Norwegian Standards Body Members Resign Over OOXML 208
tsa writes "Ars Technica reports that 13 of the 23 members from the technical committee of the Norwegian standards body, the organization that manages technical standards for the country, have resigned because of the way the OOXML standardization was handled. We've previously discussed Norway's protest and ISO's rejection of other appeals. From the article: 'The standardization process for Microsoft's office format has been plagued with controversy. Critics have challenged the validity of its ISO approval and allege that procedural irregularities and outright misconduct marred the voting process in national standards bodies around the world. Norway has faced particularly close scrutiny because the country reversed its vote against approval despite strong opposition to the format by a majority of the members who participated in the technical committee.'"
Conflicted (Score:5, Insightful)
My first thought was "It's good that these people are taking a stand against injustice.", but my second thought was "These principled people just resigned. Norway's board is entirely corrupt now." Bummer.
Form a new standards body (Score:2, Insightful)
It's a good time to start a new standards body with a new goal.
Re:Conflicted (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Conflicted (Score:5, Insightful)
didn't IBM also resign from ISO over OOXML? i think this form of passive protest is important as it draws attention to the corruption at hand. if nothing else, it's garnered media attention and highlighted how serious an issue this is.
i think all principled members of ISO need to show solidarity and resign together. a mass exodus from the organization would force the industry to stop ignoring the issue. it says to governments and companies who care about standardization that ISO is no longer a legitimate vendor-neutral standardization body.
the next step would be for IBM, the Norwegian technical committee members, and other parties serious about standardization, to form a new organization for promoting international standards--and to make reforms to safeguard against an incident like this from happening within the new standards body.
Re:Can the EU courts look at this? (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not the ISO entities themselves; it's M$ and their hired cronies.
Re:Norway? Does that even count? (Score:1, Insightful)
I mean, Norway? What that is useful comes from Norway? Besides being cold as ice, with a population described the same, what is Norway? I mean, Sweden, OK, it's got a ski team of buxom blondes, but Norway? What is Norway but an ice desert?
Oil, money and hi-tech? Maybe you should think before you write?
How soon people forget ... (Score:5, Insightful)
FTFA:
Actually, you can only read part of the resolutions passed by this stacked committee. As usual, there are deep secrets that the public can't access. That's just one part of what's wrong with those people and why ODF must never fall into their secretive clutches. If it does, I have little doubt that ODF will end up brain dead, on life support, turning blue for lack of oxygen, and then suddenly, sadly, we'll find it dead as a doornail.
This was the same state Unix was in around the early 1990s. We're not dead yet! In fact, we've taken over the large computer market since then.
ISO has lost its street cred so expect an Open Source replacement. Open Standards benefit everyone, so I expect someone to fill in the gap.
Re:aw, come on, it's not that bad. (Score:1, Insightful)
Get help.
Sweatly B will save them! (Score:-1, Insightful)
Steve Ballmer will rescue M$. With his genius understanding of all manner of technical issues like antipersirant and subtle manners, M$ will surely prosper. Who else could get away with chair throwing rants with such memorable quotes as, "I'm going to fucking kill Google," and still think of themselves as cooler than Steve Jobs? It's amazing. To think he has said he would have ended up wasting all of that talent at an insurance company if it were not for Bill Gates. Where would John McCain's cabinet be without this gift to the nation? How else will M$ survive the next few years?
Re:Conflicted (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you seen Norwegian TV news? It goes from one scandal to the next. There's always someone stealing big chunks of money in one way or another.
Of course the magnitude is smaller because they have far less people, but they're far from corruption free.
Transparency helps, but there's not much you can do if you can't kick the crooks out easily. Plus, who are you going to replace them with? Honest people don't like government work very much.
Re:aw, come on, it's not that bad. (Score:1, Insightful)
Do better than what? It's a serious suggestion. Get some psychiatric help - you've clearly lost a screw somewhere important.
What is a standards body? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't believe no laws were broken in this process. Why can't the EU courts take this up?
Easy - a "standards body" is not an entity with any legal weight. All it is is a group of people who get together and make recommendations that others may choose to follow. It's purely a political process but not at all a legal one. The only value that a standards body has is that other entities (EG: companies) trust it to determine what technologies to implement and in what fashion.
For example, there there is no legal requirement that any software vendor implement TCP or IP. But TCP and IP are detailed by the ISOC [isoc.org]. If you are a software company, you will implement your TCP stack in accordance with ISOC standards or your implementation will be considered sub-standard.
But if you screw up your implementation, there's little ISOC can do, and nothing legally. They can say you are bad, they can make recommendations against your software. But that's it.
The only weight that a standards body has is that others trust the insight and recommendations made by the standards body. When a standards body can be legitimately accused of shenanigans, that's pretty much it's end.
Goodbye ISO, it's been nice knowing ye...
They have achieved something (Score:5, Insightful)
When principled people withdraw from an endeavor, they take with them the credibility they leant to it. The credibility of principled participants is all a standards body has to offer.
They are by their action hastening a day when a new, credible standards body can displace the corrupt corpse of ISO.
Good on 'em.
Many laws were broken (Score:3, Insightful)
First among them treason. Agents of a US corporation have subverted major agencies of sovereign nations. Those government employees of non-US nations have by their participation betrayed their nation, the public trust they held in their positions, and their duty. They've done it to preserve the profitability of a foreign enterprise, and by extension line their own pockets.
It's only a matter of time before this is figured out. Heads will roll - in some cases figuratively and in some cases literally.
Re:shut up, dumb fuck. (Score:3, Insightful)
It's probably impossible to get you and twitter to take your battles elsewhere, but could you at least try to keep it down a bit? Ignore the stuff already at -1 or 0.
Re:How soon people forget ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Unix was never open source until Open Solaris
BSD isn't Unix?
Re:Can the EU courts look at this? (Score:4, Insightful)
Normally, it would be illegal for a bunch of companies to get together and collude like they do at a standards body. But anti-trust laws have exceptions to promote the creation of open standards. You would think such an exception would not apply if participants were paid or otherwise compensated/coerced into voting to benefit an existing monopoly.
Re:Norway? Does that even count? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Norway? Does that even count? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's said the next Euro-war will be between Britain and Norway, over the North Sea oil.
What?! Who the hell says that?
Firstly, prosperous modern democracies with large middle classes and a lot to lose do not go to war. There has never been a single case. It is just not going to happen.
Secondly, there could be no victory. If Norway attacked Britain, the rest of Europe would stand by and watch Norway reap its well-deserved stomping from the vastly superior British armed forces. If Britain attacked Norway, the rest of the EU would declare war on them. Either way would bring utter disaster for the aggresor.
If you'd said Russia v. Norway, that would be at least a little more within the bounds of extreme probability, though still highly unlikely. The world will have to get a lot crazier before Russia attacking mainstream Europe over relatively minor resources would be anything other than a suicide mission. Russia may be a little aggresive but they're not insane.
Whoever told that to you is an idiot.
Re:It will help... (Score:5, Insightful)
On the contrary. Good people remaining in the service of a bad organisation only adds to that organisation's strength. Walking away takes from the strength of that organisation. These people tried to redeem the organisation - they protested, they appealed and they went public. The organisation did not reverse its actions. To remain is to continue to lend support to its actions, to walk away is to diminish its authority. Whilst it could in theory help if they set up an alternate standards agency, these are merely people from a national group. Unless they started organising with other protestors from around the World, they can't set up anything to rival ISO. But they don't actually need to. Standards emerge and get organised without the aid of ISO. In fact, ISO often merely turns up and codifies such standards. Weaken ISO and where there is a need, other parties will start to fill in the gap in authority. I don't think you can ask more of these people than they have already given up. I assume there's a paycheck they have renounced somewhere in this, as well a privileged position.
I have full respect for their actions.
is there ANYone to explain me why parent (Score:3, Insightful)
are there any morons among us, who are STILL saying that microsoft did nothing wrong in this ooxml scandal ?
Re:Conflicted (Score:5, Insightful)
"Plus, who are you going to replace them with? Honest people don't like government work very much."
That is one of the more profound statements I have encountered here (on slashdot) about politics for quite s while!
I hope some moderators are here and share some '+insightful' love with you.
That is the situation with the upcoming Presidential elections here in the USA.
It seems to be a choice between a turd sandwich, or a shit casserole.
Does it really matter at this point? You already know it will taste like crap!
I guess all you can do is vote as you think is best, and hope it will work out.
Another option would be a revolution, and overthrow of the existing government.
This has not worked out well in the past, as the incoming 'party/gov't.' has not planned much farther ahead than getting 'there'.
I, for one, do not have the answers to the questions that have/can/will come about...just more questions.
Re:It will help... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The right thing to do. (Score:2, Insightful)
Wow, looking at your journal, you seem to have an obsession. Who cares if someone has a couple of accounts - if a person's comment is worth something then it will be moderated up.
Re:is there ANYone to explain me why parent (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of people on Slashdot forget how many companies rely on Microsoft's dominance of the market to make a living. Instead of thinking "Well, maybe the reason a lot of companies registered to vote is because their profit margin relies on OOXML becoming a standard", they instead jump to the most extreme conclusion they can find.
there were a lot of companies who depended on the nazi party to make a living. and they did.
results were less than desirable for entirety of the rest of the world.
just because someone needs to make a living doesnt justify any of their actions by itself.
Re:Conflicted (Score:1, Insightful)
There are plenty of honest people iin government service. The problem is that the top level is filled with jobs appointed by political process, and those are often available to the lobbyists and special interests that are trying to move the government to a position profitable to them.
Re:balanced reporting? (Score:3, Insightful)
ODF, unlike OOXML, was *not* fast tracked through standards, *and* it is a far more concise standard; OOXML was far too large to reasonably be managed via fast-track IMO, so it shouldn't have been.
It sounds like ODF was pushed through as a standard before it was ready, and Microsoft's reaction was 'well, if you're going to approve one crappy standard for office docs, you should approve ours as well.'
No, MS couldn't really care less, but some of it's clients (large organisations/governments) were starting to demand standards-based software. If MS did care, they would've dealt with it some time earlier.... they had probably a decade or so time to do so.
Also... it's been covered a million times before, but DO NOT FORGET that OOXML currently has absolutely no working implementations. None. There is no software that currently implements this "standard". MS have said themselves that they will not implement it until the *next* version of MS-Office, and strangely, they have said that they will implement ODF in a future service-pack to MS-Office..... but time will tell!
The really odd thing [to me anyway] is that I believe that MS have recently opened up their legacy binary MS-Office standards. If they had done this, documented them, and pushed them through ECMA/ISO then there would perhaps have been less complaints given that the legacy formats are widely implemented and used.
Re:Conflicted (Score:3, Insightful)
i understand what you're saying, but if their membership still does not allow them to overturn such an obvious case of commercially motivated corruption/corporate strong-arming tactics, then they really don't have much of a say anyway--at least not in any meaningful sense.
basically, this incident shows that ISO is up for sale. if you can afford to purchase the votes, then you can have whatever you want become an ISO standard. this not only makes ISO standards meaningless, but it also demonstrates that ISO decisions are not made by public discussion & open discourse between members, but rather by secret dealings conducted behind closed doors by commercial interests. therefore, ISO is no longer an impartial democratic body, but rather a standards auction house for rich corporations.
Re:Conflicted (Score:2, Insightful)
People that want political office are usually the same people that you would least want to have it. Honest, smart people never want the job. You have to inflict it on them! ...
I think one way to help clean things up is to make the office holder PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for their choices and actions while in office. There will suddenly be an absence of fat-asses in cushy chairs, and a lot of people deciding that private sector work is where it's at. Of course, they'll fail there too