Progress On Electric Cars 594
Mike sends along a couple of items of interest to those anxiously awaiting the era of production electric vehicles. First, there's the upcoming Aero EV, which Shelby Supercars claims will charge in just 10 minutes and will be able to produce over 1,000 horsepower, powering the vehicle from 0-60 mph in less than 2.5 seconds. Then there's the announcement by Aptera of the first pre-production model of the Aptera 2e, which will have a top speed of 90 mph and go around 100 miles on a charge. This EV also features a strong and aerodynamic body, a lithium-based battery, front-wheel drive, and an improved door design. Release is planned by October of 2009.
Soon, gas stations will be replaced by (Score:2, Interesting)
Let's hope that SS's claims are true. This would eliminate the need for hydrogen cars as well (water vapor is another major greenhouse gas).
I meant too much water vapor. (Score:4, Interesting)
It's a fact overlooked by many.
Re:That's it? (Score:3, Interesting)
If you look right at the summary, you see that the vehicle's description includes front-wheel drive.
Now, the info on safety is a little sparse from my quick look at Aptera's website, with the faq saying "It will match other commuter vehicles". Faq here. [aptera.com] Safety Here [aptera.com]
They focus on force-redirection, composite body and airbags but nothing on traction or stability. It's not the speed of being thrown to the side of your car that hurts, it's the sudden stop. I mean, with that much acceleration, I'd worry at fishtailing or, like you said, having that rear tire blow out.
Cold climates (Score:5, Interesting)
The big problem with electric cars is energy storage. Lithium batteries are too expensive, take too long to charge, don't have a high enough energy density, and don't last long enough. If the current work on ultracapacitors pans out (and that's a BIG if) electric cars will become a lot more practical for the mass market.
There are certainly issues with current electric cars, but only by having them in the market place in some form will there be any incentive to improve them. Lithium is expensive, but it will come done like anything else.
My concern will electric vehicles is how they will pan out in cold climates, like Scandinavia or Canada. From my experience batteries perform badly in the cold, with apparent charge dropping off until the battery is warmed up. For me this is where the real test of the technology will happen.
Required Reading on the Subject (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/magazine/16-09/ff_agassi?currentPage=all [wired.com]
Re:That's it? (Score:3, Interesting)
Its unlikely that $40k car will survive without massive tax credits or $4 gas anyway.
Perhaps they intend to sell them primarily in Europe? According to Wiki [wikipedia.org] almost all of Europe already pays more than $4 for a US gallon, most are even above $5/gal.
Re:In fact (Score:5, Interesting)
You forgot the airborne, radioactive particles which may be inhaled and cause cancer. Not to mention The Great Smog [wikipedia.org] which killed 12,000 people.
Re:In fact (Score:4, Interesting)
Hmm, that makes me wonder how total coal-related deaths compare to total nuclear-related deaths including deaths from the development, testing, and use of nuclear weapons. Nukes have only been used in anger twice, and there has probably been an elevated incidence of cancer among early development and testing personnel, but would King Coal still come out ahead?
Re:Cold climates (Score:3, Interesting)
Lithium is expensive, but it will come done like anything else.
Actually lithium is an element, like gold, so it can't be manufactured. There's only so much of it. Therefore, unlike manufactured goods, as demand goes up, price goes up, not down.
Re:Here's what we need... (Score:3, Interesting)
I see it just the opposite. I, personally, am not fond of discovering that I have to go out of my way home from work to fill up with gas in the middle of a blizzard. I'd much rather just plug in each night and know that I never have to go out of my way to "fill up" except on long trips (i.e., the exceptions, not everyday life).
I think the "500 km" requirement is not borne of anything actually related to driving, but simply is an artifact of "lets be like gas cars!" Gas cars need long range in order to cut down on how frequently you have to deal with the annoyance of having to fill up the tank in your everyday life. When it comes to long trips, the times you actually need range, you're supposed to get out and stretch every couple hours anyway. So so long as there's good enough infrastructure that there are frequent enough rapid charging stations (fast charging EV) / battery swap stations (battery-swapping EV) / gas stations (range extending trailer or PHEV), 150 miles range seems just peachy.
Re:That's it? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yep. Batteries don't advance as fast as computers, but they've advanced a heck of a lot faster than anything in the transportation industry. In the past 15 years, battery energy densities have tripled, and power densities even more than that. And they show no signs of slowing down; check out the list of recent li-ion tech breakthroughs [daughtersoftiresias.org] that promise 2-4 fold increases in energy density. The odds of every last breakthrough on that list failing to make it to commercialization seems vanishingly small.
Re:Not exactly... (Score:2, Interesting)
Wrong.
Our electricity grid could easily support a population of people with new cars charging their cars at home, using the time-dependent charging mechanisms that allow the power draw to be at low usage times.
Remember, the largest number of vehicles proposed to be sold in the US over the next 3 years is at best 1 percent of the total number of vehicles that will be sold over those 3 years, and less than 1 percent of the total number of vehicles on the road at the end of 3 years.
Re:That's it? (Score:4, Interesting)
What, no love for the Big 3?
Nope. Let's face it, the Big 3 have spent the past 40 years advertising that bigger is better and not to worry about fuel consumption or consumer safety. They abandoned most of their electric research in the 1990's and now they're playing a terrible game a catch-up. I'm not saying I want the American auto industry to go under but I'm not going to support them until they start making some reliable cars. Currently, if you're looking for a reliable car you look to Japan or Germany, and then Korea, then maybe you move onto the US. It's a shame but no, there is no love for Detroit because they royally screwed up and in a market economy you don't get any free love.
Re:Is the Aptera road legal? (Score:3, Interesting)
It is legal, and it is just as safe as any small car on the road. It's far more safe in any collision than a bike. Yes, it looks a bit goofy, but that's basically the shape you're going to have to live with if you want a Cd of 0.11, which is what you'll need to get the kind of range/kWh they're getting. And you won't get the aptera's milage on a bike because the Cd of a biker is pretty darned poor (sorry, no cite).
Re:That's it? (Score:2, Interesting)
Everyone is so demanding of EVs and wants them for nothing. Being on the bleeding edge of technology isn't cheap.
Electric engines aren't the bleeding edge of technology. They are known to work more or less the same for decades. Gasoline and diesel engines has evolved way more in the last 30 years than electric ones.
The battery is now evolving, but not to the bleeding edge.
And that's why the chinese are going to bring some interesting cards to the game. They know how to produce electric. They dominate battery technology. Teach them how to make nice designs and detroit is going to have a big problem in their oily hands.
Re:Batteries of any kind don't work well in the co (Score:2, Interesting)
You only need to heat them before starting, and not much energy is needed for this if the battery pack is well insulated. Once going, internal resistance will keep the packed heated.
Re:Batteries of any kind don't work well in the co (Score:3, Interesting)
Basically, it needs to be heated to 250 degrees Celsius to work. The battery is very well insulated, so if you turn off the heat it takes 4 days to completely cool down. (And another two days to heat back up to 250 degrees)
You need to keep the car plugged in at night to run the little heater, which can also be powered by the battery itself. You can get this type of battery with the Th!nk City electric car, and it is superbly resistant to cold temperatures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_battery [wikipedia.org]
I don't see any reason you couldn't take the insulation and heater from a Zebra battery, and use them to package a battery of any other type. For one thing, the required temperature would be much lower.
Re:Batteries of any kind don't work well in the co (Score:4, Interesting)
No, they don't.
Your only experience with lead-acid batteries is trying to start your car in the morning... yet you consider yourself an expert, and feel qualified to make baseless assertions.
Lead-acid batteries are used in UPSes in open-air telcom buildings, even in the coldest areas.
The fact that cars have trouble starting in the cold is only half due to battery voltages falling in the cold weather... The thickening of oil, and shrinking of cylinders has just as much to do with it. And even then, if you had a battery twice as large, you'd never even notice. It's just that the cheapest (therefore, smallest) battery that will work is used in cars, so you don't have much of a margin to work with in adverse conditions.
An electric car won't have anything like the duty cycle of current car batteries. They will draw relatively small amounts of power when you start moving, and continue the draw as you continue to move. Since the draw is only 1/1000th of the battery capacity, no matter how low the temperature, they will allow the vehicle to operate.
And once the vehicle is in operation, the continual discharge of the batteries will generate a substantial amount of heat, internally. The sheer mass of the lead-acid batteries will keep the normally generated heat from easily escaping, provided they aren't mounted externally, directly in normal airflow.
Getting RID of the heat generated is the real problem with batteries, and that's a manageable issue as well.
Re:That's it? (Score:4, Interesting)
I think the primary market will be plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) by 2015, NOT all electric vehicles.
I cite the following reasons:
1) Since the vast majority of commuting is relatively short range, the all-electric range of a PHEV of around 43 to 49 miles (70-80 km) is not such a big issue.
2) With a PHEV, you don't need a big battery pack like you do with an all-electric vehicle.
3) Since PHEVs are an extension of the now-mature hybrid vehicle technology developed by Toyota and Ford, it also means way lower development costs.
Given that today's gasoline engines have very low emissions anyway, a PHEV backed up by a small gasoline engine is what will be common by 2015.
Production is still important... (Score:3, Interesting)
Salt storage isn't something that scales down well; it's used by solar thermal plants, not solar voltiac cells. You wouldn't be placing this every mile, you'd be keeping it at the solar plant.
In my combined vision for the future I figure a couple things:
1. Plug in Hybrids/EVs will have a far greater role.
2. Due to expense/savings, many/most home charging stations will have load leveling capabilities.
3. Putting a PHEV/EV in a garage will swamp all but the most extreme energy saving measures otherwise taken. The tesla roadster [teslamotors.com] has a 53kwh battery, and uses 28 kwh per 100 miles. 3.57 miles/kwh. Figure an annual average driving distance of 15000 miles, that's 4.2K kwh/year, 350 kwh/month. About 50% of the average annual usage of households in the USA(8,900 kwh/year [hypertextbook.com]. Keep in mind that the Tesla is light and efficient compared to most EVs due to it's sports car heritage and LiIon batteries. Oh, and that most families at this point have 2 or more vehicles.
A - Given 1&3, More generating capacity will be needed, not less, even if our population remains stable.
B - Given A&2, the difference between peak and baseload should shrink.
C - Despite 3, energy saving and leveling measures should be taken where practical.
D - Despite what realtors tell us, homes DON'T always increase in value. It's mostly the land the house sits on. At some point it's worth it to tear the sucker down and build a *GOOD* house on the plot. Good today = energy efficient. All sorts of tricks are possible with a new house that aren't possible or practical with an old one. But I'd put a dryer(30A@220V) or even stove(50A) plug into the garage.
E - Save the oil/NG for building materials and long range high speed travel.
Get people off of direct electric heat and towards geothermal heat pumps. Interesting tidbit - did you know that heat pump water heaters are produced? They'll cool and dehumidify the air around the hot water tank while heating the water. Cost is around a third that of direct electric. They've also developed heat pump dryers - they need a line to a drain like the washer, but use substantially less electricity and dry clothes faster with less heat. If I was running a laundrymat in a trustworthy area, I'd seriously consider them - not only would it reduce my expenses with the dryers, it'd also reduce the amount of AC needed.
I figure lots of solar in areas where peak demand tends to coincide with peak sun, wind in the appropriate areas, all backed up by a ton of nuclear capacity - and nuclear CAN load level; they're generally run at max capacity because they're the cheapest source of demand electricty going. Spreading solar out is pretty much required; in my area putting a wind turbine up next to/in a lot of the small towns would reduce the amount of electricity lost on wires.