KDE 4.2 Is Released 488
OhReally writes "It's a great day for Free Software: KDE, the desktop environment for Linux, Windows, Mac, and (Open)Solaris, has just reached version 4.2, exactly a year since the release of 4.0. This is a version suitable for broad usage, with many improvements all across the board, and lots of bugfixes. You can leave a comment or congratulate the developers here."
Re:1 question (Score:5, Informative)
I've been running SVN builds of it for the past couple-three weeks. It is stunning the improvement over even 4.1, let alone the crapfest that was 4.0
Re:1 question (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Woah (Score:5, Informative)
Go to Settings --> Destop --> uncheck Desktop Effects.
That was easy.
Re:/.'ed... (Score:2, Informative)
slashdotted after 4 minutes.
Although mind you, slashdot's probably not the only site with member flocking to the KDE forums right now.
Re:1 question (Score:5, Informative)
Interestingly, the KDE developers almost said plainly that 4.2 is finally KDE 4 ready for most people and usable. The release announcement on dot.kde.org says that this is "a compelling choice for the majority of end users", whereas the previous versions were "targeting enthusiasts".
As for my own anecdotal experience, I've been running 4.2 RC and upgraded to the final build a couple of hours ago, and it's definitely improved. Fixed a bunch of rendering issues I experienced, Plasma is more functional, Wine-installed apps go where they should in the traditional launcher and the new power manager seems good. And yes, after I installed 4.0 a year ago, I actually felt as if jokes about Vista are biting me in the ass, I really wanted to use 4.0 but had to go return to 3.5 because 4.0 just didn't work.
Re:No Critisism of F/OSS? (Score:5, Informative)
KDE 4 series runs natively on OS X and Windows. I think good willing ones will try KDE 4 and it will serve to Linux/FreeBSD eventually.
KDE has been always targeted by trolls, it is not a FOSS matter, it is side effect of "desktop wars" and even GTK/Qt philosophy, C vs. C++ thing.
Re:Cool (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Woah (Score:1, Informative)
Indeed, very impressive.
Now I can go back to using Gnome knowing it wont hog my CPU as much.
That's funny. I decided to use KDE over Gnome years ago 'cos Gnome was way too slow.
Re:Woah (Score:5, Informative)
In the official announcement (http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.2/index.php), it says "KWin only enables desktop effects in the default setup on computers that are able to handle them."
Re:Woah (Score:5, Informative)
It already does.
Re:1 question (Score:2, Informative)
Linus didnÂt really make a fuss over KDE4. That was just the media spin on his comments. What he actually said was that he found KDE4.0 unusable for his everyday use, and that heÂd switch back if it was sufficiently improved. Which is a fair assessment.
Re:Why?! (Score:2, Informative)
The menubar looks like it should in Windows. Any non-custom buttons look native too. However, the buttons to the left for "Files" and "Playlists," etc. are skinned to look the same.
Konqueror looks okay.
Re:Woah (Score:5, Informative)
Although KDE 4.1 sucked at multiple levels, I'm finding KDE 4.2 to be a whole lot more polished, responsive and light. It even makes it possible to once again play sauerbraten something I wasn't able to do with KDE 4.1 with it's craptastic sub-20 fps performance. That's refreshing.
Beyond that, it fixed some nasty bugs from KDE 4.1 that were quite shocking and it also packs some features that went missing from KDE 3.5 like auto panel hiding, which is always good. Although it still suffers from nasty bugs, things are looking up. To put it bluntly, it's finally in a decent 4.0 state. It was a shame the KDE team had to drag KDE's brand name through the mud simply because they grossly failed to manage the user's expectations with the version numbering nonsense.
Re:Future Roadmap (Score:3, Informative)
If I remember right, IE was the first filemanager/browser in one. I believe it was IE3.0 ...
Re:1 question (Score:4, Informative)
im fairly sure linus uses fedora.
Re:Future Roadmap (Score:2, Informative)
Konqueror still is, and will continue be both a web browser and file manager...
In fact, you can set it as the default file manager in KDE 4.2 if you want...
I personally do like Dolphin, just after shifting things around a bit...
Re:1 question (Score:5, Informative)
KDE was adamantly clear that KDE 4.0 was not a 'user' release, but was solely for third party developers to actually get involved and start porting, and to make a difference.
Wha?!? Please point me to where on the KDE4.0 release http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/ [kde.org] page they made it "adamantly clear that KDE 4.0 was not a user release." They did say:
The KDE Community is thrilled to announce the immediate availability of KDE 4.0. This significant release marks both the end of the long and intensive development cycle leading up to KDE 4.0 and the beginning of the KDE 4 era.
and
The KDE 4 Desktop has gained some major new capabilities.
and
Lots of KDE Applications have seen improvements as well.
and
KDE 4.0 is the innovative Free Software desktop containing lots of applications for every day use as well as for specific purposes.
I wish the KDE fanboys (and the KDE developers themselves) would stop trying to rewrite recent history and just admit there were mistakes made.
Re:1 question (Score:5, Informative)
KDE was adamantly clear that KDE 4.0 was not a 'user' release, but was solely for third party developers to actually get involved and start porting, and to make a difference.
Well, here's the original release announcement for KDE 4.0:
http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/ [kde.org]
Now can we please stop with this revisionist history.
Re:1 question (Score:3, Informative)
Im waiting till 4.3, 4.2 will most likely only meet the expectations of typical home users.
Re:Woah (Score:5, Informative)
And you can even configure power management profiles that disable the desktop effects, for when your battery is low for example. Having used Gnome for the last few years I'd forgotten just how flexible KDE is.
Re:/.'ed... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Guys are you kidding (Score:3, Informative)
1. Free Software You didn't pay anything for this software. No one paid the developers anything for this software. You have the capacity to change this software if you don't like something about it.
False. Plenty of the developers for KDE are getting paid. Aaron Seigo (one of the main developers and project leader) gets paid, and he's in europe right now partying it up, just like he was partying at Google headquarters last year for the 4.0 release.
Re:Pretty (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, because they did away with the well-established themeable, accelerated, accessible, translatable, Qt GUI Widgets, and based made up a new "plasmoid" system that's almost entirely incompatible with all that. It's pretty, but most of the features have been sacrificed for that, and it'll take AGES to get those features on a parallel, if they ever can.
?
Plasma is if anything more themeable [kde-look.org] than kicker and kdesktop were.
Plasma (especially in its KDE 4.0 and 4.1 incarnations) was short of the old kicker in features (although much better than the old kdesktop, even including SuperKaramba [sourceforge.net]) I know there are still things that kicker did that Plasma can't (multiple panels stacking on an edge springs to mind) but featurewise it's mostly there now.
As far as widgets go, Plasma does use subclasses of Qt widgets, just like the rest of KDE. I wasn't aware that this is considered weird or out of place however. (To be pedantic, the widgets are subclasses of a QGraphicsView proxy widget and not direct QWidget subclasses e.g. Plasma::PushButton [kde.org]).
The translation system is KDE's not Qt's so that works fine in Plasma. To be honest accessibility support was never KDE's strong point so it could hardly be worse now. :(
Re:Woah (Score:2, Informative)
You seem to be confused. From the KDE 4.1 release announcement: [kde.org]
That sounds exactly the opposite of what you claimed. Could it be due to my inability to read? In that case, could you point out exactly where the KDE explicitly said "don't use this, not for end users"? Because they sure didn't said it when they released it nor when distributions like kubuntu opted to ship it.
Re:1 question (Score:5, Informative)
Of COURSE it's their fault. They were FORCED to explain that time and time again because they deliberately chose version numbers that say the exact opposite.
At the end of the day what 4.0 means is that the kdelibs it ships will not run KDE 3 applications. It's a major incompatible release.
What we could have done instead is to forgo releasing until it was at 4.2 quality or so, pushing back the betas and RCs to that point.
Although 4.2 is a year away from 4.0, delaying 4.0 until it was 4.2 would have taken much longer than a year, since people only test releases [lkml.org].
We at KDE did not communicate effectively enough that 4.0 would be in many ways a step down from 3.5, but we didn't force distros to shift to it, and people able to grab theirs from source are certainly more than capable of going back to their distro's 3.5 packages.
So could we have done better? Of course. But I disagree with the notion that you can't make a release just because it's not suitable for 95% of the user population.
Besides, IMHO, 4.0 wasn't fit for developers either. Even in 4.2, they're STILL calling some of the APIs experimental.
Even if that's the case (and I'll admit I'm not sure as to what libraries you're referring to), are you really trying to claim that an entire desktop release should be held back because there is a library that may change? (Let's assume that we clearly announced in the API docs and such that the interface was subject to change)
Even if the library changes, it's not likely to change that much, which gives developers a leg up in getting started. And if 98% of the library API is frozen and you only use 25% that's in the frozen set, what's the issue?
This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Just because a release is not suitable for 100 developers doesn't mean that the other 99900 developers who want a release should have to wait.
Re:1 question (Score:1, Informative)
"KDE 4.0.0 is our "will eat your children" release of KDE4, not the next release of KDE 3.5. The fact that many already use it daily for their desktop (including myself) shows that it really won't eat your children, but it is part of that early stage in the release system of KDE4. It's the "0.0" release. The amount of new software in KDE4 is remarkable and we're going the open route with that."
or maybe this part?
"KDE 4.0 rocks in a number of ways. Whether one looks at the new frameworks (solid, phonon, akonadi et al) or the revamped existing ones (kconfig getting multiple back end support, the UI-less kdecore), or examines the apps like okular or kdeedu or the games or dolphin or ksnapshot or konsole (ok, I won't list every app) or many of the new workspace features like composite and widgets or the new artwork or
Maybe you wanted me to see this...
"What leaves people wondering about quality is that there is a disparity between our stated end goals and 4.0. This is, to be blunt, due to a lack of experience on their part: most people have never been involved in the creation of something great."
Please clarify. I'm still looking for the "not for end users" part. Thanks.
Re:Future Roadmap (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, last year Nokia started working on Qt branch on Firefox, but I haven't heard anything on it for a while. You can download a version here:
http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/firefoxqt3.tar.gz [justdave.net]
Re:1 question (Score:5, Informative)
From the 4.0 beta 4 release notes. Apparently someone forgot that paragraph in the final notes, but it still stands.
Anyone who actually cared at the time, and was looking over things, playing with pre-release versions, looking over blogs, actually listening to what people were saying, it was said countless times. One KDE developer joked it was the 'eat your children' release. [blogspot.com]
Even in the KDE keynote address (at the launch event, available online [google.com]), they talked about how it was more of a foundational release.
Several months later, they officially countered [groklaw.net] many of the points being put forth about KDE 4.0 and 4.1.
People are happy enough to complain, but people, including KDE developers, were talking about this for months in advance of KDE 4.0's release, and after. It's been widely expected that KDE 4.2 would be the 'proper' release for a long while.
It's not that KDE fanboys, or developers (I'm neither) have revisionist history, it's that some people who'd prefer to argue or complain after the fact, weren't paying attention or conveniently develop amnesia.
Who was expecting the KDE folks to pull a magical perfect fully functional release, all of a sudden out of their collective arses, concurrently with KDevelop, KOffice, Amarok, and other software versions, when they had to rewrite major portions to take full advantage of Qt 4.4? KDE 4.0 was internally in development for over two years [kde.org]. It took them a scant year to circle the wagons after a "we're eating children and releasing early to sync up with third parties and make it possible to develop against more conveniently" release to make a stable user-oriented version. Big deal. According to other posts and snarky comments on Slashdot, it's taking Windows 7 3 years (with no development libraries or early previews to target as an average developer, until Beta 1 SDK released, concurrently with Beta 1 itself) to release an annoying graphical update to Windows Vista. People tend to be 'slightly' overreacting and skewing for their own fan base there as well.
KDE 3.5.10 was released just this last August (2008). I'm not saying that 4.0 or 4.1 was a great idea, just that it was sensible from their point of view, and warned about in a copious manner. It's fairly unbelievable that people would freak out -that- badly if they weren't interested enough about the software or desktop environment to read anything surrounding the event, including previews [arstechnica.com], beta notes [kde.org], statements from individual developers, color commentary from the peanut gallery, or much of anything else.
When KDE 3.0 was released, did every possible feature and customization for 2.x somehow survive immediately? People used to be more on the fence until a few releases in.
I bet that by the time KDE 4.3 is released (currently scheduled for July), it won't even matter that everyone was so eager to complain about the developer versions when the stable version (3.5) was still available, worked, was maintained, and could easily be installed side-by-side.
Even if, somehow, you were confused about the nature of KDE 4.0 or 4.1, no one was holding a gun to your head to force
Re:Guys are you kidding (Score:3, Informative)
I don't get paid. :P
Some devs get paid by Linux-related companies but not to work on KDE necessarily.
Lots of KDE devs get paid... to work on Qt.
There are a few sponsored devs though, including Aaron Seigo (who is a core dev and KDE e.V. President of the Board [kde.org] but is not "project leader")
But all in all, the vast majority of developer time seems to me to come from volunteers. Perhaps someone should chart it someday a la the LWN.net tracking of Linux kernel contributors.
Re:1 question (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Woah (Score:5, Informative)
Correction: I tries to do it, and often succeeds. But sometimes it fails. Is it KDE's fault or the video driver's fault? When the user has a locked system he doesn't care!
The reason it works in Windows and OSX, is because the manufacturers write complete drivers. But in X11 the drivers are hit and miss. Either you have undermanned open source drivers working with incomplete specs, or proprietary drivers that just don't care. It's starting to change, but not fast enough.
Re:1 question (Score:4, Informative)
"I use Fedora for historical reasons."
"I thought KDE 4.0 was such a disaster, I switched to GNOME."
"I got the update through Fedora, and there was a mismatch from KDE 3 to KDE 4.0. The desktop was not as functional, and it was just a bad experience for me. I'll revisit it when I reinstall the next machine, which tends to be every six to eight months."
Open source identity: Linux founder Linus Torvalds [computerworld.com.au]
Taskbar, Grey Slabs, Consistency and Colors (Score:2, Informative)
Two criticisms, just by looking at it:
1. The taskbar won't scale to more than a few windows. The buttons are too wide, causing the whole width of your screen to be used up quickly. Instead of using a Windows 95 style taskbar, why not use NEXTSTEP style icons? OS X does it, and it looks like Windows 7 will, too.
2. The screenshots feature windows with solid grey backgrounds. I find this ugly. It's bearable if windows contain only small unused areas, but if those areas are larger, you'll find yourself looking at an ugly grey slab. Do something textured, like Aqua's stripes or the brushed metal in that old version of Enlightenment.
3. The screenshots feature windows in a variety of styles. I guess this is all hip these days, but I'd rather set up a pleasing theme for my applications and then have every window on my desktop use these settings. Sure, some applications have a good reason to look different, but, really, the vast majority don't.
4. Looking at the desktop screenshot, a I see an active window and an inactive window that look almost exactly the same. This is really bad for usability. It should be obvious which window I'm working in, even after a 10-hour working day at the end of a week with little sleep. Make the active window stand out!
As an interesting tidbit, my first impression was "wow, it looks like Vista". I think this is mostly a Good Thing; about the only thing I like about Vista is that it looks beautiful. On the other hand, I'm not sure you really want to be associated with it.
Re:1 question (Score:3, Informative)
It is a development release now but it wasn't then. When KDE 4.0 came out it was linked to as "Stable release" on the KDE web site with the "Legacy release" being 3.5.X.
The KDE crowd eventually admitted this was a mistake and changed it to what we see now which was the right thing to do. However, revisionist history does not make their mistake go away and I know they lost a lot of users over it.
I, for one, was KDE only from the original KDE Beta 2 realised KDE was now a dead end for me and ended up on a Mac as a result. I dislike OSX but if you're going to run a desktop you hate you may as well get simple hardware integration as compensation.
Re:Taskbar, Grey Slabs, Consistency and Colors (Score:1, Informative)
To address your concerns:
0. Two is not four =P
1. The buttons get smaller as you open more windows, and you can also group them the way Windows does so many e.g. Firefox windows can share one button.
2. I agree with your assessment but there are probably more important things to be working on...
3. I'm not sure which screenshot you're talking about, but of all the ones I saw that were linked from the 4.2.0 release page, all of the windows had the same style. You might be talking about the Plasma widgets on the desktop, which are themed differently, but they aren't windows and are more comparable to Google Desktop gadgets (in fact Plasma is compatible with those).
4. This is pretty annoying with the default theme, but you can just change the window decorations to something other than the default.
Re:For OSX and Windows? (Score:4, Informative)
KDE is not a window manager; it is a desktop environment backed by a rich development framework. The benefits of installing KDE applications on Windows or Mac is that you can run KDE applications on Windows and Mac :-) Perhaps you would like Amarok, or KOffice, or something.
Re:Woah (Score:5, Informative)
Speaking as a KDE developer, it seems that most of us are embarrassed by it all and just keeping our heads down, coding the best we can, and hoping that it will eventually blow over.
To be honest, even I thought it was a reasonable idea at the time to release early. The trouble was that none of the application developers wanted to even start developing for KDE4 until we had a release out (since they wanted to develop for a stable API). And we risk ending up being like enlightenment - where they are never happy with the code and are continually improving without ever releasing.
Anyway, benefit of hindsight and all that.. :-)
Re:Woah (Score:1, Informative)
It was a mistake. It happens, it wasn't ill-intentioned. It seems to be fixed now, so all that can be done is to learn a lesson about how expectations can and can't be managed in the future.
It's not a perfect example, but I like the version numbering for Enlightenment DR17. It's still alpha, so its releases are numbered 0.16.99xx . A few months ago, some of the core libraries were declared API-stable, so that was when the libraries moved from 0.9 to 1.0 versioning.
But I do understand (but don't agree with) why KDE didn't just release 4.0 as 3.99.0, and 4.1 as 3.99.1: they wanted to get application developers on board quickly. Like you said, in hindsight they should have taken a different approach. Maybe releasing 3.99.0 as a "KDE4 technology preview" would have made more sense.
Re:Thanks to the KDE 4 Devs! (Score:3, Informative)
Er, nuclear weapons physics is NOT pyrotechnics. I think I'll skip any fireworks displays you may be organising.
Re:Woah (Score:1, Informative)
The problem was not only that users got confused about the naming scheme and disappointed when testing what they may have thought to be the first stable release, i.e. 4.0.
Because, as you describe, the project used the 4.0 and 4.1 versions to get application developers on board, a lot of manpower was removed from the 3.5 branch. Users looking for a stable and mature desktop environment, who were stuck with that branch, only got one update (3.5.10) during that time, and a lot of bugs have been left untouched for over a year while development concentrated on 4.x.
I doubt that KDE will recover from the loss of trust this policy brought with it before, say, 4.3 or 4.4 ist out.
Re:Woah (Score:2, Informative)
... it was (obviously) all over the damn front page of kde.org...
Hm, I just can't find it:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080113080143/http://www.kde.org/ [archive.org]
And the release announcement only mentions "major improvements", "major new capabilities", "improvements" etc..
http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/ [kde.org]
Am I missing something?
The announcement for 4.1 on the other hand has been quite clear about this.