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Air Force To Re-Open Pursuit of Cyber Command 142

Posted by kdawson
from the taking-off-the-cyber-gloves dept.
GovTechGuy writes "Top Air Force leadership has decided to pursue forming a Cyber Command to defend Defense Department networks and to launch cyberattacks against foes, after putting the project on hold in August."
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Air Force To Re-Open Pursuit of Cyber Command

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    skynet

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by grantek (979387)

      Well, what IS interesting, is that if the US defense force is using software as weapons, does that mean your constitutionally-explicit right to bear arms includes things like nmap and wireshark? Thus far, the "think of the children" crowd have been quick to label anyone "caught" with these "hacking tools" as evil terrorists, but in an age where a DOS attack on an infrastructure system could be a strategic prelude to sending in guys with guns (in an international war or a hypothetical civil conflict), I'd ce

      • by RMH101 (636144)
        Um, no. You have a constitutional right to have your constitutional rights abused at the whim of the US government, on a trumped-up anti-terrorism accusation. You also have the right to have habeus corpus suspended.

        Seriously, I can see what you're getting at, but if you think the establishment is going to agree with you I think you're wrong.

  • Anyone that has seen the Terminator movies knows this

    Oh Cyber COMMAND... oh nevermind.
  • Where do I apply? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bhsx (458600) on Tuesday October 07, 2008 @06:22PM (#25292937)
    It's too bad these positions will, most definitely, be filled by military personnel. This would be a fun job to have for sure.
    It's also a shame that we wont be able to read about their missions. I would assume all of this work will be highly classified.
    • by inputdev (1252080)
      I think they got you - hook line and sinker... They are looking to recruit. I'd be happier if I hadn't read your post about this being a "fun" job. Why not do something good for humanity? We do not need more cloak and dagger nonsense. Write code for everyone to use.
      • by lysergic.acid (845423) on Tuesday October 07, 2008 @09:56PM (#25294785) Homepage

        isn't it funny that the cloak-and-dagger-types always think that they're saving the world, but all they're really doing is fighting the cloak-and-dagger-types from other countries (who also share the same messianic complex).

        the whole "we need to spy on other countries because they're spying on us" mentality is very similar to the saying, people who steal always assume that everyone else steals. in the end this attitude simply creates a more hostile world, damaging international relations.

        the constant arms escalation in the name of "national defense" hasn't made the world any safer. imagine how much we could have achieved if instead of participating in the global arms race, all the various nations had simply gotten together in the spirit of global cooperation to achieve some shared goal--like space exploration, medical research, etc. or even if we'd just spent those resources on things that would improve the quality of living of the average American.

        • by Mikkeles (698461)

          '... all the various nations had simply gotten together in the spirit of global cooperation ...'

          Well, that's the trick, in'it?

          It only takes one (and there are currently several more than that) sufficiently powerful and obnoxious country to derail it.

        • by Kagura (843695)

          the whole "we need to spy on other countries because they're spying on us" mentality is very similar to the saying, people who steal always assume that everyone else steals. in the end this attitude simply creates a more hostile world, damaging international relations.

          Try to look at it from a game theory perspective, such as that of the Prisoner's dilemma [wikipedia.org].

          That doesn't mean I'm happy with it, but you're completely ignoring the reality of the world. Some people won't get along for other people for many reasons, sometimes for stupid reasons like nationalism or crazy ideas about racial identity. Then every once in a while one of these people get chosen/elected to the head of a nation and are able to use millions of people's power to follow through with their ideas and t

        • by sdssds (659682)

          >> the constant arms escalation in the name of "national defense" hasn't made the world any safer.
          The only reason you are not speaking German (or indeed are alive) is that some people fought a war against them.
          The only reason you are not speaking Russian (or indeed are alive) is that some people armed themselves and prepared for battle against them.

    • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I tried before they put it on hold. I let them know that I am a computer science professor who would not mind joining the reserve to work in cyber command. After a month and a half, I received an unhelpful canned reply and have not heard anything else.

      I still think the cyber command is a good idea, but the way it is being handled has removed a lot of the motivation for me joining.

      • by Ethanol-fueled (1125189) * on Tuesday October 07, 2008 @06:46PM (#25293213) Homepage Journal

        "...after putting the project on hold in August."

        Because we being indecisive really, really scares the hell out of our enemies.[/sarcasm]

        I guess nothing is secret in cyberspace and this flip-flop is no exception.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Pichu0102 (916292)

          Because we being indecisive really, really scares the hell out of our enemies.[/sarcasm]

          Which is scarier, a guy who is usually calm and can get serious when it means getting serious, or a guy who is permanently in a state of indecisiveness about if or if not to kill you every time he sees you?

      • by LiENUS (207736)
        Strange, who'd you tell. I told them I wanted to join cyber command and they kept calling me over and over asking me to come in and take the computer aptitude test. I'd think a comp sci professor would have no trouble catching their interest.
    • It's too bad these positions will, most definitely, be filled by military personnel.

      Probably so. But I suspect also that the hiatus was due to "we've got a few top spots filled with the clued, now let's let them develop an architecture and write the job descriptions for the rest".

      I hope the ethics hammered into the better class of military leaders (and I mean West Point, Annapolis, Air Force Academy graduates) are a part of those leading the group. I don't mean the Gitmo crew, I mean the old school for whom a class in civics is not an elective. People for whom "honor" is not negotiabl

      • Re:Where do I apply? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Dun Malg (230075) on Tuesday October 07, 2008 @08:59PM (#25294347) Homepage

        I hope the ethics hammered into the better class of military leaders (and I mean West Point, Annapolis, Air Force Academy graduates)

        You think the ring-tappers* are the "better class of military leaders"? You've obviously never been in the military--- or are yourself a ring-tapper. They're the jackass political hacks that fill the halls of the pentagon with hare-brained ideas that fly in the face of reason**.

        * so called for the annoying habit of many of them of spending too much time pointing out that they graduated from [W.Point|Annapolis|Colo Spgs], and not enough time demonstrating the leadership skills they (supposedly) learned there. Specifically refers to the practice of tapping the academy grad ring against stuff, as if by idle habit, in order to draw attention to it.

        ** Two classic examples: the Army Combat Uniform for the Army and the Airman Battle Uniform for the Air Force:

        The Army spent millions working with the US Army Natick Labs and outside contractors like Crye Precision to develop a truly universal camouflage. One result of that was Crye MultiCam [wikipedia.org]. Unfortunately, some asshat ring-tapper general decided to go with the current ACU pattern [wikipedia.org] because the other patterns weren't "digital", like the Marines have.

        In the case of the Airman Battle Uniform [wikipedia.org], the original pattern was to be tiger stripe with dark blue stripes [scarmy.com]! Some chair-bound rig tapper hack AF general and his yes-men at the Pentagon decided that the Air Force didn't really need effective camouflage, as airmen don't go into combat. During testing, it was pointed out to them by the airmen testing that yes, many of them do go into combat, so a useful camouflage might be better, thank you very fucking much. Fortunately, they listened to reason and modified it to a more sensible gray stripe. Sadly, they totally ignored requests to make its pockets/collar/etc similar to the much improved Army ACU, and subsequently those poor Air Force slobs are still walking around in the same crappy uniform we all wore in the 80's, only in a different color. Well, OK, the AF wore the outdated olive drab "pickle suit" the Army and USMC dumped in '82 until 1988, so I guess this is just par for the course.

        • by Kagura (843695)

          Sadly, they totally ignored requests to make its pockets/collar/etc similar to the much improved Army ACU, and subsequently ...

          You do NOT want pockets similar to the ACUs. The ACUs are not improved by any stretch of the imagination. The velcro is annoying to deal with, and wears out very quickly with heavy use. The BDUs that the Army and Air Force used to wear were perfect in material and design. The only thing that is worth changing is the camouflage pattern.

          You really, really do not want to wear ACUs. It's not the end of the world that we have to wear them, but they simply are not up to par as far as worthwhile military unif

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        I hope the ethics hammered into the better class of military leaders (and I mean West Point, Annapolis, Air Force Academy graduates) are a part of those leading the group. I don't mean the Gitmo crew, I mean the old school for whom a class in civics is not an elective. People for whom "honor" is not negotiable.

        During my years of enlisted service in both the Army and the Air Force, I worked with a lot of academy grads and a lot of officers who got their commissions in other ways (ROTC, OCS/OTS, etc.) and I n

    • by cptdondo (59460)

      Well, I'm sure some will be civilian positions and some will be contractors. If you want to apply, start looking.

      Reminds of the job interview for the F111 fighter pilots:

      Colonel: "We want to offer you a job. We can't tell you what you'll be doing, where you will be, or anything else. Do you accept?"

      Captain: "Yes."

    • by Zakabog (603757)

      It's too bad these positions will, most definitely, be filled by military personnel. This would be a fun job to have for sure.

      You know all military personnel started off as civilians right? Go talk to an Air Force recruiter, find out what MOS it is then tell them that's the job you want. Score high enough on the ASVAB and you've got it. You can actually sign a contract with them that would guarantee you get this job (as long as it's available.) Once you get out of basic (it's the Air Force, the basic tr

      • by Onaga (1369777)
        And if the job is not available, then what? As they say in baghdad: ahlan wa sahlan, mother fucker.
        • by Zakabog (603757)

          And if the job is not available, then what? As they say in baghdad: ahlan wa sahlan, mother fucker.

          Then nothing, that's the point of the contract, if the job isn't available you're not required to stay.

          • Eh, recruiters and MEPS will still try to dick you over to get you into the roles they need (shitty ones like combat duty or flight line work) - Mine actually changed my job after I signed while I was in the delayed enlistment program, and moved my "go" date back a couple months.

            Luckily, I wasn't coming in straight out of high school and had a bit of a clue. Complained to his commanding officer and threatened to get out of the military entirely to get everything back in order (it felt so good back when I

    • by Crazy Taco (1083423) on Tuesday October 07, 2008 @07:32PM (#25293679)

      It's too bad these positions will, most definitely, be filled by military personnel.

      That is a shame. However, it's not the saddest part of this story. The saddest part of this story is the boneheaded way the Air Force fills positions... it will probably make this a command not worth working in, and not as effective as it could be. The real problem is that the Air Force, and other branches of the military, tend to treat people as interchangeable, identical cogs, rather than individuals with aptitudes, skills, and backgrounds that vary widely.

      Backstory: I actually did try to apply for this command. My background is this: I have two bachelor's degrees, one in computer science, and one in computer engineering, both with distinction. During college, I specialized in information security and showed a great deal of aptitude for it. I was offered jobs by both the NSA and CIA, and was OKed for the highest level of clearance.

      So I hear about this thing with the Air Force, and I thought, "Man, that sounds interesting, and I know I can do it." So I talked to one of the recruiters online and told him I'd be happy to serve my country and be happy to join the Air Force, but I told him I had some unique abilities I could give them and asked him if I could enlist into that command.

      And he told me no. He told me I would be placed according to the needs of the Air Force, basically wherever they felt like it. They would not take any look at my background at all. The likelihood that I would be just a laborer loading missiles (I use missile loading as an example) onto a jet was higher than me being put in the Cyber Command, despite my advanced background. And it was also just as likely that they would grab some random missile loader and stick him in the command, assuming they can "train him into it" just like they train someone to operate a radio.

      So needless to say, I passed on that opportunity. If our country were being attacked and missile loaders were the thing we most needed, I would be happy to serve, so don't get me wrong. But given how things are today, I'm not going to join the Air Force and let them squander my skills. That's not good for either me or them, because they don't get all of my skilled potential, and I don't get to contribute everything I can. So they can go find some other grunt to load missiles, and someday, if they actually acknowledge that some people are better suited for a job than others, I'll be around. But if they insist on being blind to the differences between individuals and wasting much of the talent in their organization, then I won't ever serve with them (except perhaps in critical wartime).

      • With two baccalaureate degrees you need to be talking to an officer recruiter--not enlisted.
        • by jesuscash (668623)
          Not if you want to do anything other than paperwork and management.
        • by Dun Malg (230075) on Wednesday October 08, 2008 @01:25AM (#25296215) Homepage

          With two baccalaureate degrees you need to be talking to an officer recruiter--not enlisted.

          Doesn't really work like that. You're probably thinking of ROTC. ROTC gets you a degree in (something), with a minor in Military Management. The only folks who get officer commissions based on their education are doctors and dentists. Just having a degree in (something) will only get you in as an enlisted man at pay grade E-3 instead of the usual E-1.

          • by LiENUS (207736)
            You don't need a degree to get enlisted at E-3 rather than E-1. A degree easily helps you get a commission. When I was at meps (swearing in at E-3 rather than E-1 with no baccalaureate degree's) every time I mentioned my ex having two baccalaureate degrees they would all start salivating and then tell me I should try to convince her to join as an officer.
          • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

            by jesuscash (668623)
            If you already have a degree you go to Officer Training School to get a comission.
      • by jesuscash (668623)
        I can definitely agree that the Air Force does treat Airmen as interchangable cogs, but it's based on career field, not just the virtue of being in the Air Force. All people within a career field will have a broad education over most the tasks they'd be presented with. It's on the job that you gain further in-depth knowledge. You will not see a missile loader in a cyber command type of position. There are specific career fields within the Air Force that would fill those positions. As it is right now, there
      • that seems to be the whole purpose of the chain of command. aside from eliminating personal accountability, it also suppresses original thought. this gives the officials up top absolute control over the military hierarchy. whatever they want done will be carried out unquestioningly and without hesitation. this sounds like a good idea at first, but it ignores the fact that this kind of blind obedience is, not only be dangerous, but also eliminates the benefits of having human beings in the military rather th

        • by DartmanX (1049076)

          Wow, your understanding of the military is incredible. Did you learn all of this on a cereal box?

          I fail to see how the military command seeing a techie as an interchangeable cog is any different from a corporation's upper management seeing a techie as an interchangeable cog. I will say, however, the corporate techie is not (usually) in a position where they may be shot at. If I die, the next "interchangeable cog" needs to step in IMMEDIATELY to work radios, keep the network up, etc. Lives depend on the next

          • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

            by Anonymous Coward

            True. But the problem with this way of thinking is when they try to apply it to civilians or military SMEs... perhaps at a DC HQs? Where the only excuse they can come up is "in case you are hit by a bus"?

            I went to school for 4 years (+2 grad school so far) and, have a job as a DoD computer scientist, why do I have to know how to do Sgt Snuffy's job? Sgt Snuffy sure doesn't understand how to do MY job.

      • The military treats people as interchangeable for continuity of operations. The hero role plays nice in the movies but in reality it's bad when the only guy who can perform a critical function isn't available. If you have unique skills and you want to work for them so much then why don't you just go apply to one of the contractors there?
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Dun Malg (230075)

        The saddest part of this story is the boneheaded way the Air Force fills positions... ... the Air Force, and other branches of the military, tend to treat people as interchangeable, identical cogs, rather than individuals with aptitudes, skills, and backgrounds that vary widely. ...I talked to one of the recruiters ...[he] told me I would be placed according to the needs of the Air Force, basically wherever they felt like it. They would not take any look at my background at all.

        The funny thing is, I've only heard about the Air Force and the USMC doing that. The Navy gives you some degree of choice, I think, but won't let you pick EXACTLY what you want. The Army, however, will pretty much let you choose whatever job that's available so long as you meet the test requirements. I wanted to be an intelligence analyst, and that's precisely what they gave me. It was in my enlistment contract. Granted, I ended up hopping from my cold-war-centric signal intelligence analyst MOS (98C) to Hu

      • by Kagura (843695)

        ... the Air Force, and other branches of the military, tend to treat people as interchangeable, identical cogs, rather than individuals with aptitudes, skills, and backgrounds that vary widely.

        How do you build a system that tracks intangible qualities such as "backgrounds" and "skills"? Then, how do you match every person up with their perfect job, or at least with a better job than randomness would have given them? I'm pretty sure this is an NP-hard problem, akin to the "optimal seating arrangement" P!=NP example.

        In the military, there are xxx number of different jobs, depending on which service you go into. When you enlist, you choose a job and it is part of your enlistment contract. Ever

      • by jvkjvk (102057)

        As far as the AF, it really depends on if they want you and if they need people to fill the role you wish to occupy.

        It's not like they don't do that - you just have to have something they want enough. And yes, a generic recruiter is not likely to know all about these types of opportunities but persistence and being willing to take a few tests (no strings attached) paid off for me.

        My contract specifically called out in the first paragraphs or there about, the AF's contractual obligations to give me the job

    • by ufoolme (1111815)

      I'm not sure how it is in the USA, but in many countries e.g., nz/australia/uk civilian work and are hired by the defence forces for similar roles.
      Aus has the dsd.gov.au
      You'd just need to pass and get a top secret (positive vetting), clearance.

    • by Zeinfeld (263942)
      It's too bad these positions will, most definitely, be filled by military personnel.

      Want to do this work for real? Send in a resume to iDefense. They do exactly the same work. And there are several other operations that do open source intelligence. In the modern world intelligence is outsourced just like everything else.

      Now the Air Force cyber-command is something a little different, the idea the Air Force generals had was that they would be fighting a cyber war from that bunker and that is the reason

    • by MrZaius (321037)

      It's too bad these positions will, most definitely, be filled by military personnel

      Actually, I'd be shocked if they were. This seems like a natural field in which to have a very high percentage of contractors and DoD civilian employees. Given current trends, I'm sure that the contractors will find a way to wriggle in to this new money source. It wouldn't be impossible for you to hunt these jobs down.

    • I'd like to correct this for you: It's too bad these positions will, most definitely, be filled by Air Force personnel. I'm in the Army and (allegedly) am a network administrator, and would kill for a job with Cyber Command. I knew I should have went Air Force! Now It's too late.
      • by Tassach (137772)
        When I was in the AF (many years ago), quite a number of people in my unit were prior service in another branch. When your current enlistment is up, talk to an AF recruiter. In most cases (at least in my experience), you won't lose any rank, and your time-in-service still applies regardless of your new pay grade. Unless they've changed AFR 35-10 in the last 15 years, you still wear any decorations you've earned in other branches as well.
    • by kaosfury (1276794)
      Actually, they were monitoring the Ice Games II at Sans Network Security 2008 conference last week. They answered questions and told us what they were trying to do. Thing is, they should have PARTICIPATED in the games, instead of just monitoring them. It was a lot of fun, and they would have learned some things I'm sure.
  • im in (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 07, 2008 @06:24PM (#25292967)

    and they can pay me in weed and hot pockets.

  • I'm a net admin/computer guy (3C0) in the AF and would definitely like the opportunity to work in the Cyber Command. For the most part civilians are taking my traditional job of network administration away from more and I'm being put into less desirable positions like Combat Communications. The chance to get away from TDC equipment and back into a more techie/nerdy position would definitely make me happy. I just hope they don't give all the good slots to civilians.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I'm a net admin/computer guy (3C0)... ...civilians are taking my traditional job of network administration away

      If you mean you are 3C0x1 - ComOps - that is because most of you were complete idiots when I was in. And judging from the x2's that were coming in the door as I was leaving, I doubt your field has got much better.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      bhsx (458600) [slashdot.org]:

      It's too bad these positions will, most definitely, be filled by military personnel. This would be a fun job to have for sure.

      BigDork1001 (683341) [slashdot.org]:

      I just hope they don't give all the good slots to civilians.

      Wow, you two are a match made in pessimist's heaven. You meet up some time and expect the worst together.

    • by couchslug (175151)

      "I just hope they don't give all the good slots to civilians"

      Shoot for more attainable goals like world peace, a painless Wall Street bailout, and an end to Enlisted Performance Report inflation. :)

  • I haven't read any of the news on this but people I know who are in the USAF involved with the Cyber Command said this was just a temporary delay anyway. Due to the nuclear transport problem a few months ago top people left and things were put on hold while the new guys got caught up to speed.

  • by nobodylocalhost (1343981) on Tuesday October 07, 2008 @06:29PM (#25293031)

    All they want are DDOS kiddies right? They might as well do something useful with that company, such as defending the nation instead of letting it attack our citizens.

    • by couchslug (175151)

      More like they are searching for relevance after scrapping their Forward Air Control, much of their bomber fleet, and much of their manned fighter fleet in order to become the Expensive Raptor Force.

      Cyber Command has fuck all to do with airpower, but is trendier than building and manning more A-10s and AC-130s.

      • by Dun Malg (230075)

        More like they are searching for relevance after scrapping their Forward Air Control

        Wow, when did THAT happen? I am both surprised.... and not surprised. Adequate close air support was always a big issue for us (Army) in Afghanistan.

        , much of their bomber fleet, and much of their manned fighter fleet in order to become the Expensive Raptor Force.

        Cyber Command has fuck all to do with airpower, but is trendier than building and manning more A-10s and AC-130s.

        Yeah, we--- including the Air Force FAC attached to our unit--- often griped about that: that it'd be really pretty neat if the Air Force decided it was going to concentrate on dropping explosives on the bad guys that were trying to kill us stupid Army guys, rather than playing with expensive RC planes and invisible bombers.

        • dropping explosives on the bad guys

          I certainly hope that you don't really think in "good guy, bad guy" terms. People get into the armies of various nations all for very similar, very human reasons ... much like yourself.

          Not that I mind if we drop explosives on opposing factions. But let's call them what they are, eh? We don't have any moral high ground here.

          • by couchslug (175151)

            "I certainly hope that you don't really think in "good guy, bad guy" terms. People get into the armies of various nations all for very similar, very human reasons ... much like yourself."

            Sometimes, but let's not lose our minds completely on the subject to where we dare judge nothing.

            Islamic Fundies amply qualify as "bad", especially when they are the Taliban sort. They are barely nicer than the Khmer Rouge (safely in the "bad" zone").

            (Nationalists, even though they may also be Muslim, are not necessarily Fu

            • Lose our minds completely? You're talking to an agnostic nihilist with an amoral outlook. Your lofty "morals" are just systems of social contracts that you uphold in order to gain the benefits of reciprocation.

              "Bad" and "good" are meaningless words that represent entirely human concepts.

              I think you need to get a grip. But obviously we can only agree to disagree.

        • by couchslug (175151)

          They still have ground controllers, but purpose built FAC aircraft are many years gone.

          The last gasp was naming the A-10 the OA-10 for a short time so the few grizzled FAC proponents would give up.
          The last USAF Broncos and O-2s ended up at Shaw AFB before going FMS to spray for drugs or whatever. The Marines dumped their Broncos after losing three in the Gulf War, though misemployment cost at least one of those. Odd, since helicopters are MUCH riskier to fly and more expensive to maintain.

  • by docstrange (161931) on Tuesday October 07, 2008 @06:35PM (#25293105) Homepage

    Excerpt from USAF Cyber Attack Procedures Manual [TOP SECRET]

    1. Identify Target Website
    2. Submit Story to Slashdot
    3. Call Commander Taco on Red Phone
    4. Slashdot Story on Terrorist Interwebs Published
    5. Denial of Service Complete

  • Just create a video game that starts with: Greetings, Starfighter. You have been recruited by the Cyber Command to defend the frontier against Al Quida and the Middle East armada. (apologies to Jonathan Betuel)
  • Ok, two most possible(could be more but lets roll with two for now) scenarios:

    1. the country attacking/needing to be attacked is less technologically advanced than USA.

    result: they do not have their fridges (let alone vital infrastructure) connected to the internet and thus are not likely to suffer any damage from this. It is important to note that not every person/country thinks that it is vital that every vital thing is connected to internet or even a wan. It seems that in a lot of places, if you say "hey

    • by jd (1658)

      The third possibility is that it's the presidential candidate (or president) the Top Brass least want to see in power. Don't look so shocked - Harold Wilson's government in the UK is believed to have been brought down by MI5 by quite serious and sane people.

      Really, I don't see any advantage in a cyberwarfare division - at least, not any advantage that competing divisions within the military (eg: SPAWAR) and the intelligence community (SIGINT) can't already provide in terms of defense from attack and means t

  • Didn't we do an Ask Slashdot [slashdot.org] interview about this a while back?

  • by Anonymous Coward

    This whole article is false. What came out of the Corona meeting was the Air Force is looking at creating a Nuclear command to put all nuclear operations under one command. From there they are going to put the Cyber operations under a Numbered Air Force underneath the already established Air Force Space Command. Read more info directly from af.mil 6 paragraphs from the bottem.
    http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123118700

  • than going after real terrorists. What a bunch of wimps! That's Bush/Cheney for you!

  • There's something I don't get about the U.S. Military. Why is there so much overlapping of functions?

    Why does the Navy have its own pilots, for instance? Why can't they train Air Force pilots to work with the Navy?

    Similarly, why is there going to be an Air Force Cyber Command when the Army is already working on something similar? It all seems like a huge waste of money.

    • Re:Huhwha? (Score:4, Funny)

      by Nefarious Wheel (628136) on Tuesday October 07, 2008 @08:31PM (#25294173) Journal

      Why does the Navy have its own pilots, for instance? Why can't they train Air Force pilots to work with the Navy?

      Air Force runways stay put, for one thing.

      • by Dun Malg (230075)
        Hence the word "train". Despite what they might tell you, naval aviators are exactly the same sort of jerky short guys you find as pilots in the Air Force.
    • by imamac (1083405)
      The Army doesn't share well with other kids in the sandbox.
      • by Dun Malg (230075)
        Are you kidding? The Army is forbidden by law from doing anything deemed the realm of the Air Force (armed fixed wing aircraft) despite their great need for it. No other service is specifically prohibited from doing stuff the other services do. Sounds to me like it's the Air Force who doesn't share well.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Dun Malg (230075)

      There's something I don't get about the U.S. Military. Why is there so much overlapping of functions?

      Why does the Navy have its own pilots, for instance? Why can't they train Air Force pilots to work with the Navy?

      Similarly, why is there going to be an Air Force Cyber Command when the Army is already working on something similar? It all seems like a huge waste of money.

      Hah! I see where you're getting confused. You're assuming the military is run by rational folks with a mind for efficiency and effectiveness, when really it's run by shitheel politicians. They may wear uniforms covered in stars and gold braid, but they're as parochial and scheming as any Louisiana legislator in a polyester suit. A little history (some cut and pasted from my post the last time this came up):

      The Air Force was formed in 1948 on the premise that the US Army shouldn't be in the business of str

    • by Tassach (137772)

      There's something I don't get about the U.S. Military. Why is there so much overlapping of functions?

      Why does the Navy have its own pilots, for instance? Why can't they train Air Force pilots to work with the Navy?

      Similarly, why is there going to be an Air Force Cyber Command when the Army is already working on something similar? It all seems like a huge waste of money.

      Huge waste of money? That's the WHOLE IDEA, son.

      The Navy has to defend itself -- and it's budget -- against the REAL enemy: The Army and Air Force. (And vice-versa) We can't be having some [wingnut|squid|grunt|jarhead] doing all the cool stuff and getting more money than us! Makes us look bad.

    • ALl about keeping their present day budgets where they are, nothing more.

    • by Hillgiant (916436)

      Because, more than anything else, the military is a bureaucracy. Getting any one branch's personnel to routinely operate under the command of another branch is extremely difficult. Nevermind the budgeting nightmare.

  • Other articles I have seen on this topic have stated that instead of the USAF having a Cyber Command, that we will get a Numbered Air Force belonging to Space Command which will handle the USAF's share of these duties.
    • The number, of course, will be given in hex.

      "Cool, I got orders for 3 AF -- I'm going to Europe. Where are you headed?"

      "B06C AF."

  • "Better we open Pandora's box than some other guy beating us to it."
  • Just goes to show that the government really is incompetent. First they wow everyone by showing they're aware of the need for cybersecurity (or at least cyber security PR), then they show their lack of forethought by saying "oh, this is already done somewhere else in the government, and finally (hopefully, finally) they demonstrate a complete lack of understanding by reinstating the project.

    Reminds me of how we used to treat the potential of large scale terrorist attacks before 9/11. Something major a
  • Yeah, good luck with that, Sparky:
    I held a bit of hope out for these blokes early on (the Army also has a program - which I'll reserve judgement at this point).

    Explains nicely AFCYBER's withdrawal.
    Seems they N-E-V-E-R learn. When will they get serious?
    OpenBSD vs Windows = Windows FOR THE WIN !!!!!

    http://vmyths.com/2008/08/10/usaf/ [vmyths.com]

    Sister site:

    http://securitycritics.org/about/ [securitycritics.org]

  • In my borwser most of the story titles get tuncated.

    "Air Force To Re-Open Pursuit of Cyber..."

    Always makes we wonder what the full title is

    O Sex
    O Men
    O Monsters
    O Cafes

    Others...
      Prevent Gmail From Emailing Under _____
      How Mobile Phones Work Behind the _____
      Small Asteroid On Collision Course with _____

  • didnt we just pass a 700 billion dollar bailout bill? i smell military pork.
  • Commanders do not want to expend $$$ on people they cannot command/control.

    AFCC (Air Force Communications Command): Base Commanders provided support to people that returned low, slow technology and support.

    Ex: Combat Commanders want secure video connections, Communications Commander provide STU-3 4kilobit encrypted audio.

    Ex: Air Materiel Command wanted T1 data connections to each depot base, AFCC stepped up with leased 56k circuits.

    Base comm troops now base IT troops. Base commanders get satisfaction.

  • but AirForceTimes [airforcetimes.com] completely disagrees with them. "Final word: One nuclear, but no cyber command"

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