Chinese Automaker Unveils First Electric Car 341
JuliusSu writes "A Chinese auto manufacturer, BYD, is introducing today the country's first electric car, a plug-in hybrid vehicle. It plans to sell at least 10,000 cars in 2009 for a price of less than $22,000. This put the company ahead of schedule against other entrants to this market, such as Toyota, due to release a similar car in late 2009; and GM, whose Chevy Volt will be launched in late 2010. The company is best known for making cellphone batteries, and hopes its expertise in ferrous battery technology will allow it to leapfrog established car manufacturers."
Re:Bye, bye GM :) (Score:3, Informative)
[The VOLT was promoted using jazzy images of impressive body lines that promoted interest, only to release a breadbox as the final design. GM doesn't want the VOLT to succeed...]
Here we go again...
The original design was so un-aerodynamic that Bob Lutz said it was almost better if they put the car in the wind tunnel backward. That's why it was changed.
Re:Charging an electric car (Score:4, Informative)
Last I had heard they were tiered. Standard 110v was like 12 hour recharge, 220v (like water heater or dryer) was like 4 hour and a nonstandard 440v could do in 1-2 hours.
Re:I'll believe it when I see it (Score:5, Informative)
Your entire proof that Buffet has any interest in this venture is a story on Slashdot. That makes you the idiot.
Curiously, I do not share your sentiment about the other poster.
I am, however, fairly confident that you are an imbecile. [google.com]
Re:Which is it? (Score:4, Informative)
It's not really new, but it's better than all electric like the Tesla. It may be fast, but as it has been shown in the latest episode of Top Gear, it has a major drawback, recharging time.
Seeing the hydrogen-powered Honda FCX Clarity in that same episode showed how it can be done practically. Fill up like a gasoline car, be done in two minutes and drive on.
For those that haven't seen it, info and torrent link here [finalgear.com].
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:4, Informative)
I was told wiring in the column. The dealer fixed it for free even though the warranty had expired. IIRC they referred to it as an 'after warranty adjustment'. (and I made a typo, it was a 1989 Grand Prix not 1986)
Re:What's wrong with you people? (Score:2, Informative)
That puts this car at about 124 mpg.
Re:quality (Score:3, Informative)
And the Corvair and Pinto were less of a death trap?
The Pinto was a deathtrap, sure, but not the Corvair. Ralph Nader is a grandstanding dickhead who basically launched his career on false accusations and shoddy methodology in Unsafe at Any Speed. After a 2 year investigation, the NHTSA determined that there wasn't any problem at all with the Corvair. Despite what Ralph Nader thought the law should have been, the fact remains that there was not and is not a requirement that a car fail gracefully when negligently driven beyond its capabilities. GM changed the design in '65 to widen the margin of safety, but automakers are under no obligation to save yoyos from themselves when they over-inflate their front tires and go hotrodding in their rear-engine swingaxle car. It's no different than idiots rolling their Ford Explorers because the smooth, car-like suspension makes them think they can weave in and out of heavy traffic like Mario Andretti.
Re:good luck getting support (Score:5, Informative)
What's so hard about supporting an electric car?
Quite a bit, if you think about it:
1) Educating and qualifying mechanics to work on the car. Your average Joe at the gas station isn't going to be able to service this thing right off the bat, nor will he be able to open the hood and figure it out after a few minutes' inspection. At least for the first two or three years this car is on the market, you'll be forced to rely on dealer service, simply because there won't be trained mechanics anywhere else. And if you break down someplace where there isn't a dealer handy, you're hosed. A hobbyist owner might be able to repair the car, to a greater or lesser extent, but those repairs might void the warranty, or in some states may disqualify the car from street service entirely.
2) Availability of parts. There is lots and lots more that goes into an electric car, or indeed any car, besides a few hundred feet of wire, an electric motor and a few batteries. If your alternator dies, if you have to replace a transmission or some other drivetrain component, if your windshield cracks, all of those require many more parts to complete beyond the obvious part that's malfunctioning. The problem is compounded if you have multiple systems damaged at once, as in the context of an accident. You'll have to have some mechanism in place to get those parts from their Chinese manufacturers to a U.S. dealer service department, quickly and efficiently. (This is harder than it sounds; as a personal example, I can confirm that for a certain well-known German luxury manufacturer, a replacement front bumper fascia took three weeks to ship from Stuttgart, where replacing the same part on an American vehicle took two days.)
On a related note, you also have to worry about the general lack of infrastructure. Right or wrong, as it stands right now the entire transportation infrastructure in the US is set up to deal with internal combustion vehicles. Changing over to an electric infrastructure is going to take time, at least two or three years and probably more like five or seven, during which time the drivers of electric vehicles are going to be at a major disadvantage. You won't be able to charge most places, won't be able to get service most places, might not be able to drive on freeways or other limited access roads (at least here, freeways are restricted to internal combustion vehicles with engines greater than 125 CC displacement, which can't be powered farm equipment, and must be able to maintain a minimum speed of 55 MPH). Those restrictions might be enough to put people off electrics entirely, or at the very least slow their adoption. It'd be a damned shame if that happened, but it's a very real risk. In the meanwhile, everyone who bought these electric cars will be in the lurch, and if the manufacturer folds, the vehicles will be little more than hobby pieces.
Re:quality (Score:3, Informative)
Let's see. From the article, it'll cost $22000, have a range of 62 miles, and be available outside China in 2011.
This doesn't look like it'll meet your expectations.
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:5, Informative)
Deathtrap? I think after watching these videos, most people will agree you are being a bit generous.
http://www.break.com/index/failed-chinese-crash-test.html [break.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZWy_fASSiQ [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVwmuQqN46g [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEeqxq7EtQU [youtube.com]
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/22/brilliance-bs6s-adac-crash-test-is-anything-but/ [autoblog.com]
http://www.leftlanenews.com/chinese-sedan-flunks-german-crash-test-with-video.html [leftlanenews.com]
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:3, Informative)
Actually the Pinto incident with the exploding gas tanks turned on the fact that they did know that the design would result in a certain number of deaths, but that it would be cheaper to pay off the resultant law suits than it would be to implement the fix (which involved an $11 part, if memory serves). Of course, the public found out, and damages awards started skyrocketing, thanks to the punitives, so it looks like they mis-calculated, there.
So yes, I do think American car companies would design and sell a car with known (to them) issues, if it was cheaper to do so than to fix the issues. Certainly Ford has, in the past.
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:2, Informative)
BYD has shown they know how to build laptop batteries.
Is this the same crowd that make exploding ones that catch fire and melt laptops?
---
Just curious....
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:2, Informative)
Big difference.
I am about to buy (well, lease) a Hyundai.
Sorry, you late lamented GM, Ford, Lada and Yugo!
Actually I did once buy a GM car!
About 30 years ago.
It was called a "Vega"...
And,oh it burned so brightly! For about 3 years.
And (I seem to recall) about 30,000 miles, 'til it was hauled to the scrap-yard.
.
Never again.
Die, motherfuckers.
-
.
Re:good luck getting support (Score:3, Informative)
What's so hard about supporting an electric car?
Quite a bit, if you think about it:
1) Educating and qualifying mechanics to work on the car. Your average Joe at the gas station isn't going to be able to service this thing right off the bat, nor will he be able to open the hood and figure it out after a few minutes' inspection. At least for the first two or three years this car is on the market, you'll be forced to rely on dealer service, simply because there won't be trained mechanics anywhere else. And if you break down someplace where there isn't a dealer handy, you're hosed.
EVs are primarily going to be used for commuting, so I imagine most people aren't going to be that far from the dealer where they bought the car.
2) Availability of parts. There is lots and lots more that goes into an electric car, or indeed any car, besides a few hundred feet of wire, an electric motor and a few batteries. If your alternator dies, if you have to replace a transmission or some other drivetrain component, if your windshield cracks, all of those require many more parts to complete beyond the obvious part that's malfunctioning. The problem is compounded if you have multiple systems damaged at once, as in the context of an accident. You'll have to have some mechanism in place to get those parts from their Chinese manufacturers to a U.S. dealer service department, quickly and efficiently. (This is harder than it sounds; as a personal example, I can confirm that for a certain well-known German luxury manufacturer, a replacement front bumper fascia took three weeks to ship from Stuttgart, where replacing the same part on an American vehicle took two days.)
Yet people still buy Germany luxury cars, despite this problem.
On a related note, you also have to worry about the general lack of infrastructure. Right or wrong, as it stands right now the entire transportation infrastructure in the US is set up to deal with internal combustion vehicles. Changing over to an electric infrastructure is going to take time, at least two or three years and probably more like five or seven, during which time the drivers of electric vehicles are going to be at a major disadvantage. You won't be able to charge most places, won't be able to get service most places, might not be able to drive on freeways or other limited access roads (at least here, freeways are restricted to internal combustion vehicles with engines greater than 125 CC displacement, which can't be powered farm equipment, and must be able to maintain a minimum speed of 55 MPH). Those restrictions might be enough to put people off electrics entirely, or at the very least slow their adoption. It'd be a damned shame if that happened, but it's a very real risk. In the meanwhile, everyone who bought these electric cars will be in the lurch, and if the manufacturer folds, the vehicles will be little more than hobby pieces.
Like I said before, people are using their cars 99% for commuting, most likely with 50 miles from their home, round trip. You recharge at home at night. No need to build charging stations or anything like that. Even if they were - the infrastructure is already there. Every where you can find a gas station, you can find an electric outlet. But you wouldn't do that, except in an emergency, as the batteries take time to charge.
Electric power is actually more readily available than gasoline. We have an entire grid devoting to distributing it. Gas has to be shipped to specific gas stations. I don't see an infrastructure problem.
Re:Bye, bye GM :) (Score:3, Informative)
the volt was originally developed in germany by opel anyway.
Re:Your "American" car is full of Chinese stuff (Score:3, Informative)
Even the "good" Japanese companies have problems.
About 5 years ago Toyota built an engine that died after only 30,000 miles due to overheating turning the oil to sludge. Initially Toyota blamed their customers but after the U.S. Consumer Protection Agency threatened to file a lawsuit, Toyota had a sudden change of heart and decided to honor the engine warranty.
Honda had a problem with their early-model Insight having dead batteries. Again, Honda refused to fix the problem and blame the customer, but now Honda has reversed that decision.