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Transportation Earth Power

Chinese Automaker Unveils First Electric Car 341

JuliusSu writes "A Chinese auto manufacturer, BYD, is introducing today the country's first electric car, a plug-in hybrid vehicle. It plans to sell at least 10,000 cars in 2009 for a price of less than $22,000. This put the company ahead of schedule against other entrants to this market, such as Toyota, due to release a similar car in late 2009; and GM, whose Chevy Volt will be launched in late 2010. The company is best known for making cellphone batteries, and hopes its expertise in ferrous battery technology will allow it to leapfrog established car manufacturers."
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Chinese Automaker Unveils First Electric Car

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  • by seanadams.com ( 463190 ) * on Monday December 15, 2008 @07:08PM (#26126167) Homepage

    This is a little OT but I figure someone here might know. With so many electric cars finally coming to market I thought it would be smart to plan ahead even if I'm not ready to take the leap yet...

    So, I'm in the process of a remodel and have an easy opportunity to install a high-amperage electric circuit to some location in the garage. Is there any emerging standard for charging electric cars that would dictate the ideal location to put the outlet? I.e. in front of the car, driver side, passenger side, what height from ground, etc. Also amperage, type of plug etc would be good to anticipate, although initially I'd just have an empty conduit running there from the load center.

  • by Frosty Piss ( 770223 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @07:32PM (#26126471)

    I avoid any products made in China now because I can't trust them anymore. How much food is recalled and childrens toys? Do you want to be in an accident in one of these things and then find out that to cut costs, they used cheap air-bags?

    Another reason to avoid Chinese goods (if their human rights record isn't good enough) is that their industry is ecologically harmful. Chinese industry have little incentive not to polute the environment in some of the most egregious ways.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 15, 2008 @07:48PM (#26126649)

    Yeah, just like Top Gear's review of the Tesla yesterday.

    Brilliant.

    What, 14 hours to recharge? 55 mile range (instead of the advertised 200+).

    Then they looked at Honda's hydrogen/electric car and decided that was the future. Not home-charged electric vehicles that can't recharge in under half a day. You certainly need something a lot better than 13A @ 230V - maybe a 200A circuit would help things. 400A in 110V countries ...

  • by Facegarden ( 967477 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @07:49PM (#26126659)

    That high quality American car is packed to the gunnels with Chinese made parts, including engines.

    About the only thing that is truely american is the arrogance.

    Arrogance? You obviously don't know much about chinese cars. It doesn't matter where the parts are made, but american cars aren't ENGINEERED in china. So far all the chinese cars that have been engineered in china have been terrible. I remember one example that looked like any other common car in the US or elsewhere, but it did so poorly in crash testing it couldn't even manage ONE STAR. It was a deathtrap.

    Don't call people arrogant without checking your own ignorance. I'm not saying the car can't be good, but given what has come out of china so far, people have a right to be skeptical.
    -Taylor

  • Re: I have to wonder (Score:4, Interesting)

    by cdrguru ( 88047 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @07:51PM (#26126677) Homepage

    Part of the problem is that it would be rather expensive to engineer a car to meet 50 different emission standards. Nobody, except the state's showing their control, wants that.

    So why not make it meet the strictest standards? Partly because it just keeps pushing the costs higher for stuff nobody needs in the other 49 states. There is also nothing that suggests there would be one "strictest" standard.

    California was allowed to set requirements that no other state had for quite a while. In the beginning it required reworking and adjusting a car that was imported into California before it could be sold there. So you would see cars selling for $3,000 to $5,000 higher in California. Should you be so silly as to buy a car in Arizona when you were a California resident you would be faced with paying that extra amount to have the car modified before it could be licensed. So in a way, we have tried this already and it was a disaster. It might have helped out air quality in California or it might not have. Nobody really knows.

    I'd say the biggest problem would be conflicting requirements between states. If this was allowed, and so far the Federal Government hasn't made it clear that such state level regulation would never be allowed, you would have a different set of hardware for each state for each car. Sure, California could have their regulations but there would be nothing to prevent Nevada from having different and mutually exclusive requirements.

    The only sensible way is to have one Federal standard. It works for car owners, it works for car manufacturers and it can work for everyone else as well. The problem seems to be enacting some realistic legislation at the Federal level.

    Also, it isn't going to help if some states are allowed to regulate batteries for electric and hybrid cars. Not long ago California prevented sales of cars with lots and lots of lead-acid batteries in them because of the hazards of both lead and acid. I do not know what the state of things are today, but there are plenty of people doing electric car conversions using lead-acid batteries. I suspect it is not legal to buy, sell, modify or license such a car today in California. There is no reason to think that other states will be any more forgiving about toxic pollutants if each state is allowed to pass their own regulations.

  • economies (Score:2, Interesting)

    by thephydes ( 727739 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @07:54PM (#26126721)
    It seems to me that this highlights the difference between an economy based on greed - "It's OK, we can continue to stifle innovation and rake in the profits", to one based on need - "We have the largest population and a fast growing economy (and associated emissions pollution), how do we meet both those challenges AND make a profit on the way?"
  • by haruchai ( 17472 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @08:12PM (#26126905)

    I have yet to see a serious, insightful post about this story. A little googling turned up pics and data although I confess that I don't know what
    16 kwh / 100 KM works out to in MPG.

    The pictures I saw of the car look pretty nice. Congrats to the Chinese - if this turns out to be a quality vehicle, it may force the Big Three stragglers to dump some of their guzzlers and give
    us clean, efficient vehicles we can depend on

  • by Brigadier ( 12956 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @08:14PM (#26126937)

    One thing I have learned is never under estimate the Chinese, this is a country that has had a incredible GDP since the days of the silk road. One could have said the same about IBM and the computer. we all know how that went. It's not hard to reverse engineer and improve upon an existing design. The only hard part is consumer confidence and brand recognition. US Automaker have done such a good job of killing consumer confidence that most Americans no longer care where it's made cept the fact of the economy

  • by haruchai ( 17472 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @08:15PM (#26126949)

    What's so hard about supporting an electric car?
    Changing wires? Replacing batteries? How about we make the Big Three assist the nimbler domestic startups.
    They've shown that their size has been a liability when it comes to change.
    If they want public funds, they should be serving the best interests of the public - and, increasingly that means GOING green, not play-acting green.

  • by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @08:23PM (#26127007) Homepage

    http://www.zapworld.com/electric-vehicles/electric-cars/xebra-sedan [zapworld.com]

    For the fully electric version.

    It's been available in the states for 2 years now.

  • by Lonewolf666 ( 259450 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @08:39PM (#26127149)

    When the first Japanese cars showed up in Europe in the 1970s, they were cheap but had a terrible reputation. That has changed. Today they are on the same quality level (and almost as expensive) as European cars. Toyota even ruled the reliability/breakdown statistics for years, only recently some European models have retaken the lead.

    I expect that the same will happen with the Chinese cars. They may have not much experience in car making now, but 10 years from now things can look different.

  • by WindBourne ( 631190 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @09:18PM (#26127501) Journal
    Hmmm. American safety regulations that American car builders always obey. They would never knowingly design a car that had tanks that blew up, or SUVs that easily rolled, or bought tires that had highspeed blowouts. And they would stand behind them, right?
  • by Iamthecheese ( 1264298 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @09:20PM (#26127507)
    That won't happen, and this [neatorama.com] is why. Japan was forced to build robots to keep costs down. In manufacturing, there are three kind of builders: The expert craftsman who is probably well paid to do excellent work, the robot who can drill a hole in precisely the same place 10,000 times, and the poorly paid factory worker, for whom really, really good quality control is needed. Guess which one China employs? It is a fact that a part assembled by machine will, given the same effort put into QC, put out a much better product than the same part assembled by low wage humans. low quality parts=poor system reliability.
  • Re:quality (Score:3, Interesting)

    by b0bby ( 201198 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @11:12PM (#26128445)

    From the article, it'll cost $22000, have a range of 62 miles, and be available outside China in 2011.

    It's a plug in hybrid; the 62 mile range is on batteries alone, then the gas engine can kick in. It's a long way from being good with batteries to making a good car, though.

  • by JonDorian88 ( 1341359 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @11:22PM (#26128511) Homepage
    Speaking from a point of view that can see the GM world headquarters from my apartment, I'd like to think that GM has learned its lesson; I desperately do. What with the automakers shitting themselves and the local corruption of government, I'm finding it harder and harder to honestly say that I love Detroit. I don't know what American car companies can do about it anymore. With the toxic UAW and the bureaucrats blaming each other for the downfalls of their industry they are totally ignoring the fact that there are other countries vying for number one. It's shameful and it's ridiculous that we spend all our time pointing fingers instead of getting shit done. Now people are vandalizing foreign cars more then ever, keying things like "buy American" on to hoods and doors of Hondas and Toyotas. Oddly enough I take a walk though GM's showroom to find that one of their models are made of 15% American parts; the rest is made in Mexico. It has become blatantly obvious that cheap people power fuel this industry and we as American are nowhere near that willing to work for so little. I don't blame companies for outsourcing, that's capitalism and it's been our mantra for a long time. If we're finally seeing that we're digging our own graves here, we've noticed it a little too late. I just hope India and China would learn from our mistake. I think the first electric car is a decent start. And just for the hell of it: I, for one, welcome our new mandarin speaking overlords (that one was a little too close to home to be funny, wasn't it?)
  • by 0100010001010011 ( 652467 ) on Monday December 15, 2008 @11:55PM (#26128763)

    That explains why a fair number of my graduating ME class went to work for Toyota in the states. They still engineer stuff in Detroit. Industrial Engineers still work in Alabama, TN, Indiana, etc. And those Engineering jobs aren't in China or India. Toyota, Honda, etc are in Japan. VW, BMW, Porsche, etc are in Germany.

    I don't get where ./ers are convinced that India and China are full of brilliant engineers that are going to take all of our jobs. There's an Indian at work that came over from India. If you bring this subject up to him he'll explain to you that all the jobs we 'outsource' are just a step above what we give interns to do. Running electrical lines in ProE, etc.

  • by Facegarden ( 967477 ) on Tuesday December 16, 2008 @03:48AM (#26130025)

    So far all the chinese cars that have been engineered in china have been terrible.

    They said the same thing when the Japanese started making cars... I have no doubt that Chinese companies could engineer cars to meet US/European safety regulations, but at the moment they mainly sell to their domestic less-regulated market, so they save money by having lower engineering standards. If there's money to be made by building to higher standards and exporting to the rest of the world, then they will do it.

    Oh of course. I would never say that a people COULDN'T do it, just that so far they've very much not been making good cars, so new ones should always be looked at with a critical eye. I was mostly correcting the guy who called people arrogant for assuming they'll be crap, when actually it's a pretty reasonable assumption.
    -Taylor

  • Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

    Woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
    Narrator: You wouldn't believe.

    Woman on plane: Which car company do you work for?
    Narrator: A major one.

Disclaimer: "These opinions are my own, though for a small fee they be yours too." -- Dave Haynie

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