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O3B Details Plan for Satellite-Based Bandwidth For Africa 94

Posted by timothy from the no-copper-to-dig-up dept.
slash-sa writes "O3B Networks has been quietly preparing itself over the last 12 months for the moment last week when it announced that it was going to be offering cheap, low-latency satellite bandwidth that can cover any part of Africa by 2010. It has put in place early finance with Google, Liberty Global and HSBC. Here are more details from the entrepreneur behind the project, Greg Wyler."
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O3B Details Plan for Satellite-Based Bandwidth For Africa More

O3B Details Plan for Satellite-Based Bandwidth For Africa

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  • Boom time (Score:3, Interesting)

    by gevreet ( 1295795 ) on Monday September 29, 2008 @02:50AM (#25191253)
    With many african states effectively landlocked and with poor or insecure infrastructure this could be the data boom that africa has been waiting for. That is if it isn't choked off by self serving governments.

    • Maybe its an improvement, but its still total crap. It can only hope to benefit foreign nationals, and the bastards with their feet on everyone else's necks. Random micro-grants and Peace Corps funding cannot make this viable for the people in Africa who really need it anytime soon.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by bschorr ( 1316501 )
        Well, what would you prefer to see instead?

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Kintanon ( 65528 )

          I would prefer to see most of the interference with local economies stopped. UN food donations destroyed the economic viability of local farmers and put them out of work. Continued interference and improved prenatal care from UN medics and US Missionaries is resulting in more babies being surviving. US missionaries reinforcing the local taboo against condoms has done nothing to help the birth rates or slow the spread of AIDS on the continent. The result is a place where the average life span for people who

          • I agree. A lot of aid given to africa is never seen by africans that need to be aided. Who do you think in africa, who has good intentions for the general populace is going to be able to price an internet service, and provide that service to the impoverished status quo, without being turned financially inside out? As far as I understand the situation, the answer is no one. All it does is give those with enough resources and political power to flourish in africa (the bad guys, and foreign ex-patriots) more

      • I really disagree. Some schools in Africa have satellite internet access already.(I know of at least 2 in Malawi, that's the only place I've spent much time in Africa, though) This will simply make it cheaper and faster (they were happy with ~3kB/s).
        While no one will benefit from this right away besides the very rich, it will spread eventually. And while it won't be cheap for a long time, it will be far more affordable to any alternative now.

        Also, while the villagers probably won't be getting internet ac

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by wperry1 ( 982543 )
      Great! Now I can start filtering tons of SPAM from Africa too!

    • With many african states effectively landlocked and with poor or insecure infrastructure this could be the data boom that africa has been waiting for. That is if it isn't choked off by self serving governments.

      Or self-serving search/advertisement giants.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by grcumb ( 781340 )

      With many african states effectively landlocked and with poor or insecure infrastructure this could be the data boom that africa has been waiting for. That is if it isn't choked off by self serving governments.

      Governments are a problem, true. But in my experience, the problem is the telcos. I've spent the last five years helping out in a collective effort to improve communications by liberalising the telecoms market in a developing country. Once we got even the threat of competition into the market, prices dropped through the floor.

      Two years ago, about 30% of the country I live in had access to telephone services. That number is now 85%. The next step is Internet. No sooner did the government announce a new round

  • Might work (Score:2, Informative)

    by djupedal ( 584558 )
    ...since the Chinese are already putting together the ground systems - WIMAX, etc. ZTE has been there since 2006...

  • Mobiles not laptops (Score:4, Interesting)

    by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Monday September 29, 2008 @03:56AM (#25191515) Homepage

    I know that we are techies and we like computers but seriously do we think that the internet is the best thing to get into Africa in a hurry? If you look at what mobile phones have done in terms of communication and micro-payments then its hard to see the point of pushing expensive ($500 in a continent where people live on less than $1 a day) internet access as an important thing. Get the mobile phone network out first. This has the advantage of being lower power and with a built in infrastructure that can help micro-payments.

    Arguing for VOIP and other internet based services as a way that internet access would be better ignores some of the basic economics and the experience of most 3rd world countries in the success of mobile phone communications in helping to raise people up out of poverty. Basic communications (voice) is the first step here.

    So its good that its being done, but it would be nice to see one of these high profile cases actually support an existing approach that is working rather than always going after the "everyone must have a computer" scenario that makes sense for people sitting in an office in California.

     

    • But how the hell will they know who's selling cheap goats and Mefloquine without craigslist? George Jetson never caught malaria, and always had plenty of food pills. Case in point.

    • As far as I can tell, this is a for-profit venture, so while I agree with your point, it doesn't seem to be relevant.

    • Re:Mobiles not laptops (Score:4, Informative)

      by cong06 ( 1000177 ) on Monday September 29, 2008 @05:02AM (#25191741)
      Have you ever been to Africa?
      Imagine this:
      A group of people that want to promote a good organization in the poorest Area of Tanzania. They want a website so they can get support from Americans who are willing to help their cause. Their website will have to be American based because the internet in Africa is terrible, and the fact that they have to connect to it through Cell phones makes it worse.
      Instead this organization has a representative (that's traveling anyway) Upload the data in Kenya where internet is more reliable.

      Now Imagine this:
      A student wants to learn all he can at an affordable price. Text books are expensive and internet is basically not available (and even more expensive). The cheapest way is to have a friend from the states ship CD's of data that the student can then look over.

      And this:
      A Town wants to start an internet cafe, a source of income as well as development for the town. The two options are cellphone usb cards so that the computers hook up to a cellphone provider and use it as their internet (cheap set up, expensive use, price per MB) or Satellite (expensive set up, expensive use, price per Month). Said town is expected to go through a boom with an international airport about to open leading tourists right into the Serengeti. If the internet could be harnessed, this could mean a good economic boom for the town, and the money getting funneled right into the developmental project.

      From my experience in Mugumu, I'd love to have this help them out. (and the airport probably won't yet be finished by 2010)

      • At the pricepoint they have in mind it's going to be pretty hard to afford that without some serious backing to begin with.

    • do we think that the internet is the best thing to get into Africa in a hurry? ... Get the mobile phone network out first.

      What do you mean by "Africa" in this context? it's a vast continent, with a range of economies. I only really known South Africa (one of the better economies) which as two or three decent mobile phone networks. However, due to the large areas involved, you don't get coverage everywhere. Doing this as well as other things would, I think, be a positive thing. The oddest thing about your i

    • Re:Mobiles not laptops (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jotok ( 728554 ) on Monday September 29, 2008 @06:05AM (#25191967)

      You are woefully uninformed about Africa and you are reading into this venture.

      There are places where people are living on next to nothing, but there are also relatively stable places that would benefit immensely from cheap internet as an enabling factor (Ghana, Nairobi, Joburg) for education and business. Look at what hooking up Pune has done for India.

      It seems like any time anyone suggests investing in the tech sector anywhere in Africa, some doofus comes along and links to the Onion's "Tribesman uses modem to crush nut" or talks about how we should focus on "feeding people," whatever that means. You're basically arguing that we shouldn't improve the economy because we need to help the poor instead.

      If you want to get educated, App+Frica [appfrica.net] is a good place to start.

    • Re:Mobiles not laptops (Score:4, Insightful)

      by batje ( 818323 ) on Monday September 29, 2008 @07:28AM (#25192285) Homepage
      I live in Uganda, which is the target audience for these satellites. We have 4 mobile providers, all providing GSM services. Mobile services are covered. What is not provided for is cheap IP. 500USD a month for 1 MB is Cheap. Currently the satellite prices are as much as 9000USD. Which is what our ISP would pay. Imagine our pricing or bandwidth sharing scheme! I am currently on a 64Kbps line for 175USD a month. I have a good deal. While the costs and access to communication services have improved tremendously over the last 10 years, there is a very real and true need for the next step. The step where people here can tap into the immense amount of knowledge that the human species is documenting on the Internet. That knowledge, for a great deal, is out of reach of most people here. And it is that knowledge that will eventually lead to the changes here that are so badly needed. This o3b initiative is the most beautiful gift to the African continent, ever.

    • Mobiles not laptops

      Also, where exactly does the dividing line between laptops and mobile phones lie? They both can run apps and exchange data, including voice data. Project the iPhone, android phone, OLPC and eee pc out for 5 or 10 years and think about what a meaningless distinction it's becoming.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by grcumb ( 781340 )

      Basic communications (voice) is the first step here.

      So its good that its being done, but it would be nice to see one of these high profile cases actually support an existing approach that is working rather than always going after the "everyone must have a computer" scenario that makes sense for people sitting in an office in California.

      There's some wisdom in what you're saying. SMS-based interfaces to online services are way easier to deploy and use in developing countries.

      The big stumbling block is not so much cost as power, by the way. There's always someone willing to fund a computer - and if you can get one, you should, because the value proposition is much more compelling. Computers do so much more than a mobile can (at least for now).

      But what good's a computer if you can't run it? Unless you have reliable, low-cost local power gener

  • say hello to the next generation of call centers. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by timmarhy ( 659436 ) on Monday September 29, 2008 @04:33AM (#25191633)
    you know what all this bandwidth will be aimed at don't you, given the super cheap labor in africa. call centers and telemarketers. not necessarily a bad thing as it'll bring wealth into the nations that embrace it, but incredibility annoying to everyone else.

  • This can not be competitive in any way. A fiber costs very little to roll out, and there is good capacity in ocean fibers terminating in many African coastal cities. The only problem with fibers on land is theft. Anything valuable is stolen.

    More than 90% of the population lives close to the coast.

    To spend millions to build a complicated space based network to cover the poorest of the poorest 10% seems like a very poor investment. (By complicated I just mean that the satellites need to hand a connection betw

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by hcdejong ( 561314 )

      You're going to need a LOT of fibre to connect even 10% of African households (that's 50 million people).

      Also, "More than 90% of the population lives close to the coast." does not seem to be supported by this map of population density [warmafrica.com].

    • There is minimal fibre capacity terminating in the southern sections of Africa. The biggest is SAT-3 and that is pathetic and only lands in South Africa. There are new cables in the pipeline, three under construction, but availability will be limited for the first few years. 2 of the ones under construction are to be dedicated for the 2010 World Cup and may (may) be released when that is over. The other will land in July 2009 and then we have to backhaul the capacity to the inland and distant coastal cities

    • Yup, what is more, a fibre cable already circumnavigates Africa and was paid for by the usual partners: South Africa, Nigeria, Egypt and Portugal. The sad fact is that most of Africa is unable to do anything with it.

  • Harder then it seems, trust me (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jiggerdot ( 976328 ) on Monday September 29, 2008 @05:35AM (#25191853) Homepage
    I currently work for a company providing IP communications via satellite (both inclined and geostationary). Most of our customers are in Africa, and include some of the biggest ISPs in the more developed regions. since the bandwidth market there has been exploding in the last several years. So I know what I'm talking about when I say this guy sounds VERY optimistic.

    The idea of using low earth orbit satellites is great as the latency on geostationary is indeed horrible. you're looking at a minimum of 500ms just to reach the ISP installation (in the US and Europe, in our case) and the RTT to your destination on top of that.If you run into another satellite link on the way, that's 1000ms minimum. so 123ms sounds terrific. BUT:

    1) The guy flippantly says "If they want a gigabit, we'll give them a gigabit". For a gigabit, you'll need to work several transponders, with some insane modulation scheme (highest practical I've seen is 16psk, they'll need something MUCH more dense). The higher they go, the more error prone they get.

    2) LEO will require tracking, or very high power. which means either a very powerful HPA (for the small links - the ones without the 3.5 meter dish) or a very fast tracking system for the large links with the dish. And what happens when you have to switch satellites?

    3) They're looking to solve the last-mile issue with WiMax. This will interfere with C-band transmissions, so I'm assuming they will go with Ku-Band or higher, which is extremll sensitive to rain fade. Africa has quite a lot of rain. Combine this with point no. 1, and you're in trouble.

    4) The article indicates they will give the customer a VAST or transmission station and all is good. It is not. Africa is not a nice place. equipment gets stolen and sabotaged. This is from sad experience. And if you do not have techs on the ground (which are very hard to find, at least competent ones) you're stuck either telling the customer "sucks to be you" or trying to support him through the phone with the replacement of a transmitter, which is a bit like trying to help someone fix an engine by correspondence.

    5) The human factor - Without sounding too patronizing, the guys in Africa (even the more professional ones) need a LOT of hand holding. I truly hope they have a big and competent support department and NOC staff at the ready, who can understand garbled English through a bad phone connection, as these guys will want help with everything. From helping to identify which device in the network is causing congestion on the link, to "IP experts" who will be brought in to bring up a BGP session and will not know how to access the router, and will want your help in resetting the password step-by-step. You can, of course, tell them to manage their own networks, but you WILL lose customers. That's a lesson we learned the hard way.

    In short, good luck to them, but if they truly think the technical challenges are the only ones, they're in for a very nasty surprise.

  • What does this have to do with Apple?

  • Google clearly sees potential for African web access then ... but how do you get it to the consumer if many countries don't have infrastructure or PCs. Unless of course you had a handset you could re-package / re-price in a "stripped out" form that could access it direct? In which case you could get voice - data - and web all from one device, all direct from Google? Of course technically it may not be that easy to create an Android device that could do this - but if it were possible, it'd immediately mak

  • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • This is simply amazing.

    Thus far, radio waves could only travel at 186K miles a second, give or take (depending on a factor called the velocity factor).

    Since they figured out the latency with wireless links (satellite is wireless, after all), I'm wondering exactly HOW they got the radio waves to travel faster than the speed of light.

    I mean, kill the latency, the packets HAVE to be arriving quicker, when the medium is dead space, right?

    Sheesh, marketing speak at it's finest.

    --Toll_Free

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