Is It Windows 7, Or KDE 4? 559
An anonymous reader writes "Is it Windows 7 or KDE 4? In this video, ZDNet takes to Sydney's streets to find out what people think of what they think is a Windows 7 demonstration. The results are surprising." Or maybe they're not surprising at all.
It should be labeled under "fun", not "kde" (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean; even the editors themselves state that there isn't any conclusion to be drawn here; "we've learned nothing" because there simply are too many factors to consider. People don't know Windows 7 or people don't know KDE. Or people don't really care at all. So; fun movie, move along.
Thats it just show the eye candy. (Score:5, Insightful)
Any OS can look impressive when you find a demo that shows off all the eye candy to its full extent. You could have shown these people DWM configured nicely they would think it would be the next generation OS, UI. Vista got good visual reviews too. The problem is when you start working with it, things change. KDE and GNOME while have a rather niced polished UI, you still need to do things the Unix/Linux way. The same with windows no matter what you do to the UI it is still windows and need to work with it.
What I find really funny comparing Windows/Gnome/KDE with a Mac. The Mac actually has a lot less eye candy, yet perception has it as having more.
Good laugh, but misleading (Score:2, Insightful)
It's very misleading, people could have pretended any OS or GUI, including MacOS-X - because the 1-2 min demonstration saying "look how easy it is" could have been a Vista desktop with a different background image, and people would be alike fooled. So the laugh was good, but it just shows how misleading suggestive presentations are, and what people truly value: easy to use, and they believe it (first) when you tell them, and get pissed (later) when it's not so as told (like in case of Vista).
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
9/10 people polled also couldn't tell the difference between rabbit shit and deer shit.
And nine out of ten couldn't tell the difference between your statistics and bullshit.
That said it is a useful comparison.
Someone who is just walking in the woods probably cannot tell rabbit shit from deer shit. A tracker or someone dependent on hunting for food certainly will.
Someone who just needs to run a browser and word processor probably can't tell Windows 7 from KDE. Someone who needs to configure and administrate systems for an organisation certainly will.
Sufficient Reason To Avoid Both (Score:3, Insightful)
If you can't distinguish KDE from Windows, and vice versa, that's reason enough to avoid both.
Re:eye candy (Score:4, Insightful)
Compared to other OS's MacOS is actually quite lite with its eye candy. Oddly enough OS X focuses more of the function of the UI more then how it looks. Every effect has a reason for it, and is used to help people grasp rather abstract concepts better. Vs. Say Wobbly windows in Ubuntu Linux which only hinders usage in order to look fancier aka (Window stuttering when it gets close to an other window)
Re:eye candy (Score:5, Insightful)
Am I the only one who doesn't want eye candy these days?
Don't get me wrong, I don't want the look of Pre-OSX Mac or early Unix operating systems, or windows 3.1... I don't want things that are painful to look at. Just a simple, quiet appearance that doesn't distract me from what I'm doing.
I can get that in Windows and KDE 3.5. I can get it in Gnome.
Vista screwed the UI, and I can't get it there (I can come close, but they made some things use the same colors, while in earlier versions of windows, they used different colors - such as input fields and non-input page backgrounds. Windows 7 hasn't fixed this.
KDE 4, MacOSX, Windows 7, Windows Vista... Too much bling and not enough customisation in the UI for me.
It's all about the... (Score:4, Insightful)
Apps and games baby...Uhh, uh-huh, yeah.
Seriously thou, the rub comes in with what the Win32/64 platform can run more than anything else these days. Both Mac and GNU desktops are plenty mature enough to deal with what most normal users would want. The main thing is now the sheer force of inertia that the Windows platform has in terms of what it runs natively.
Linux is ready, KDE4.2 is not (Score:3, Insightful)
Explaining tabs in the browser is harder, the vast majority will still shut down the browser instead of just the tab they were in.
Although KDE4.2 is showing great promises it's all but ready for full roll out.
But I sure like the way they are moving, it's nice to look at and the way they are splitting configurations like through widgets is in my view nice if only because it's optional.
But even in this demo we can see one of the issues, while rolling through the windows you notice how a video window is momentarily loosing like what seems sinc.
Now once it'll get snappy like KDE3.5 and robust as the OS underneath...
Re:It's all about the... (Score:3, Insightful)
Oddly enough the same group of people who want more Applications for Linux, are also so dead against Web Applications and Cloud Computing, which in essence gives apps to these platforms. Really other then Games, CAD or High Performance Apps. A Well Designed web app can do the job, and work on Linux, Mac, Windows, BSD, Solaris... As most applications are based on Text Input some calculations Text or simple graphic output, Web Based apps are a good choice.
Re:But no punchline... (Score:3, Insightful)
linux mojave TM
Re:The two guys' bottom line is nearly correct (Score:5, Insightful)
I think I learned quite a bit. I learned that when you get people in front of a camera talking about your product, they don't really pay very much attention to what they are seeing. If you look like a representative of the company, most people are going to say kind things.
Which to me, says an awful lot about the Mojave Experiment. It doesn't really matter what people say they think in that setting. It matters what they think when they install the OS on their own computer, and for Vista that hasn't been very good.
It also makes me question the effectiveness of usability labs I've sat through in the process of developing software for corporations. It's a painful process, and now I wonder if it is very accurate at all.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
Dude she just wants your password to check your email and make sure you don't have anyone on the side :)
Re:eye candy (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:eye candy (Score:3, Insightful)
My argument against moving the windows to be wobbly is the fact in real life we have more experience with solid objects Then Rubbery ones. Moving a windows should stay as a solid feel. Actually if you want to get a more realistic effect you should probably have the window rotate based on the torque that you place on the window when moving it. As for the "slurp" it effect is because the window is doing something that in real life we don't experience Objects shrinking without distortion it also forms an arrow in appearance to let the person know where the window went to. The wobbly window is just for fun, not useful or helpful.
Re:Folgers... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:"I use Windows iMac" (Score:4, Insightful)
It shows that the supposed problem, "People just can't understand how to use Linux" is bunk. If they can't even tell it from the latest and greatest Windows, how can it be any more confusing for them than Windows is?
Put another way, if the users are going to be confused anyway when upgrading from XP, you might as well upgrade to Linux and get off the treadmill.
Re:Welcome to Niggerbuntu (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:eye candy (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Set her up on another VT... (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah, it's the "switch user" button. Been there since XP, but it actually works in Vista.
Re:eye candy (Score:5, Insightful)
Mod parent up. Almost all attacks against eye candy are based on a false dicothomy between beauty and functionality. Wobbly windows are not useful? Well, probably neither is your wallpaper. Or the painting on your house. Or good-looking clothes. And as much as it may sound surprising, woobly windows do not get in my way, I like them and nowadays I feel unconfortable when I have to use another system that does not have them. Different people, different tastes.
Going all "eh, I prefer functionality" is like ignoring a incredibly hot girl because "since she's beautiful, she's probably dumb". One thing does not exclude the other, specially considering Compiz/KWin are remarkably fine-tunable.
Dumb (Score:1, Insightful)
What a dumb video. Seriously. I work with both Windows and Linux. I will admit I am a Windows Network engineer first so I may be a little biased. On the other hand I have built several linux systems and even Beowulf and Rocks clusters, getting programs such as NAMD running for colleges. So I think I have enough experience to make an educated opinion. Linux is still not refined enough for most home users, nor does it have all the software. If all someone does is surf the internet and write letters it would be good, provided someone set it up for them. But unlike windows it's not as easy as say, buy printer -> Put in Disk -> click install. For Linux you have to start by downloading the correct package and work from there. It is a lot more of a pain in the ass. Throw in that most people will be polite when seeing something another person is obviously excited about, and you have what we got here. A dumb video.
Re:eye candy (Score:5, Insightful)
"Another Linux roadblock gone eh."
How about Blu-Ray?
Re:eye candy (Score:3, Insightful)
Linux isn't Windows, which is apparently very hard for lots of people (like you) to understand.
I've never understood why people have no trouble understanding that with a Mac they can't use Windows software. But with a linux distro, they scream that they can't install the free* smiley pack they downloaded. This is the sole reason I haven't moved most of my family to linux and thus freeing myself from having to remove viruses and spyware every month.
*Free to install, and only US $60 to remove all the spyware that program it came with found!
Re:No need for slurp either (Score:3, Insightful)
Which isn't a problem except that you use "slurp is good because it helps the metaphor" in your defense of it.
You're quoting me? I never said that. I think the whole document/window/desktop metaphor stuff gets in the way of providing organizational mechanisms that possibly "break" some stupid metaphor. If something works, I don't care if it behaves within the bounds of a "desktop" metaphor. Or if something uses a "slurp" animation when such things don't occur in nature. It's useful organizational mechanism and happens to look good. All that matters to me is that it's useful.
The wobbly windows, on the other hand, only look good. They serve no other purpose.
A user new to OSX might find it difficult to find where a document went after clicking the minimize button if not for the animation. A user new to KDE wouldn't notice the absence of wobbly windows.
Re:Thats it just show the eye candy. (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't think it is a KDE problem.
It is pretty pervasive in everything (static in new windows/menus for a half second), not just KDE.
It is also a long time frustration of mine with Linux (which I use exclusivley).
Re:eye candy (Score:3, Insightful)
It's when the eye candy gets in the way of the functionality that it becomes a problem. (To stretch your analogy, you can never go out with your beautiful girlfriend, because she takes all night to put her make-up and clothes on.)
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it would be more accurate to say that "people, outside their area of expertise, are generally clueless"
I consider myself somewhat of a Renaissance Man--I program, write, fiddle with electronics, skeet shoot, draw, wrench on my motorcycle, play a musical instrument or two, do carpentry and so forth. I find it moderately amusing to hear geeks who wouldn't know their way around an engine compartment tell auto mechanics that they're clueless--or nerds who can't carry a tune in a bucket tell musicians the same.
It's important to keep in mind (perhaps especially here on /.) that the average person isn't a computer expert. They use the computer the same way they use a car, or a stereo, or a blender--they don't necessarily understand (or care about) the differences between models, they just want something that works.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
Right, but how many people go around saying "Oh, I never drive a BrandA cars, I've always driven BrandB cars. I wouldn't even know how to drive a BrandA. The buttons might be in the wrong place, or the shift lever might be at the rear passenger door. I just wouldn't know where anything was?" I've heard the strangest reasons for not switching to Linux. One was simply "The Start button looks too different." Yes, the start button was enough to scare them. Heaven forbid that they ever get in a car that had the gear shift on the wheel column instead of the floor.
No, the reason tech people say non-computer people are clueless about computers is because the ones that stick out in our memory are so willfully clueless. They are the ones who would get in any car and find the buttons they need, but change the color of an icon on the computer and they are lost. The blender breaks and they buy what ever one is on sale, but when they need to check their email they "Only know how to use OutLook Express. What is this 'webmail thing' you are talking about?" And stereos, geez, Talk about moving the buttons around, every one I've ever owned had the volume dial in a different place. But the volume icon in KDE is right next to the clock, same as windows normally, and most of these 'clueless' users wouldn't want to find it. They would rather just complain that 'it doesn't look the way I remember it.' I don't know what it is about computers that induces this autistic-like behavior, but that's exactly what it looks like.
I settled the issue with my parents. I told them that unless they could name an application they wanted to use that I could not get them under Linux, then the next time they wanted their computer fixed it was getting Linux installed. A nice windows-like theme and KDE, sure, I'd go ahead and do that for them, but I was not supporting windows. My mother actually asked me to pirate her a windows CD, just because she didn't want to 'learn a whole new computer'. I handed her my laptop and asked her what she thought, and she thought it was a "nice windows theme, but that wasn't linux. I've seen linux, that's where you type away in that little text box with no pictures."
Now they run Kubuntu, and the only problem they've had is that the LTS version hasn't updated firefox in ages. Next time they ask about it, they get moved from LTS to stable, which frightens them. I can't wait till they ask again and get moved to bleeding edge nightly builds.
Re:not surprising (Score:2, Insightful)
The "Mojave Experiment" was supposedly to show that people had just a bad opinion of Vista because of bad hype but that once they saw it they liked it. This "experiment" showed that they could have been shown any different or flashy interface and many people would have responded positively.
So, you explain it well, you can pull people off the street and dupe them into all kinds of things. This "experiment" tells us nothing about OSS, KDE 4, and nothing about Windows 7. It does tell us lot about marketing campaigns and specifically the "Mojave Experiment".
All these years and most marketing is still a giant circle jerk.
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't confuse the fact that women remember what shoes another woman was wearing 3 years ago in March with some sort of all-encompassing perception of reality, because it's not. And seriously, when's the last time a woman ever told you exactly what she really wanted or needed? The only time that happens is right before or after a fight/breakup, because they're so upset that you didn't know to begin with. "You should have known I wanted you to vacuum upstairs because I left the vacuum cleaner sitting in the middle of the floor!"
My bad.. I just thought you left the vacuum out.
Re:But no punchline... (Score:3, Insightful)
And sad thing is...I can bet that in 2 years or so many MS-fanbots will point to KDE4 while saying "see? Linux doesn't innovate, it just rips off Windows!"...
Re:But no punchline... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
References to Windows are one of the only times I see geeks proudly proclaiming their ignorance....It's just an OS by a company, not some insane enemy to be avoided at all cost =/
Hence "itsatrap" on every article about Microsoft supposed altruism.
They are the enemy, they declared it many, many times! The everyone-not-Windows crowd might not have a problem with Microsoft (and therefor Windows) If they didn't have so much history of UI/feature theft, assimilation of over a hundred of corporations, investing in corporations like SCO to assault the public image of Linux, claiming Open Source is dangerous and will destroy computing... Jesus, it's like a monkey throwing shit at you. You know the monkey's just doing what it does but you'll never in your right mind appreciate it.
Actually, let me make a much more concise attempt at responding to your comment.
References to Windows are one of the only times I see geeks proudly proclaiming their ignorance....It's just an OS by a company, not some insane enemy to be avoided at all cost =/
THE FUCK IT AIN'T.
Re:not surprising (Score:3, Insightful)
Gimp isn't hard. All it takes is a try.
What I mean is, you actually have try and look around the menus, get messy, try things.
I know, people don't like to learn. Well, then they shouldn't bitch when they don't know how to do something new, now should they?
Re:not surprising (Score:1, Insightful)