Peru To Be First To Put Windows On OLPC Laptop 292
Da Massive writes "The government of Peru will run the first ever trial of the One Laptop Per Child association's XO laptop running Windows XP. This puts the nation at the heart of a software controversy that has been raging for years between those who advocate making software and its source code free, such as Linux OS developers, and those who charge for software and keep the development recipes secret, such as Microsoft."
Controversy? What controversy? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Controversy? What controversy? (Score:5, Interesting)
Drivers (Score:5, Interesting)
What about drivers? Windows has very few drivers compared to Linux, so won't this have only minimal support for extra USB devices? I don't think 3rd party drivers will work on the OLPC.
Re:Be careful in your advocacy (Score:4, Interesting)
It's okay for kids to learn how to use Microsoft software. Microsoft knows that they have to provide educational software for that to happen. They couldn't sit back and allow Linux to dominate that market. The Egyptian and Peruvian governments believe that their children must learn how to use Microsoft software, since it's dominant.
It's easy to imagine that it will all go wrong in the future, and maybe it will. One good thing is that if XP on the XO fails, it'll be easy to install Linux on those machines. So Microsoft can't afford to boost the project at the start, and then let it die. If they do that, Linux will take over. Microsoft will have to commit to this project for years to come.
This will also allow direct comparisons between countries which give their children XP XOs and countries which issue Linux XOs. If the Linux ones are working well and the Windows ones are breaking too easily, it'll look very bad for Microsoft. Conversely, if the Windows ones are working well and the Linux ones turn out not to be doing the job, then future countries might like to choose Windows for their XOs.
The XO project has forced Microsoft to directly compete with Linux on the desktop. This is a battle that Microsoft must win. But can they do it?
Re:The Goal? (Score:4, Interesting)
No--but this guy [codinghorror.com] will.
Re:pilot project of Microsoft, not Peru (Score:2, Interesting)
Well thanks for clarifying that...my first thought was wtf are they doing this for when Peru already passed a law [slashdot.org] favouring open source three years ago.
Unfortunately, the Software was Poor (Score:2, Interesting)
Now, maybe if somebody had got a clue, looked around the free software landscape and pre-installed some of the great educational software we have (KDE's EDU suite of apps, for example) that Microsoft couldn't pre-install by default on XP, that would have been worth something to a lot of people. If Negropante had any vision, he would have really put effort into the software, and even if Windows XP was pushed people would have used the free software anyway - because it was so good. Alas, another opportunity has been missed.
If I was paranoid... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:pilot project of Microsoft, not Peru (Score:5, Interesting)
Here in Nepal, where our grassroots organization has started a pilot project, there's as of yet not all to much help from OLPC, except from IRC and mailing-list traffic. Also Sugar for example is now handled by an independent organization called Sugarlabs, even though the developers of OLPC and Sugarlabs still work together.
So there's at least three parties, but usually the playing field is quite a bit more complicated in a deployment zone (rivalling hardware vendors, the relationship between grassroots organizations and governments, elections, etc...), and all players can mix and match with others. We for example can run our educational software on a classmate if we want or need to. And Sugar is on the way to be ported to other platforms. Windows can run on the XO...
Also the headlines about the XO lately make it seem like Windows has already won the race. But the reality atm is that there are 55k Linux/Sugar XO's are being shipped every month and a stable, workable Windows on the XO is still a few months away. Also the new round of Give One Get One will contain Linux, not Windows. And I have yet to hear of a confirmed large scale XO deployment with Windows on in stead of Linux.
Re:Controversy? What controversy? (Score:3, Interesting)
I thought the main goal was to bring affordable laptops to children around the world, and that OSS was just a means to an end.
Re:Drivers (Score:3, Interesting)
If you've ever had the experience of trying to install XP on a laptop when XP knows nothing about the network device, and you can't find your disk then you would know what GP was talking about. Boot up a Linux Live CD and download the driver is about the only solution unless you have another PC around to retrieve the stupid driver.
It's rare to find hardware that doesn't work in Linux, and also rare to find hardware that works out of the box with XP these days.
Re:The Goal? (Score:4, Interesting)
Given that this was chosen by Peru for Peruvian children I'm sticking with yeah, it is better than nothing. I honestly don't care what it runs - but I defend Peru's freedom to select their operating system that they want to use for their children. You're talking to someone who makes the vast majority of their living from Linux. (Click my homepage link.) Your talking to someone who's contributed financially and code-wise to OSS for years. You're also talking to someone who actually manages to use Windows in the home because that does what he wants it to do how he wants it to do it.
There is no winning OS. There is no right or wrong when you compare proprietary vs. open source when the chips are down. What matters is that the job is done, done well enough, and that the people are getting what they want done how they want to do it.
My posts are clearly defending getting these tools into the hands of children regardless of what they run. For someone who is boosting the idea of Linux as a choice you seem to neglect the idea that other people make choices other than your own. They selected Windows. For better or worse, that's their choice. For someone who seemingly advocates freedom you don't seem to want to allow others the freedom to make their own choices.
You know what? Linux *does* offer searching, email, and educational software. Guess what? So does Windows. So does Amiga. So does RiscOS. So does FreeBSD. So does Mac. The small percentage of children who would understand and desire to alter their software at the OS level can and will find a means to do so regardless of the OS. That's what enabling them with a search engine, wikipedia, slashdot, and email will give them REGARDLESS of the operating system.
I know, for a fact, that if you drive an automobile and are not a mechanic you don't even begin to comprehend everything that goes on to get your automobile in motion. You probably understand the physics of a combustion engine but you sure as hell can't adjust the timing, change out the O2 sensors or calibrate them, and surely don't know what the OBDCII is doing to get the readings. Joe Six Pack Peruvian Style hasn't got to know those things to drive from one place to another to learn more and advance their knowledge. To think that they do is asinine, ignorant, and counter productive. If he wants to be a mechanic he can take his learn and to think that if he chooses he can't out a different OS on their instead of XP is just plain ignorant beyond all compare.
And yes, yes I did donate to OLPC - twice. If they put a GPS locater in there I'd buy one for myself in a heartbeat just to have one that didn't go to my children so that daddy had a new toy. STFU or put up. Start your own project if you want but to belittle the people putting technology in the hands of those who need it most because of your misguided sense of right and wrong shows how much of a cretin you are. You're probably the type of person who would tell a starving child* that they can't eat at McDonalds because you don't agree with their capitalistic ideals or because you feel that you have a moral right to tell them that they can't eat meat. There is such a thing as morals and ethics but when those actually hinder people instead of enabling them (however slight) you should stop imposing them.
*By starving I mean really starving to the point of exhaustion and near death not your likely misinterpretation of being hungry 'cause you haven't had a fucking pastry in the past 3 hours.
Re:The Goal? (Score:3, Interesting)
That is the only arguement that makes sense. Rather than the closed source vs. open source that one makes sense. In this case I have to say that there's enough freeware to make this work and given the publicity this is bound to be something that Microsoft does at little or no cost. (They do that you know... They do it to encourage adopting their platform of course but a business choice is not always a choice without ethics.)
As I responded to another poster... This is not ideal. Ideal is not something we often get in the real world. It is better than nothing in my opinion but that's just my opinion. I'd be more worried about the initial impact - how many children do not get a laptop because of the added cost? A small percentage will have a desire to get into the OS code but, to me, that's acceptable. The matter of initial cost is probably not as high as we're thinking at this scope.
Re:The Goal? (Score:3, Interesting)
I tried to send my original G1G1 OLPC to a Kenyan orphanage. The first thing they asked me was if they could use it to manage their financial spreadsheet - they specifically wanted Excel. They also had data access via cell phone, but the WIFI was of no interest. The Windows laptop they had fit the bill just right.
Re:Speak for yourself (Score:5, Interesting)
The difference is...
The C64, VIC20, PET etc all dropped you into a BASIC interpreter and encouraged you to learn how do do more than just play prewritten games.
Windows actively discourages you from doing this, even trying to view a list of system files is greeted with a "this is dangerous, dont do this" warning.
Commodore were very good in that respect, even the later Amiga systems came with simply instructions to copy the workbench disks, and then declared you can do anything you like to the copy and encouraged you to do so, worst case you simply go back to the start and make a new copy of the originals.
Flash Support. (Score:4, Interesting)
Flash Support?
Now that's low.
So Microsoft is using the fact that the Linux/Sugar combination doesn't support a competitor's product (which they're trying to kill with their own product) to convince governments to use Windows machines?
That's some crazy marketing sauce, but whatever works I guess.
Personally my XO will be running gNewSense shortly.
Re:Controversy? What controversy? (Score:2, Interesting)
both quotes from the OLPC mission page.
If you want to be accurate, a bunch of open source zealots donated to a program who used open source software as a tactic towards their larger strategic goals of educating the world's children. When the organization shifted tactics in order to accomplish their larger goal these zealots got butt-hurt because they never really understood or supported the main point to begin with.
If you can't see the difference between goals and the means used to accomplish them, its not the fault of the OLPC group.
Bingo (Score:3, Interesting)
OLPC has gone from an educational endeavor to just another plain old business-hegemony endeavor.
Re:If I was paranoid... (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, it's quite interesting. I remember when Windows NT used to run on several platforms (Intel, Alpha) and then gradually Microsoft dropped support for everything except the latest and greatest Intel boxes.
Linux, meanwhile, colonized the supercomputer and the embedded markets, and moved towards the desktop from both ends. This is still happening today: most servers run Linux and most smaller devices run Linux.
So both the Cray and the OLPC represent Microsofts attempts to push against this tide, and in some ways a reversal of previous policy. XP was going to be dropped, but now it's too valuable as a lightweight Windows for smaller notebooks.
To be honest, it reminds me a lot of parts of Holland which are 6 meters (that's about 18 feet) under sea level but which are protected by dykes and walls. The sea is rising, the land is sinking, but it's "so far, so good".