New Diablo 3 Images; Design Wins Over Darkness 243
KingofGnG writes "The new Diablo III screenshots highlight the strong chromatic variations existing between the dungeons and the various stages ... It appears obvious, however, that all those details enriching the scenes, the crumbling parapets of the paths within the dungeons, the plants and the ragged drapes lightened by candles, would lose the best part of their raison d'etre if put in monochrome palettes inclined to black."
Screw blackness (Score:4, Insightful)
The ironic thing (Score:5, Insightful)
It's absurd such a small outcry has gotten this much press already.
Good for Blizzard (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm glad Blizzard is sticking to their guns.
I first found out about this when that video was released a week or two ago in which a fan tweaked the official video to show what the game "should" look like instead of the "colorful" look that Blizzard is going with.
I watched the video and thought only one thing: it was ugly. Look, I understand this game is supposed to take place in dungeons and such, but you are allowed to have SOME color. It really pointed out that argument I've seen a few times over the last few years about the recent consoles. They are so powerful and push so many polygons, but they only seem to work when you disable any non-yellow, brown, or grey color.
I've got to say, I really like the look of the Diablo III video and screens Blizzard has made. There are colors. You can tell what's going on. Enemies stand out, the art stands out. It all looks quite good. But at the same time, they didn't go overboard making it look too cartoony. I mean, it doesn't look happy.
I'm glad Blizzard is sticking to their guns despite what some group of hardcore fans says. I'm actually interested in Diablo III. I've never played the previous games, but I'd like to give it a try.
But if it had been that nearly black-and-white mockup a fan made, I'd avoid it. I don't have such a nice computer so I can only view dimly lit colorless environments with very little visible detail.
Darkness (Score:5, Insightful)
The game shouldn't be so dark its hard to see. It should be slightly shadowy in some areas, but otherwise alright as far as seeing goes. Torches/lights should overbright the area a little, rather than making it normally lit. If it were real, you'd be pretty used to the dark, but torches would damn ear blind you.
Re:Screw blackness (Score:5, Insightful)
If all the levels and scenery are dark, the game doesn't feel so dark after a while. You need the bright colorful levels to appreciate the dark depths of diabolical devils and demons.
Re:Anonymous Coward (Score:5, Insightful)
Here Here. How about a Mod redirect the link to a functioning server that's not just reposting official materials.
This is nothing more than an extremely thinly vailed attempt at getting some ad hits.
I liked the shadows (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Good for Blizzard (Score:5, Insightful)
My qualm was really that I felt WoW was bleeding over into Diablo's turf from the looks of the screenshots, but now that I have it in context of the story line I'm not much against the color scheme.
Re:Screw blackness (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus the gritty, dark, angsty look has been done to death.
And the shiny, glowing, neon-stylized atmosphere hasn't? Besides, since when is trying to make a game feel realistic considered overrated?
I like color.
Then go play Warcraft III or World of Warcraft or Starcraft II or... Hm, anyone else notice a pattern here?
The Diablo series has always been about the stark contrast between good and evil, light and dark. The "gritty, dark" look was there for a reason: True evil and it's effects are not clean, nor are they pretty. You can have light and color in the natural and "good" sides of things, and with effects like magic and buffs, but the environments and equipment (unless possible enchanted) should reflect their likely rough and possibly sordid past. Diablo II felt very real; it was anything but stylized.
I'm not advocating such dark environments that you can't see anything, and I don't think that was really a problem with Diablo II (with the possible exception of a small light radius). I don't think they need to replicate the style of previous Diablo games directly, but I DO think they shouldn't just throw them away for the new "oooh, shiny colors!" motif of all Blizzard's newer games. My biggest concern over Diablo III isn't poor gameplay or a bad story, but rather that it's just going to become Warcraft IV and/or Starcraft With Demons.
I like Isometric. (Score:3, Insightful)
I quit gaming a few years ago because I was tired of pour my life energy into the bottomless pit of interactive illusions, but it hasn't stopped me from appreciating a nice bit of design.
--I really like the isometric approach; it allows the design team to use artwork generated by actual painters and illustrators rather than 3D engine-workers. It'll be a neat day when you can create in 3D the same kind of evocative visual character in a tree stump or a bit of masonry as an artist can do with a pencil and few tubes of gauche, but that day hasn't arrived yet. And so, Diablo III is going to look oh-so-much prettier than any 3D game can at the moment.
-FL
The elephant in the room (Score:5, Insightful)
The elephant in the room is that the Blizzard guys probably would have preferred staying true to the dark and brooding atmosphere, but it's no longer possible with todays technology. On panels black is really gray... often not even a dark gray, and then there's the trade-off most panels make in giving up a few bits per colour channel for speed. "Dark and brooding" looks pretty awful on your average modern rig.
Re:Just do it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Screw blackness (Score:5, Insightful)
Sometimes I wonder if all these people complaining ever played the original Diablo. It was much more colourful than the sequel. I mean, the palette seemed to be limited to grey and red for environments, but some of the enemies were practically fluorescent!
In a way this even made certain enemies scarier. It's one thing to have dark enemies appear out of the shadows (also annoying), it's another thing to have enemies that send a clear visual signal: Don't fuck with this!
Re:Screw blackness (Score:4, Insightful)
Fall^H^H^H^HOblivion with Guns. Sometimes it's a good idea to appease the fanboys, because the previous games are already damn fun and well designed.
In the case of Diablo III though, I've looked at Blizzard's reasoning, and compared the images, and overall I think Blizzard has made the right choice. The basic gameplay doesn't appear to have greatly changed - this is nitpicking over a small change in look.
Plus I trust Leonard Boyarsky. He says the colour palette changes in later parts of the game. Kinda like going from pre-Searing Ascalon to post-Searing to Kryta in Guild Wars.
Re:Screw blackness (Score:3, Insightful)
one doesn't exclude the other. as narcberry already mentioned, you need lighter and more uplifting atmospheres in a game to contrast with the darker moments. variety is an important factor in creating an engaging game with long-lasting return value.
this is something that the game developers already mentioned when they ran the photoshop contest. since this is an RPG, players will be expected to put in a lot of hours playing the game--much of which spent level-grinding and doing generally the same repetitive actions. that's why it was important for them to put a lot of variation between different environments.
i don't think there's anything wrong with having a colorful game, but nor is it wrong to have a dark and ominous atmosphere. if all games were bright and cheerful it would become just as banal as all games being dark and brooding.
weaving an epic story is the same whether you're developing an RPG, writing a novel, or shooting a movie. whatever you can do to captivate the audience's attention and really immerse them in the fictional world of your epic is your prerogative. dark and malevolent environments naturally elicit a very visceral response from most people. it would be foolish to forgo such dramatic elements if it's appropriate to your story.
creating a dark in-game atmosphere just needs to be done tactfully. making the entire game dark and gloomy may not be the best choice. and there are many ways to convey an evil or foreboding atmosphere without rendering the game entirely in greys and blacks. a skilled game developer or cinematographer can create a bright and vibrant scene that still exudes an eerie feeling.
Re:Just do it (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Screw blackness (Score:4, Insightful)
I actually went and played Diablo II in the past month, picking it up after hearing great things and seeing the new screen shots. In most dungeons it's not dark at all, but darkness did play a part in some places, with specific gear created for adding "light radius" to your character. I have assumed this was to create a sense of surprise in some places, but not too many. That same surprise can be maintained in other ways in a new 3D environment. I think people concentrate too much on it when the first two were more about story line and fighting large groups of mobs in an RPG setting, gearing your character up, and truly unique environments, especially when you include the expansion.
Since Diablo II is fresh in my mind and an overall great game even today (I play it maxed out at 800x600!) I welcome the new one regardless.
It's not about the palette (Score:4, Insightful)
It's about the art direction overall. Diablo was gritty and realistic. They could make the whole game black and white, but you've still got characters running around in cutscenes and combat that look like they came from Warcraft.
This http://www.diii.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=871&size=big&cat=563 [diii.net] and this http://www.diii.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=703&cat=565 [diii.net] are much more in the style of Warcraft, which aside from the bright and happy palette is the primary reason a lot of folks were surprised when D3 was unveiled.
I know I personally also wanted contrast to Blizzards other work, because that existed before now. Blizzard has amazing artists and they're going to make an amazing looking game, but when all your franchises start looking the same, they become kind of redundant from one another. I think most Diablo fans wanted something hellish, and dark, and corrupt. Gritty and realistic. While the game will look, and most likely play, just fine, the atmosphere is what will be different due to the changes in the look.
I dunno... Something like this http://www.worldart.com.au/images/kris-kuksi-sculpture-surreal-deadly-sins1.jpg [worldart.com.au]
Right now the game looks like it was Disney's take on Diablo, rather than Geiger's.
Re:Screw blackness (Score:5, Insightful)
The more likely reason: CRT monitors and gamma settings. Try playing Diablo II on a modern, bright (sometimes too bright) LCD monitor and it might not seem so "gritty, dark" any more.
Re:Just do it (Score:3, Insightful)
Well there was a bit more to it in Far Cry, as there were differences beyond just color tweaks. For example, Cartoon mode had exaggerated outlines and a subtle cel feel to it, while Paradise had super-bright blooms, more translucent water/leaves and more progressive shadowing. These were pixel shader effects that did much more than simple gamma adjustment.
The same thing could be added to D3, as they almost certainly have some sort of shader-based postprocessing already in place. It would be nice to have different shader programs to choose from, or even offer some relatively simple way for a modders to replace the shader scripts - let them design it to their liking, if they're willing to learn HLSL
Re:Screw blackness (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps an author is writing a sequel to a popular series -- just because fans are clamoring for a scene they've always wanted to see or something they want to learn doesn't mean the author is obliated to put that stuff in to satisfy them. It's ultimately made by the author, not the fans.
One word. Misery
Re:Screw blackness (Score:1, Insightful)
It's more along the lines that if everything is dark, and brooding--the game starts to become oppressive and even annoying. A prime example is Doom 3. It's too dark too much of the time and becomes distracting, you want more because you want the environments to be more diverse.
If my character is outside during the day, I want there to be some sun and light. If it's dark all the time, how will I know that this particular part of the outside world is supposed to be more evil than the rest? We need visual cues to stimulate feelings associated with: A nice day, a creepy dungeon, and a night that is dark but not wicked.
With no contrasting or frame of reference, the environments begin to feel too contrived and the suspension of disbelief begins to fade.
Beyond even that, people have certain expectations for environments, and don't consciously expect the world to be dark all the time--evil or no.
Re:Screw blackness (Score:2, Insightful)
The same thing that happens to anything else?
Re:Screw blackness (Score:5, Insightful)
Making truly gritty environments is rather difficult and uses a lot of system resources to do properly. A truly gritty environment for a game like this wouldn't just be gray walls and shadows. A truly gritty environment would be whatever wonderful shiny, colorful environment the place was originally, covered in dust, ash, and general damage.
That's the ideal Diablo environment, the beautiful temple of light corrupted and destroyed, not some dingy dark cave.
Unfortunately doing that is somewhat technically difficult, and personally I'm sick to death of dark dingy dungeon crawlers.
Game Psychology (Score:3, Insightful)
They're expanding the color palette most likely to assist with the pacing of the game, and that constantly shifting contrast ("first you're in a really bright desert, then you're inside a really dark pyramid") propel that sense of progress that players have as they move through the game.
It's one thing to have that gritty, dirty visual style in a dungeon instance that's supposed to last for an hour or two, it's another to have that exact same gritty visual style for the entire several hundred hours that you'll be playing the game.
One of the ways that playability is enhanced, and monotony is prevented is by having that really extreme sense of contrast, as well as the bright color palette.
Furthermore, I understand that most Diablo players don't want a color palette that looks like it was extracted from a Night Elf starting zone, but by the same token I feel like Blizzard wants to reach out to the millions of folks in the WoW contingency that might want to start playing Diablo for the first time if it looks and feels like something they are already very familiar with.
Re:Screw blackness (Score:5, Insightful)
Blizz did give WOW a Warcraft theme and story, but the gameplay is identical to that of Diablo, and it was released chronologically right where you would expect Diablo III to be.
Diablo III, therefore, is actually Diablo IV. It should come as no surprise that the game will look and feel a lot like WOW, which is not only its immediate logical predecessor, but has also been a hugely successful (and profitable) game for Blizzard.
Re:I don't care! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's not about the palette (Score:3, Insightful)
God save us from HR Geiger freaks.
You think that color scheme is bright and happy? What, do you wear sunglasses at night to make everything look darker so it's "more gloomy". That sculputure picture you link to is only black and white with perhaps a bit of grey and ivory! Do you really want to play hundreds upon hundreds of hours of a game that's just black and white? No sun? No grass? No rivers running through an autumn wood? No tropical island with sand and frog-things? No mist green-swathed swamp lit by moonlight?
Re:Screw blackness (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Just do it (Score:1, Insightful)
Or, you know, just adjust your monitor's color balance.
Re:Screw blackness (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but you're talking out of your ass.
The gameplay, and "feel" in WoW are -not- identical to that of Diablo except on the most superficial of levels.
(you click buttons to activate skills oh my! IT'S DIABLO 3)
Seriously.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Screw blackness (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The ironic thing (Score:3, Insightful)
They an do whatever they want with their series, and Sheeple will buy it and proclaim it the best thing ever, irregardless of the fact that the people behind those games are long gone from the company.
and proclaim it the best thing ever, irregardless of the
best thing ever, irregardless of the
irregardless
You're not conformist like those sheeple, you do your own thing, even using words that aren't part of the English language to try to sound smart.
Sure, there's going to be sheeple who use dictionaries, but books are all fact, and no heart.
Re:Good for Blizzard (Score:3, Insightful)
In Dungeon of Doom, an ancient Mac game, if you had high enough strength, you could dual wield 2-handers, with full damage from both.
There were house rules in D&D where you could do this, too.
Yes, it makes a mockery of monks and people dual wielding daggers.
As it should.
Re:Screw blackness (Score:4, Insightful)
Simple gameplay requirements wrapped around plot used as quests to further a "story"?
D2 Check, WoW Check
No actual change to world within persistence of software?
D2 Check, WoW Check
Carrot and Stick Item Collection with non-guaranteed psychology reward system?
D2 Check, WoW Check
"Lots of options" that enable you kill everything in the game in the same end result (0 hp)?
D2 Check, WoW Check
Repeating content for lack of anything better to do?
D2 Check, WoW Check
Increased difficulty of game in "epic" areas accomplished by giving the bad guys more hit points and making them do more damage (or letting them just kill players outright)?
D2 Check, WoW Check
Expansion packs claiming new awesome features that don't actually add new awesome features and really is just a rehashing of the same game with different graphics?
D2 Check, WoW Check
And the last, but you get the point...
No way for the players to ACTUALLY influence the progress and development of the world?
D2 Check, WoW Check
Re:D3 at least has destructible environments (Score:3, Insightful)
Eventually, you'll run out of Chapters in D3 and you'll level a character and then you'll start a new character or you'll restart on a different difficulty, and the world will reset. It is not persistent beyond your play session.
The only event(singular) that I recall from WoW that changed the game world was the opening of the Gates of (Insert faux Middle East name here). And as far as events go, that was pretty weak. You get to run around and grind resources and whoever grinds the most resources first... gets nothing. The gates will open for everyone when they grind enough resources (and then eventually for everyone else who doesn't want the carrot).
But I really can't blame Blizzard for what they're doing. I would propose that writing an interesting world that actually has 10,000,000 people running around in it and making some kind of difference is pretty much impossible at this point.