's a very fair offer. I need to think about what it would take me to change my address and migrate everything off the name."
A week later he called and asked for my decision. I said, "You made me a very fair offer. I'm still thinking it through. Give me a little more time."
A few days later he called and asked for my decision. I said, "You made me a very fair offer. I'm still thinking it through. Give me a little more time."
He said, "Look, I need to move forward, have graphics made for my business and so on. If you'll decide now, I'll double my offer."
I said, "Give me one hour. I'll call you back in an hour."
An hour later I said, "$20k? Done."
Down payment on my house, right before the real estate market headed for the sky.
Re:No, not likely (Score:5, Insightful)
What people don't seem to understand is that really, in the scheme of things, if I own something it is mine. The legal system should protect that. If I don't want to sell it, then I don't, in most cases, have to. One way of saying I don't want to sell it is to offer it for an insane amount of money.
Taking used to be used primarily for government sponsored project. Now it is used because some random company thinks that just because they can make money with a property, they should own it. This is why this question came up, and why the guy should try to protect himself. It is your domain name, fair in square. Even if you are squatting, there is a element of possession being nine tenth of the law. As the parent indicate, there are people who will do anything to take things that they want, unless the owner is willing to accept a token amount to 'voluntarily surrender the property'. This is not good. Sure, maybe trademarks need to be protected, but if my name is Coke, is there some fundamental reason why the beverage company has a higher claim on it than I do? If I had the foresight to register the domain, should I not be allowed to profit off that foresight? Is there something in the free market that one is allowed to make money unless it pisses off the multinationals?
Re:Turn the Screws on Their Thumbs (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a trademark issue. If you ask for money for a domain name that includes their trademark, then they have a legal case against you for domain squatting.
Not if they came to him first. And not if his name is the same as theirs. I can open a store called "Paul Robinson's Department Store" and the currently existing Robinson's Department Store (actually J.W. Robinson or Robinson-May depending on what part of the U.S. they're in) chain has no grounds to stop me (especially if I included the note "Not affiliated with the J.W. Robinson Co." on the entrance door of my store); one may always use one's birth name (or married name in the case of a woman, since men don't change their names when they get married) to do business even if it is identical to an existing company in the same line of business.
Further, they would have to argue that they are well known in the United States and also that he has no legitimate use for the domain. As I just pointed out, one always has a legitimate use of one's own name.
Re:Turn the Screws on Their Thumbs (Score:2, Insightful)
No. When a big corporation is involved, you have the right to take it up the ass and then say "thank you" afterward. That's the extent of your "rights". After all, this is a free country, which means you are free of all dignity, privacy, and control over your life.
Haven't you been paying attention?
*NEVER* throw out a number (Score:5, Insightful)
If the domain were just his name, none of this would matter. But the fact that the company's name matches the domain makes it a potential trademark dispute, so you must be mindful of ICANN's Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy [icann.org]. It explicitly lists several types of "bad faith" registrations, and the first one is acquiring a domain primarily for the purposes of selling it. If you throw out a number, that can be interpreted as evidence of intent to sell, and thus bad faith and grounds for losing your domain.
Instead, get them to make an offer first. Something like, "I hadn't really thought about selling it, but my bills have been getting kind of high recently. How much were you thinking?" Although the most bulletproof is, "Sorry, not interested" and hope they make an offer.
Go to Moniker's domain auction site [moniker.com] for some ballpark figures of how much domains similar to yours are selling for.
Re:Turn the Screws on Their Thumbs (Score:5, Insightful)
If you use it for email, you could possibly request that they forward mail to your username for a certain period of time, as part of the sale agreement.
Re:Finally a use for the 'itsatrap' tag (Score:1, Insightful)
Ask Uzi Nissan that question and see what answer you get.
www.nissan.com
Re:Turn the Screws on Their Thumbs (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Turn the Screws on Their Thumbs (Score:5, Insightful)
When Shakespeare wrote "first kill all the lawyers"* his ire was somewhat misdirected.
You know it was Jack Cade, the villian of the piece, that said this right? In a bit of exposition establishing him as a braggart and buffoon? Is attributing to authors quotes from their villians out of context really a good practice?
Re:Turn the Screws on Their Thumbs (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, you can just write them a polite email informing that you use the domain and it is not up for sale. However if they really need the domain, and are willing to recompensate you for the hassle of moving to another domain, you would be willing to help them out.
"It's not for sale, except if you offer me big $$$". What does that make you? Not respectable, I would say. Nothing against selling the name in itself, but don't play childish games (the only reason for which is fear of legal trouble, apparently).
Only in the US could such a simple situation (one party wants to buy, the other wants to sell) be complicated by the fear of losing a lawsuit.
(I know, say something bad about the US of A and be modded down, so be it.)
Re:Turn the Screws on Their Thumbs (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a good thing he didn't start an argument with the guys who make Uzis. Though getting shot might be a better way to go than being run over.
Been there... got the legal papers to prove it. (Score:4, Insightful)
I also own the .com version of my name. In my case my last name is the name of a company that does about $100 million a year and has had a trademark on my name and a few versions of it for over a 100 years.
I can tell you for a fact that companies that are serious about getting your domain name do not send you a polite email asking to buy it. They have their agent or lawyer send a registered letter and follow up with a phone call.
Most likely the guy who contacted you won't pay you enough to make it worth the hassle of changing your email address. But, speaking as someone who has turned down offers ranging from a couple of shirts (no, I am not making that up, they were very nice wool shirts...) to $20,000 for my domain name and as someone who has been threatened with being sued over my ownership and use of the domain name 6 times over the last 12 years here are a few things to think about.
1) It is your name. (The web cred for being first-name @ last-name . com is incredible.)
2) It will only become more valuable with time.
3) Don't fall into the nice guy trap. You are not doing this guy a favor, he doesn't give a shit about you. This is no different than if someone walked up and offered to buy your truck. (That has happened to me too.) You have something he wants, but you want it too. You do not have to share.
4) Research the company. What does D&B say about them? How much can they afford to spend? How much is the domain really worth to them?
5) Never never never tell them what you will sell it for. No matter what price you mention they will make a lower counter offer and will never (well... almost never) pay what you ask. More importantly, they will pay *no more* than what they *think* it is worth to them. If you quote a price that price will be the maximum they will pay. If they quote the first price that price will be the minimum they will pay.
6) If the sale is contingent on your getting a .us domain then make sure you have that domain before you finish the deal. My dear friends went out and grabbed all the names I might want as an alternate domain just so they could use them as bargaining chips.
7) If they make an offer get a lawyer. Do not reply to an offer until you have a lawyer. BTW, a *good* intellectual property lawyer is not cheap The first one I tried to talk to wanted a $30,000 retainer. So, I had to go with a not very good lawyer... BTW, you should note that the cost of a *good* lawyer started out $10,000 higher than anyone ever offered for the name.
My best advice is to send back a polite email asking what he is offering. When the reply turns out to be less than $100 you can laugh, tell the guy to blow you, and at least know you had the fun of getting a personal question posted on /.
Oh yeah... in the end I still own the name and I am in the hole a few thousand for legal bills. I am pretty happy about that. They could have sued (even though they would have lost) and bankrupted me with the legal fees of winning the suit.
Stonewolf
Re:Turn the Screws on Their Thumbs (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The lawyers are not completely to blame. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Turn the Screws on Their Thumbs (Score:4, Insightful)
I know, say something bad about the US of A and be modded down, so be it
Exactly what site do you think you're on? Blaming the US is like blaming religion; it's almost certain to get you modded up, even if it's a non-sequitur or blatantly false.
Re:Turn the Screws on Their Thumbs (Score:5, Insightful)
This is what's wrong with corporations (Score:5, Insightful)
At a certain point, when you realize the guy isn't squatting, you cut him a check for $250K and you're done with it.
Nissan has spent more than that on lawyer's fees and are further from their goal. If I was on the board of directors, I'd ask to have the guy pushing this fired. Not because of the money, but because of poor judgment. If you can't use common sense in obvious things, you probably can't suddenly turn it on for complex issues.
Really, fire the guy at Nissan Motors who keeps pushing this lawsuit, and then pay the guy a few bucks for the domain.
Spam (Score:3, Insightful)
Is that one e-mail all the correspondence you have?
Why are you assuming that this is real? I had an offer for my website a while ago, and I replied, but got no further response.
It became clear to me that it was simply spam, probably sent to the "contact@" address of thousands of sites. By replying, I simply confirmed the e-mail address, and made it slightly more valuable for spam.
Been there. (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't get too excited (Score:3, Insightful)
Until you find out how much they are willing to offer. Just tell them "there is no set price, but you're open to offers."
I've received inquiries like this all the time for some domains I own. The typical offer is about $100.
Foreign entities that happen to match your name (unless your name is Coke or Nike) are unlikely to be multinational fortune 500 companies.
It never hurts to ask for offers, but in all likelihood, you're not going to get rich, nor is it even going to be worth the technical trouble involved in a transition.