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USDOJ Sniffing Google Antitrust Suit, Hires Ex-Disney Lawyer 241

Van Cutter Romney was one of several to write with the story that "The Justice department has secretly hired former Walt Disney lawyer Sanford Litvack for a possible antitrust suit against Google. As reported earlier, the Justice Department is investigating the deal between Google and Yahoo which accounts for 80% of online search advertising. The Wall Street Journal writes today that Justice Department lawyers have been deposing witnesses and issuing document subpoenas for weeks — but that doesn't necessarily mean a case will be brought."
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USDOJ Sniffing Google Antitrust Suit, Hires Ex-Disney Lawyer

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  • And every Tom, Dick and Harry who creates webpages. Oh and Google is competing with Verizon and AT&T... Maybe because Google has so many competitors that the competitors are trying to indirectly litigate.

    I'm not quite a Google fanboi, but I can't figure out how Google is stopping others from innovating.
    • by Quasar1999 ( 520073 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @03:03PM (#24936033) Journal
      Is it just me, or does everything in the US start with secret allegations that are insane, completely disproven before they're even made public, and yet still acted upon fiercly only to suffer humilation in the end?

      Be it military, with imminent threats of destruction from a nation that has no way to harm anyone but themselves, yet turning a blind eye to nations that could (Iraq vs. North Korea for example?)... or be it corporate, where anti-trust is thrown around at google, yet there isn't anything substantial while other companies like microsoft are clearly doing it and are ignored.

      It's an upsetting pattern to watch unfold.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Americaaaa!! Fuck Yeah!

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by afabbro ( 33948 )

        Is it just me, or does everything in the US start with secret allegations that are insane, completely disproven before they're even made public, and yet still acted upon fiercly only to suffer humilation in the end?

        It's just you.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by hedwards ( 940851 )

        This isn't baseless or in any way shape or form non-obvious, I've been expecting this to happen for months. It's a matter of history repeating itself. The same thing happened to MS at approximately this point in it's history. Google has enough power via information and access to information that it was only a matter of time before there was an investigation.

        I wish I could have given you a +5 tinfoil hat, but seriously, the DoJ is supposed to look into these things. The DoJ happens to not have jurisdiction i

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Korgan ( 101803 )

          Surely there is a difference here in that Google's so called Monopoly is borne of natural migration. People use Google because its better than the other options. Yahoo had its opportunity in the 90s and even at the beginning of this decade and did nothing. They could even have *bought* PageRank when Page and Brin first made the sales pitch to them.

          Microsoft is no different in that regard. If it hadn't been too busy looking at AOL and CompuServe and trying to reproduce it with the original MSN, the could hav

    • by Fishbulb ( 32296 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @03:27PM (#24936349)

      My first reaction was that this has Microsoft written all over it (being that Yahoo refused to sell itself to them).

      Microsoft learned a lesson about the DOJ when it went toe-to-toe with it: it's a tool to be used like any other.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by foobsr ( 693224 )
        My first reaction was that this has Microsoft written all over it

        Same with me. My idea is that M$ is starting an international campaign against Google. Hint: Just a few days ago, the TAGESSCHAU (dominant news-show here in Germany) warned against using Chrome on the basis of an 'official' statement of some gov institution describing Chrome as an immature product, at the same time mentioning that no one company should have a monopoly on data. I do not recall a similar incident regarding M$.

        CC.
    • Well, here's how (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Moraelin ( 679338 )

      Well, last time I read an analysis of the surrealistic attempt by MS to buy Yahoo, it apparently involved a patent actually. Some small company had come up with a ludicrious blanket patent on, basically, AdWords. If you automatically match keywords to serve an ad, congrats you infringe on it. Yahoo bought them. Yahoo apparently licensed it to Google, but refuses to license it to MS for any sum. So basically it's in a position to block anyone it wants to from entering the context-matched ads segment, and doe

    • The government likes to look at market segments and make sure that there is healthy competition in each one. In providing search results, google and yahoo combined ( due to their recent agreement) takes up a huge portion of the market share. Its work keeping an eye on.

      Its worth noting as others have that Microsoft may be behind it. I think there is a tradition of the last big target of the trust busters fingering the next one. Att -> IBM-> Microsoft (and now) -> Google
    • Forgetting innovation for the moment ... Federal regulators had to approve the deal before it could go through. Is the Department of Whatever-Passes-for-Justice-Nowadays saying that the Federal government slipped up in this case? If so, maybe they should be taking a closer look at whoever authorized the acquisition in the first place.
  • by R2.0 ( 532027 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @02:57PM (#24935957)

    1) Google proposes deal with Yahoo.
    2) Federal Trade Commission, the government entity charged with regulating business activities vis a vis anti-trust regulations, gives the OK.
    3) Google goes through with deal
    4) Justice department investigates for anti-trust violations.

    Why does this remind me of when the Big Three were getting sued for the type of airbags that the Feds REQUIRED they install, and not having switches to turn them off which they were prohibited from installing by the same regulations?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by UnknowingFool ( 672806 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @03:44PM (#24936579)

      Technically speaking on the air bag issue, the NHTSA required that driver and passenger 2nd generation airbags be mandatory in vehicles made after 1998. There was some specification on the airbags but where the Big Three were getting sued was that their airbags tended to be a bit more aggressive than airbags made by other manufacturers. There airbags did fall under the NHTSA specifications though. I think the Big Three modified their airbags with kill switches and sensors, etc. Also at the time, it was not recommended that children not be seated in the front seat.

      So on the Google issue, the deal may have been approved by the FCC, but do we know if any laws were broken outside the deal? Remember, MS wasn't prosecuted for being a monopoly but rather for abusing its monopoly power over rivals and partners.

    • by jollyreaper ( 513215 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @04:12PM (#24936939)

      1) Google proposes deal with Yahoo.
      2) Federal Trade Commission, the government entity charged with regulating business activities vis a vis anti-trust regulations, gives the OK.
      3) Google goes through with deal
      4) Justice department investigates for anti-trust violations.

      Why does this remind me of when the Big Three were getting sued for the type of airbags that the Feds REQUIRED they install, and not having switches to turn them off which they were prohibited from installing by the same regulations?

      Oh, I think it sounds more like Google not paying up to the appropriate parties, now here's the threat of something unfortunate happening to their business. Note that Microsoft got off on the anti-trust charges after the bushies came in.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        That's a nice-lookin' datacenter you got there. All hot and loud, runnin' them queries. Be a shame if something were to, eh, happen to it...
      • Note that Microsoft got off on the anti-trust charges after the bushies came in.

        It wasn't necessarily the bushies, it was that Microsoft figured out how to play the game and then played it better than even Enron. [zdnet.com]

        So it may not be that Google has failed to pay off the appropriate parties, just that MS has paid the appropriate parties even more than Google did.

    • by sp3d2orbit ( 81173 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @04:38PM (#24937295)

      This whole thing sounds like something out of an Ayn Rand book.

      When do we get the Equalization of Opportunity Bill?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by recharged95 ( 782975 )

      5) Google makes money off deal.
      6) US Gov't makes money from [winning the] antitrust case.
      7) Lawyers on both side win. (cause lawyers ALWAYS win).

      I see a win-win for both sides. Well, except for the consumer/taxpayer....

    • Why does this remind me of

      Because it's probably pretty much the same thing. Careers get made in big antitrust suits (not to mention a lot of billable hours.)
  • Wierd theory here (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Coraon ( 1080675 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @03:00PM (#24935985)
    Could it be that other are having trouble competing with Google because everyone else has lost touch with their user base but google? The only reason I use google search is because how fast it loads, their main page isnt bogged down with crap that takes time to load, it just loads. If one of the big three had been smart enough to know that the hard core among us just want efficiency and we are the ones that provide word of mouth then they would be a lot better of. Google doesn't prevent competition, it just does things better then the competition.
    • by moderatorrater ( 1095745 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @03:20PM (#24936271)
      Let's not forget that there's no more open and free market than the internet. I can load up cuil and use it all day long if I want to, and any website can go to any ad service they want to. As a matter of fact, you'd have to go to MSN to get an ad into Facebook. There are so many ways to compete on the internet and they cost next to nothing. Now, if Google starts offering discounts for people who only use adwords, then there might be an issue. However, as far as I've been able to tell, they don't, so what's the problem?
      • I have to speak, people keep demolishing the same strawman. If google has a monopoly it is in the search industry, NOT the online advertising industry. The barrier to entry to look at is in building a search engine that can compete with Google.

        Personally, I do not think there is any form of vendor lockin with google and therefore competition is wide open. But building a google class search engine would require millions of dollars worth of networking and data warehousing, and that is ignoring the talent requ

    • by Tim C ( 15259 )

      That's true, but it's rather ironic that in the end I felt forced to block google-analytics.com with Adblock Plus purely because I got tired to pages taking ages to load because of it...

    • by billstewart ( 78916 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @04:37PM (#24937283) Journal

      Google became the dominant search engine for a couple of reasons - not only is it really fast and uncluttered, compared to some of its early competitors (remember Hotbot?), but PageRank did a good job of guessing what pages would be the most relevant and most interesting and displaying them first, and nobody's really caught up with them. On the other hand, they've still only got a bit more than 50% of the market - their two main competitors are staying in business.

      In advertising, which is how Google makes most of their money, Google ads are uncluttered and fast, so they're not as annoying as other ads, making web site authors more willing to carry them, and apparently advertisers think Google does a good enough job of targeting ads to readers that they're more effective than their competitors or have a better price per result or something.

      And unlike Microsoft, where the tight integration between the OS, device drivers, the mail system, the calendar, and Office makes it difficult to leave once you're addicted, it's easy for anybody to use another search engine instead of Google, or for an advertiser to use a different ad agency, and the reason Google stays on top is because they invest enough development money to keep their quality high.

    • Don't forget that you're not Google's customer, you're Google's product.

      The real customers are those who pay for online advertisements and they are likely to see increases in prices if there is less competition.

      That's the basis for the investigation.
       

  • by mangu ( 126918 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @03:00PM (#24936001)

    FTFA:

    a federal antitrust case against Google could set new boundaries for Internet competition, much as the Justice Department suit against Microsoft Corp. a decade ago broke ground applying antitrust law to new technologies

    Yes, and we all know how much that decade-old antitrust suit changed the world...

  • I get the part that Google is monopolizing the online advertising space. But that is no reason to sue them. It's true that they set a high bar for entry into the market and they will continue to do so as long as customers flock to them.

    The only reason for an antitrust suit would be when the company stifles innovation. But if it does customers will automatically move away from them and move to others who have better services. That's simple economics. DOJ doesn't help the process in any way by suing Google.
    • by SirGarlon ( 845873 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @03:26PM (#24936341)

      The only reason for an antitrust suit would be when the company stifles innovation.

      You seem to be confusing "innovation" with "competition." They're not the same, and one does not imply the other.

      • The only reason for an antitrust suit would be when the company stifles innovation.

        You seem to be confusing "innovation" with "competition." They're not the same, and one does not imply the other.

        True enough, although the intent of the Sherman Antitrust Act and similar laws are to prevent harm to the consumer. Stifling innovation or competition does exactly that, harm the consumer.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by bobetov ( 448774 )

      Google, like Microsoft before it (and so forth to before my time) stifles innovation today simply through its existence. It does not require active malice to do harm. Anyone involved in the startup world will tell you that one of the major questions VC's will push you on is how you are Google-proof. I mean, they give away blogging, mapping, email, news, search, 3d visualization, online doc collaboration, etc, etc.

      If you want to start a business today, you have to have some idea why Google won't just Beta

      • It does not require active malice to do harm

        Unfortunately, an anti-trust suit does. A monopoly is only illegal if you leverage it. Simply having one isn't sufficient to run afoul of the law.

        • by bobetov ( 448774 )

          It has surprised me with all the vitriol that Microsoft received for using their desktop dominance to drive IE installs that no one has taken Google to task for using their web dominance to drive Chrome installs.

          • by genner ( 694963 )

            It has surprised me with all the vitriol that Microsoft received for using their desktop dominance to drive IE installs that no one has taken Google to task for using their web dominance to drive Chrome installs.

            Thats because you don't have to install Chrome to use the Google website. You do have to install IE to use Windows,

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by nickspoon ( 1070240 )

            That's simply because they don't. They have a small, text-based advertisement for the Google Chrome beta on their front page, something which they are perfectly entitled to have, in my opinion. They do not bundle Chrome with their products; you are not required to have Chrome to use Google Search, Maps, Earth or anything at all. You are not constantly pestered to install Chrome or hampered by User-Agent restrictions.

            Microsoft, on the other hand, bundle Internet Explorer with their operating system. You have

      • If you want to start a business today, you have to have some idea why Google won't just Beta you into the ground.

        Nope, that's only if you want other peoples' money.

        Google thus prevents innovation through the *possibility* of actions it might not ever take, or might take with only good intentions.

        I'll grant you that there's a risk there, but there's also a reward. Google tends to buy products that mesh well with theirs when they want to enter a market. None of it is for the risk-adverse.

    • by hey! ( 33014 )

      OK, we'll probably go through this about once every decade or so. Last decade it was MS, this one it is Google.

      It's not obtaining a monopoly that subjects you to anti-trust actions. It evading competition.

      So, if you win a monopoly fair and square, bully for you. If you get a monopoly by getting together with your biggest rival and agreeing to cooperate to keep new competitors out ... bad. Using your unique monopoly clout to block entry of new competitors by punishing vendors that work with them ... ba

  • Inevitable (Score:5, Insightful)

    by EvilIntelligence ( 1339913 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @03:06PM (#24936087)
    This was inevitable. Eventually, Google was going to take some steps forward in some area, and somebody was going to panic that it was a "monopolistic" move. Any sufficiently huge company has to deal with that (even Disney had that problem years ago). It will be interesting how it plays out, however. Antitrust suits usually hinge on making sure that the customer is not ripped off. In this case, the customer is not the end-user who surfs the web. The customer is actually the advertiser, since that is where these guys make their money. And the advertisers can still advertise on both Google and Yahoo equally and increase visitor coverage, so it will be hard to prove that the customer has suffered damages.
    • by EraserMouseMan ( 847479 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @03:32PM (#24936401)
      Yea, Google has a stranglehold on Internet search and therefore is in touch with their user base.

      MS on the other hand has a stranglehold on the desktop OS and therefore is an evil monopoly.

      Let's face it folks here's the only difference:
      * Google's monopoly will hurt businesses wanting to buy web ads.
      * Microsoft's monopoly will hurt individuals who use desktop products.

      It just depends on whether you are a business or an individual as to which monopoly you'll feel stung by.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Please do not confuse market share with monopoly. Microsoft has the majority of the market share of the desktop world. But that is not what makes them a monopoly. Where they can be deemed a monopoly is using their position of dominance to suffocate other competitors, such as forcing computer manufacturers to install only Microsoft Office products under the threat that if they don't comply that Microsoft will yank their Windows licenses. And of course any desktop manufacturer that can't include Windows ca
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Chyeld ( 713439 )

        Monopolies are not evil. They are not illegal. They aren't even unethical.

        Hershey's has a monopoly on Hershey's branded candy. Apple has a monopoly on iPods. There are plenty of companies out there that make the only one of whatever they make.

        Anti-trust (actually more appropriately titled 'anti-competitive') legislation isn't designed to prevent monopolies; it's designed to prevent someone using their monopoly in an anti-competitive manner.

        For instance, if you or a group of companies working together contro

      • by ruin20 ( 1242396 )
        Google's monopoly will hurt businesses? how? Google doesn't set the price for their adds, the community does. You pay for your rankings and the result is relative to what others pay for their rankings. So yes, adding more users means more competition which means increased cost for the same rankings but it's not google raising the price, it's the market expansion

        This is different from microsoft setting the price of their product at what the market can bear, but making sure it comes free bundled with every

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by RulerOf ( 975607 )
        That's exactly like the monopoly banks have on electronic transactions through VISA and Mastercard.

        10 years ago, you could do a debit transaction to pay for things with a card at a store... but that was bad, because it costs you money.
        Now, you can do a credit transaction to pay for things with a card at a store... but that is okay, because it costs businesses money.

        People would be all upset if they had to add $1 to the cost of every purchase they made because they used the debit system to pay for things
      • by FSWKU ( 551325 )

        Let's face it folks here's the only difference:
        * Google's monopoly will hurt businesses wanting to buy web ads.
        * Microsoft's monopoly will hurt individuals who use desktop products.

        And THAT is the reason that the suit against Google will move far swifter and with more tenacity than the Microsoft suit could have ever garnered.

        Microsoft Suit: Relax, we've got plenty of time. They're only hurting individual consumers.
        Google Suit: My GOD! They could be hurting COMPANIES! Something has to be done RIGHT N

  • yeah, ok. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SCHecklerX ( 229973 ) <greg@gksnetworks.com> on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @03:12PM (#24936155) Homepage

    How about they fix the M$ problem first? How many companies were destroyed before Linux got a foothold back in the late 90's?

  • It's well-known that Microsoft got off being punished much for monopolistic practices after Bush took office -- the experienced DoJ lawyers were pulled off the case.

    So who did MS pay off but Google not get to?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by smclean ( 521851 )

      So who did MS pay off but Google not get to?

      Ah, but the case is young!

    • I think everyone is missing the real cloak and dagger. What would Bush&co's very own DoJ really really really want for christmas? Why, their very own search engine statistics and spying system.... did you hear that? Was that a shoe?

      After the Google/Yahoo deal was approved, there is no need for the DoJ to be poking their noses into commercial issues unless there is some proof presented to them that harm is being done.... or, unless you can remember that the DoJ is involved with the Bush&co empire.

      Cal

      • by Nimey ( 114278 )

        I suspect there is something afoot here that is worth impeaching a president over.

        HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
        {catches breath}

        You really think /that/ would get him impeached, after all the worse stuff he's done hasn't? I want whatever you're smoking; it must be good!

  • Google are virtually omnipresent because they are just that good. Nothing and nobody is stopping you or anyone else from trying to compete with them, as seemingly impossible a task as that may be. They don't own a patent on the search engine.

    Unlike a certain large OS vendor whose business model revolves around finding new ways to lock customers in, turn open standards into proprietary, patented and licensed rip-offs, and threatening others with lawsuits whenever it feels the need. 235 patents, wasn't it?
  • Note that Sanford ("Sandy") Litvack, now 72 years old, was an Assistant Attorney General for the Carter administration, where he headed the DoJ Antitrust Division. His first job after law school was as a trial attorney for the DoJ Antitrust Division in the Eisenhower administration. This will be his second return from private practice to assist the DoJ.
  • Bill Clinton's administration sues Microsoft for antitrust and wins. George Bush gets into office and pretty much slaps Microsoft on the wrist, calling the law suit a travesty of justice.

    Microsoft gets all upset with Google for being #1 in the Internet search business and making all this money. So much so that they try a hostile takeover of Yahoo and lose.

    So, now, all of the sudden, federal trust busters are snooping around trying to crush Microsoft's biggest competition.

    Stay tuned next week when trust bu

  • They're totally just jealous of Google actually being less than evil and still being successful.

  • is how I can't get on the google party plane [gmailtools.com]

  • What the hell? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anachragnome ( 1008495 ) on Tuesday September 09, 2008 @04:04PM (#24936867)

    Since when does "providing customer with a good product" equate with a monopoly?

    Does that mean that if I am TOO successful in the creation and marketing of my product, I have opened myself up to reprimand/repercussions from the government? Someone help me out here. I simply don't get it.

    If I make something far superior to my nearest competitor, and the entire customer base switches to my product, I've done something wrong?

    Can someone please explain why this is even an issue for Google?

    • It is an issue for Google because they are being attacked by the fascist darkside that can't stand any competition.
    • by oGMo ( 379 )

      Additionally, having a monopoly is not illegal. Abusing a monopoly is illegal. The only thing I can see here is that Google holds a monopoly on online advertising (i.e., >81% of the market or whatever the standard is), and someone's been whining about their practices. It's unlikely to be about anything people normally use, unless they're accused of product dumping (by not charging for services) and stifling competition in the area, but this seems unlikely because really, like TV, users are the product

      • So, in essence, it is simply a backdoor/insider means of using the DOJ as a tool to stifle free-market forces, in favor of Googles competition.

        Sheesh.

        I assumed there was more to it then that, but I have not seen any replies to my post stating otherwise.

        So, who investigates impropriety/corruption within the DOJ? Maybe that is who everyone needs to be emailing.

    • MS apologists used the same argument to defend Microsoft Windows' position in the market.

      Having a monopoly in and of itself is not a crime. Microsoft wasn't guilt of anything by virtue of making a product that most people wanted (or at least purchased anyhow).

      What is a crime is obtaining or maintaining that monopoly with underhanded means. MS did this through their dealings with OEMs, among other ways.

      It is also a crime to use that monopoly to hurt competition in other sectors. The big part of the MS cas

    • You're only allowed to do this, if you're Microsoft.

      Then again saying Microsoft is providing customer with a good product is stretching it.... :-)

      I used Vista for 3 months. I happily upgraded to XP, and here I'll stay. Work laptop... no Linux allowed. Home has a Fedora and an Ubuntu box...

    • by tknd ( 979052 )

      Since when does "providing customer with a good product" equate with a monopoly?

      Google pretty much holds a monopoly in the web marketing segment for pay-per-click advertising. Most web marketing firms will only use Google because their market share is too large it would be stupid not to. The gains from moving on to #2 and #3 players are so small that Yahoo and Microsoft are only thought of if the client has deep pockets for marketing. If Google successfully can maintain the Yahoo deal, they will grab and even large chunk of market share. They are already in snowball mode, it is only a

  • Big deal (Score:2, Offtopic)

    by PingXao ( 153057 )

    I'm going to block ads no matter where they come from, as can any "consumer". All of a sudden the DoJ is concerned about anti-trust violations. This is bad because it means, within the halls of Justice, they see online advertising as "a big deal" while most online denizens detest all forms of online advertising. OK, some of us allow Google's unobtrusive text-only ads through because they're not too annoying, but if that should change then they're blocked too.

    So the "big business" of online ads - that eve

  • ... just the ABUSE of them. Think of all the niche markets where somebody has a monopoly on it. If there is evidence of Google abusing their "monopoly" in search and advertising to get a stranglehold on other markets, then having the DOJ look into it is a good thing. So they've got 80% of the online advertising market with the deal with Yahoo; good for them. Are they abusing it somehow? Artificially inflating advertising prices? Any examples?

  • I agree with most here that Google has not really done anything to make them not trustworthy, especially when compared to MS. And I appreciate the fact that Google re-invests what they make from advertising into some of the best free services online, and that some of these are even open-source.
    However, one area that does concern me greatly is the concentration of all the user and advertiser data in one company. Maybe a break up wouldn't be a bad idea from that point of view. Also, having Google control 80
  • Follow the money trail, and you will eventually find out who is behind all this. I'm willing to bet that no more than 48 hours will go by before something is posted to Groklaw revealing how Microsoft is somehow bankrolling this little expedition.
  • They are parasites whose only mission is to freeload and steal form the brilliant and ambitious. They are parasites, providing for the mobs that empower them, leeches they are. Death to them all.

  • A Disney lawyer? Why didn't they hire Mickey Mouse?

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