Google's Floating Datahaven 450
PDG writes "Google has pending plans to take its data centers off-shore, literally. By moving their data centers to floating barges in international waters, they are able to save money on taxes and electricity (using wave based power) as well as reside their operations outside the jurisdiction of governments. There is mention of hurricane and other caveats, but I wonder how they plan to get a bandwidth pipe large enough and still be reliable. Seems like a chapter out of a Neal Stephenson novel." You might recall earlier discussions on the same subject.
Sounds like a chapter out of Slashdot... (Score:4, Informative)
International Waters?!? (Score:5, Informative)
Erm, considering that national boundaries extend 12 miles from the mainland, that's hardly international.
There is no such thing (Score:5, Informative)
as 'outside government jurisdiction'. A ship HAS to be registered and carry the flag of SOME nation, and it will be subject to the laws of that country. So a ship is no more or less outside the law than if you built your data center in that country.
Supposing someone has a ship which is NOT registered anywhere, then it is essentially 'fair game'. If say the US didn't like what you're doing they can just sail on up and do whatever they want with you. They could certainly board and seize any such vessel, after all who's going to object? In theory there might be some construction of maritime law that provides some protections, but without a government capable of objecting you're basically SOL.
So, there would be no consideration on Google's part of evasion of law. Possibly a way to choose a regulatory regime you like, but that's about it. Plus remember any large corporation is pretty much held hostage to its investors, insurance requirements, financing, and ultimately to whatever nations it has substantial business interests in.
Re:I'm curious (Score:2, Informative)
Re:patent!? (Score:2, Informative)
SeaLand? Prior Art?
Isn't ThePirateBay's attempt to buy Sealand for this purpose good enough?
Re:International Waters?!? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:What a summary (Score:3, Informative)
> which would make Google the first military-capable corporation outside of mercenary "consultancies"
With the exception of the British East India Company, which raised an army of 24,000 within India and which maintained the ``Honourable East India Company's Marine'' of warships. As well as protecting trade against pirates they engaged regular French and Portugese units to ``discourage'' trading in Company areas.
In 1830 the Marine became ``Her Majesty's Indian Navy'' which later formed the cadre of the Royal Indian Navy.
The EIC also funded the building and commissioning of vessels for the Royal Navy to patrol and protect the trade routes back to Blighty.
Re:International Waters?!? (Score:3, Informative)
Erm, considering that national boundaries extend 12 miles from the mainland, that's hardly international.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters [wikipedia.org]
0-12 = territorial waters
12-24 = contiguous waters
24-200 = exclusive economic zone
200-?? = seabed of the continental shelf
International waters technically start 24 nautical miles out, but not if you're fishing or doing any other kind of business.
Bandwidt may be easier than suspected. (Score:4, Informative)
They only have to go 12 miles, line of site. So say they go 20 for good measure. There are plenty of very high bandwidt solutions for that. Or they can run fiber. Of course whatever country their trunk lies in might have more than a wee bit of leverage with regard to how they conduct business and to whom taxes are paid.
Re:In other news... (Score:3, Informative)
I doubt the US govt. would ever hang a company out to dry. Look at all these companies incorporated in the Cayman Islands, but which for all other intents and purposes are US companies. They still seem to enjoy all the benefits of being legitimate. And US ships (flying the US flag) in international waters still seem to enjoy the protection of the US, I'm sure oil drilling platforms are the same.
Even if this story weren't just speculation that will never happen, you know google would be smart enough to somehow make sure they could have their cake and eat it too, like anybody else with enough money to pay lots of lawyers.
chicken little (Score:1, Informative)
get your facts straight. 1 investment bank declared chapter 11. last i checked, 1 differs from several.
this also differs from "the banking system is collapsing".
Re:Yes, because cruise liners (Score:1, Informative)
Cruise ships are flagged under a country, generally a country that has a Navy and has a mutual defense treaty with local governments, i.e. the U.S..
Cruise ships mainly carry passengers from major sea faring powers.
Cruise ships tend to travel in waters that are under the protection of some naval force such as the U.S. Navy, U.S. Coastguard, etc.
Pirates don't hit cruise ships because the return is too low and the risk too high. They may get away with a few tens of thousands in money, jewels, etc. but they will become prime targets of the U.S., Canada, Norway, Brittan, China, etc.
That is why pirates hit cargo ships with millions of dollars worth of goods and a small crew. Even if they kill the whole crew, there will be little outcry, as has been demonstrated and they make a huge profit.
Addendum (Score:3, Informative)
"Or property" is usually specified because people don't necessarily alwys want to kill you, they just want your stuff. They're usually still threatening you to get it, though.
If they're unarmed and not threatening you, like an unarmed burglar, you just point a gun at'em and call the police. Unless you're Texan, in which case they're so very dead.
Re:There is no such thing (Score:3, Informative)
The downside of that is that ruling regulations with regards to safety, environment, etc... are not that of flag nation - but that of the nation that controls the water the ship is operating within. If you fail to comply, and thus represent a danger to persons or the environment in local waters, the nation controlling the local waters is within it's rights to deny you entrance or in exceptional cases seize the offending vessel. (And the US and pretty much every other developed nations exercise those rights on a regular basis.)
In addition, if the ship is insured (and a multi million data center will be), then you have to deal with the environmental, safety, and inspection requirements imposed by the insurance company. And when dealing with Lloyd's or any other major insurer, those requirements can (and often are) quite stringent.
Then there are international conventions such as SOLAS and ISPS...
The freedom offered by a flag of convenience is much exaggerated.
Disclaimer: IANAL, but I have actually studied these issues.
Re:Google & guns Security Theatre? (Score:2, Informative)
First, some URLs:
Long range acoustic device
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_range_acoustic_device [wikipedia.org]
Ship Blasted Pirates With Sonic Weapon
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8DNUV2G3&show_article=1 [breitbart.com]
Sonic Weapons Ward Off Pirate Attack
http://realmwaverider.blogspot.com/2005/11/sonic-weapons-ward-off-pirate-attack.html [blogspot.com]
Does LRAD Work?
http://maritimeaccident.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/does-lrad-work/ [wordpress.com]
Cruise Lines Turn to LRAD
http://www.marinelink.com/Story/Cruise+Lines+Turn+to++LRAD-200811.html [marinelink.com]
This is almost a Security Theatre/Boondoggle Exercise all over again.
Any pirates wanting a particular ship, or even a random one that is known to be equipped with sonic blasters, but not protected by specially-trained anti-piracy personne with long-range weaponry will only need to fire RPGs, or laser-guided weapons, or use sniper rifles with HE/AP shells to take out the expensive, lone sonic mount. Even a frag blast *near* it may send it off-kilter.
To pull this off is a no-brainer. Typically, pirates already send one to 3 boats ahead of the target lying wait in the dark. They already would have paid out (dispensed) a line rigged between them as they separated sufficiently to ensnare the target. The target craft/vessel encounters the line, and forging ahead, draws the pirates in closer. They pirates use suction cups or grappling hooks, or some combination thereof and scale the hull.
Now, using sniper rifles with NVG-enhancement type equipment, a few well-placed sniper-fired rounds from one or more craft can take out the LRAD mounts -- unless so many multiples (fakes) are emplaced so as to cause the pirates to fire enough rounds do betray their location. Smart LRAD emplacements will have gear to detect and localize the source of incoming fire and train the operational/real LRAD to that bearing and elevation and dwell on the target. But, in congested areas, like the Strait of Malacca, using the LRAD can quickly become illegal if locals are sickened, ship-wrecked or otherwise harmed.
For a more recent article (but not one containing countermeasures such as mine, which anyone with half a brain can adduce/deduct/produce/educe in 45 seconds), see:
Maritime Reporter & Engineering News (www.marinelink.com) August 2008
If you are a sailor/yacht operator, you've probably already read:
"The New Piracy"
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v25/n24/glas01_.html [lrb.co.uk]
"Dangerous Waters: Modern Piracy and Terror on the High Seas", By John Burnette (I bought my copy in 2003)
http://www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Waters-Modern-Piracy-Terror/dp/0452284139 [amazon.com]
Re:Welcome to the U.S. culture. (Score:3, Informative)
Someone wants to steal from you, harm you or something like that? Stop him. That doesn't mean "use deadly force". Try to talk to the guy in order to reduce the tension. That doesn't work? Just shoot his legs, punch him in the throat, kick him in the testicles or use any other non-deadly ways of -STOPPING- him.
Very, very bad advice.
The first part is good: If you can defuse the situation verbally, great. If that doesn't work, though, and the only way you can stop it is by resorting to violence, your suggestions are all bad, in the average case.
IF you're very sure that you can take him in hand-to-hand combat, then that's a reasonable approach. How do you know that you can, though? Unless you're a martial arts expert, there's always the possibility that he knows more about fighting than you do, which will result in your stuff being gone AND getting beat up. Maybe beat to death, depending on what sort of fellow he is.
Shooting the legs is never a good idea. If you draw and fire a gun, you're employing deadly force, whether you intend him to die or not, and whether you hit or not. If you're not legally and morally justified in escalating to deadly force, DON'T. Let him take your stuff. If you are justified, then don't mess around shooting at legs because (a) you'll miss, (b) your bullet may hit someone ELSE, (c) if he has a gun he's going to draw and start shooting back, and you just gave away a tactical advantage, (d) if you don't miss, he may still die (there are some big blood vessels in the legs) and (e) even if he doesn't die, you may still face attempted homicide charges.
For many of the same reasons, warning shots are a bad idea, and even making threats with a deadly weapon is usually a bad idea.
Try to avoid ever getting into a situation where you have to use deadly force, but if you end up in one, where if you don't someone will be seriously hurt, or will die, then don't screw around with half measures. In that situation, your goal is to cause repeated major trauma to vital organs until the threat is stopped.