Silverlight On the Way To Linux 475
Afforess writes "For the past two years Microsoft and Novell have been working on the 'Moonlight' project. It is a runtime library for websites that run Silverlight. It should allow PCs running Linux to view sites that use Siverlight. Betanews reports 'In the next stage of what has turned out to be a more successful project than even its creators envisioned, the public beta of Moonlight — a runtime library for Linux supporting sites that expect Silverlight — is expected within days.' Moonlight 2.0 is already in the works."
What a surprise... backhanded support (Score:5, Interesting)
While Windows is getting version 2, and the Mac is almost version 2, Linux is almost getting version 1. Awesome job MS.
Javascript (Score:5, Interesting)
With what is being achieved with Javascript and dynamic HTML, I see less and less need for technologies such as Flash and Silverlight. The only thing they really have going for them are the development environments. To see some of the games already implemented using plain old Javascript and HTML:
http://www.apple.com/webapps/games/ [apple.com]
I think I'll pass (Score:5, Interesting)
What about a Windows release? (Score:4, Interesting)
Moonlight is great but it's for Linux only. (Mono itself runs on Linux, Windows and Mac OS X.) That reduces its suitability for making dynamic websites, because Mac and Windows users don't have a free browser plugin to run them with. They only have Microsoft's proprietary Silverlight plugin, and if you're going to require a binary-only plugin then you might as well just use Flash. So I think a Windows version of Moonlight would be cool; just as many people prefer to run the free Firefox browser even though Windows includes the proprietary Internet Explorer, so Moonlight could provide a free alternative for dynamic content.
Re:Javascript (Score:3, Interesting)
oh and they are faster. seriously, games are hardly a fucking good example. ever compared a 1000 row grid in javascript to flash? javascript is busted arse.
That still true with the advancements in the javascript engines that have been prompted by Google chrome?
I enjoy the web less and less every day (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a real treat when you find a site that is static html. It's fast, clean, and refreshing. Flash and Ajax have their place, but more often than not they just irritate me. I'm tired of sites that peg my CPU and crash my browser.
Maybe I'm just getting old and cynical, but I'm sure Moonlight will only contribute to web bloat and add to my frustrations. And that is being generous and not bring up that MS is part of the equation.
I just hope this fails to catch on and people forget about it.
Flash or Silverlight (Score:3, Interesting)
So let's keep the facts straight. Microsoft is trying to push a Flash-me-too Silverlight and invests. They also invest in other platform implementations via Novell. All customers use Flash.
I installed Silverlight on my Vista PC to view a boring Microsoft developer Website video. No one else uses the software. It is nice that provided Silverlight achieved the necessary market penetration which requires marketing investments of Microsoft, the Linux implementation Moonlight would be just one generation behind.
But more likely is that Microsoft will drop the Silverlight project and then you have open source developers who wasted their time on the moonlight implementation.
you need more than games (Score:2, Interesting)
Javascript cannot be used to build true in browser applications.
You can build GUIs with it, interact with server side stuff, and you can make pretty games, but not a great deal more.
With Flash you can write whole applications, including pretty complex logic, and Silverlight is even better for application development.
Yes, yes, its a Microsoft product, evil, blah blah.. I get it. Moving on...
If you are being tasked to write applications that run in a browser then Silverlight is a great option. Now you can write one and have it be cross platform as well, that's a god thing.
The version number difference between platforms is a problem, but lets not be asking Microsoft to rush anything, you know how badly that goes.
Open Source with javascript and Ogg? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:can anyone elaborate (Score:5, Interesting)
Lists the different approach Silverlight takes over flash. It's mostly about making it better for developers than the end user.
Re:Flash or Silverlight (Score:3, Interesting)
I would love to see a bit of pressure on Adobe to improve their Linux Flash support.
Re:Open Source with javascript and Ogg? (Score:3, Interesting)
something something similar-ish with java FX.. basically an interpreted language that gets compiled on the fly and run in a jvm.
http://java.sun.com/javafx/ [sun.com]
sposed to be pretty friendly to devs and all with the sdk and open source ide plugins.
Re:you need more than games (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What a surprise... backhanded support (Score:1, Interesting)
> And if you have ever used Mono, you would notice that they have a remarkably complete implementation of .Net, with compilers compatible with the newest from Microsoft.
Except of course for the tableLayout which still is completely borked (at least when the properties are loaded from a resource) which means basically none of the GUI stuff will work. Perfect for Microsoft of course: get your foot even more into the Server market while keeping the Desktop safe in your hands...
Re:What a surprise... backhanded support (Score:1, Interesting)
ok, now after the almost troll headline the rational analysis:
Linux penetration could not be esteemed by sales figure, nor download ratio. They could try to measure it using browser referrals, but that is not the actual market share, it's not indicative of the linux penetration, as sales figure are not representative of the microsoft penetration: I've dozens of windows license, but I still owe one computer, so what is to be counted? Licenses? Linux has surely fewer, because it's free, and it's embedded in so many appliances without user knowing - one for all: routers.
what is the share of install base of windows vs linux, counting *all* installations? And using this figure, how do you cont all people dual booting, using a virtual machine or other strangeness? Linux is not on the market in the same way other os are. I have a dual booting pc, and in the windows partition there is a linux partition I use for browsing. So? What is the market share of my pc? 7:0 (because of all the windows licenses?), 0:2 (because of online browsing figures), 0:1 based on actual usage?
Re:there's one thing I'll stay clear of (Score:4, Interesting)
You mean, like this one [eclipse.org] (which is funded by Microsoft [sdtimes.com])?
Re:you need more than games (Score:5, Interesting)
Compare the user experience of loading a page with a Java applet vs. one with Flash or Silverlight. With the Java page, your browser is dead to the world while the JVM hauls itself up from the disk like a brontosaurus. With Flash or Silverlight, the control pops up quickly and the app loads.
This is one thing that I've always wondered about... why do .NET apps, even running through Mono, load so much faster than Java apps?
Serious question; I'm not really a fan of Java (although I use Eclipse a lot and I've written a few Java articles for IBM's developerWorks site), but I do like using the right tool for the job, whatever that job might be...
Re:you need more than games (Score:2, Interesting)
Every time I load a web page and my browser gives up on life for about 10 seconds only for me to see the java logo and another loading bar when it finally snaps to life, it irritates me to no end.
There's a reason I never continued any interaction with Java after I got out of the AP CS course I took in high school.
JavaScript, on the other hand, I will work with when it suits me. Just no web development.
Re:What a surprise... backhanded support (Score:4, Interesting)
Netflix compatible? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:What a surprise... backhanded support (Score:2, Interesting)
Unless Adobe makes a lot of headway with their ARM port, the lack of Flash on cellphones may give you serious reason to consider Gnash, since they're the only ones who've put much thought into multi-architecture compatibility.
I suppose that much would be any in the case of Silverlight. Seems to me it's purely x86.(and 64bit)
Re:What about a Windows release? (Score:4, Interesting)
I can't be the only one, surely. But the very fact of being free is some advantage. For example, a free program can support options like 'save stream to disk' or 'block this advertisement' that proprietary software is unlikely to support for fear of upsetting vested interests. If you don't think there is any inherent advantage to free software, and the only criterion should be how well the program works when downloaded as an unchangeable binary blob, then as I said you might as well forget Silverlight and Moonlight, and just use Flash. Its market share is far higher. The biggest reason to be interested in Moonlight is as an open source alternative.
Re:can anyone elaborate (Score:2, Interesting)
Microsoftness.
> I have flash in linux
Yeah, but Flash was created by Macromedia and is currently maintained by Adobe. Microsoft wants Silverlight to be used instead of Flash because Silverlight is a Microsoft product. From anyone else's perspective it's a solution in search of a problem, but from Microsoft's perspective they're trying to get into the game.
I don't really see the point of Moonlight, though. If there were websites that actually *used* Silverlight, other than the demo sites Microsoft set up to show it off, then I could see some people on Linux might want to be able to view those sites. But as it stands, I just don't see the point.
Re:Why Is Porting Needed? (Score:3, Interesting)
That's why you extend System.Windows.Form first.
.Net.
.Net on Windows. How they support Mono and Moonlight is a direct reflection of that.
It's one thing if the project was completely independent - like KDE is with Xorg. It's another thing when you control both projects, like Microsoft does with Silverlight and
If the funtionality they needed was not available at the level they needed, then they should have updated the lower levels to provide it so that it was available. Then Mono would only have to add anything new at the lower levels, and Silverlight would be directly supported.
However, that is not what Microsoft wants. Microsoft wants Silverlight on
Re:What a surprise... backhanded support (Score:5, Interesting)
The GUI people need to start shifting gears...
Been there, done that. The GUI people on the Linux front need to drop dead and make way for people who care about user experience, not self-glorification.
Me, I tried to punch some sense into the Gnome project many years ago. There was a dedicated mailing list for GUI design. On that list, maybe three people had read any UI guidelines at all. Not a single person was an expert in the field. Very few had an understanding that you can not design a GUI in a laboratory without user-testing.
Unless there was a radical shift somewhere - but I don't see any signs of that in the final products - GUI design on Linux is a total and utter failure.
Re: Flash tactics (Score:2, Interesting)
re: "If Gnash is too limited, stick to the minimum version of Flash that supports the feature you need...unless you're extremely advanced, that version should be available on all major platforms."
Actually, it's most practical to go with the H.264 version of Player 9, which 90% of consumers successfully installed into their browsers within its first nine months:
http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration.html [adobe.com]
If you're going live in December, clientside support on "major platforms" should be up above 95% by then.
Last month's Player 10, with its pixel-manipulation and P2P and all, is already used on some early-adopter sites, but will be mainstream by next summer.
The interesting thing is mobile. Adobe Flash Player is now moving to a single coding profile across devices of all form-factors... there will still be profiles of device capability, but not of runtime codebase. The goal is predictable capability across all display screens. It will take time and work to get there, but it's a good goal.
jd/adobe
Bacon: The reason we don't need one more format (Score:2, Interesting)
This demo works in Firefox, Safari, Opera, and Chrome. What's more, the animations are smooth and beautiful in Chrome thanks to it's v8 Javascript engine. Now we just need to get people weaned from IE6.
What the hell is Silverlight? (Score:3, Interesting)
I just spend a little time reading thought the MS web site, and it never really says!
WTF is Silverlight?
Is it some web server? or a browser? or some scripting language?
I don't get it, and I don't feel like downloading it and installing it to find out, or watching there video.
Am I the only one confused by all this meaningless marketing speak?
I mean it talks about XML and features, but never says what the hell the damb thing is!!!!
Did I miss the memo on this somewhere?